Cynthia

After reading A New Kind of Christian, I was underwhelmed although I thought he had some good thoughts. This book is much more structured, better written, and specific. Has anybody read it? Any thoughts?

Welcome Blinky - you remind me of Anne Lamott. She relates a "conversion experience" - feeling Jesus in the room and saying, Not THAT! ANYTHING but that! The best I came up with a few years ago is: just because idiots do it doesn't mean it is idiotic. Hopefully the boards will pick up... it can be very refreshing here!

Did you see the link on another thread??? T-shirts and buttons with M (upside down stylized W) The Moron F (not his actual initial) The Mayor is popular around here. Of course, that tempts lightening since he has been clear about leading by divine right.

Welcome blinky! CS Lewis wrote a book on that very topic - The Great Divorce. You might like it! Or, there's the Gospel of Thomas - The kingdom of God is spread about the earth but men do not perceive it.

Very cool. Have you ever read Agnes Sanford? She may have some interesting ideas for you. Old stuff, but it's available on Amazon.

Thanks Chuck! A great place for the elusive birthday gift...:> Lots of laughs!

Sounds like fun! Good luck with it!

Hey Trek. The "completely unexplainable" is where I think you may be missing it.... You just know - if you let yourself. I could tell you about "thin" times, but they wouldn't make sense to you and wouldn't convince you... they were meant for me and I just Know. The Love that Surpasses knowledge... Phillip Yancey talks/writes about using the same evidence to prove or disprove God - you can't do either for someone else. If you are looking for a thin place, try music, nature, someone you love. Get quiet. Just be. It's ok to think you've lost it... noblody knows but you and God. Be ready for "the look" if you try to tell someone about it. Go with God

Faith-affirming stuff Meek. I think this ties in with the other threads and the discussion of is evil the absence of good. When you purposefully and consciously chose love, good increased. I would hazard a guess that had you chosen spite, returned hate/dislike/etc, things would be going differently. I wish the CSers were right and that choosing love would always "protect" you from evil/bad/trouble... not my experience though.

Powerful story Meek. Thanks for sharing it. It is always humbling to see an exagerated reflection of something we don't like/value about ourselves. It generally makes me realize how alike we all are. Then I have to put down my superior thing... sigh.

I do like the NIB. It is especially interesting to read alongside the NIV study guide. I agree with BroRog about the blurring though... I notice that often and try to read chapters twice - the first time just the canon - the second with the notes. Personally, I have several translations. When I am thinking through a passage I like to read several translations in order to get an idea of the variety of possible interpretations. This helps me to see the gray in every version. I know it makes many theologians shudder, but I like the Message - a very contemporary bible. The wording tends to be very different from other versions, so it shakes you out of rote reading.

Welcome Trek! CS Lewis says that he doesn't pray to change God, he prays because it changes him. Lots of people here don't believe in intercessionary prayer... I think . I do. I don't think that I will always, or even often, get what I ask for... but sometimes I do. Listening to myself pray helps me to "hear" myself.... I try to cut off the smiting prayers and check my heart - same for the greedy ones. So, I don't know... perhaps I'm there with CS. I have experienced what I know (can't prove, but Know) are answered prayers. There is a lot of really great research with double blind studies on prayer that are pretty amazing. Many are summarized in a book called "Mind Body Health" - I'll look for it to give a better id. Anybody else have experience with answered prayers?

probably a topic for another thread, but this reminds me of McLaren in A Generous Orthodoxy... REALLY good book. Much more organized and powerful than New Kind of Christian. Back on this topic - I see baptism as a public acknowledgement of a sacrament between a person and Jesus.... like many things mystical/spiritual/worth doing, it cannot be covered in words. IMO, Aletheia - if you've been "really" baptized... you're the only one who has to/can know it for sure. Des - I agree that it seems silly - but it's powerful... inside.

Aletheia - No division??? No US vs THEM???? How... how.... Godlike. And, sadly, how inhuman. What if Jerry Falwell and Pat Robertson were the examples held up of "traditional" christianity.... WHAT! They are....???!!!! Yikes! People is people... /shuddering

Gee Jason - I always imagine looking at people and saying, "wow. I bet Jesus is proud of you right now" There are some comforting scriptures... something along the lines of: there will be those who cry lord, lord and I will say, I have never known you. The level of anger and surety I feel about the wrongness of the bush, and all that goes with him... when I am meditating.... and in a good place.... makes me realize that my fanaticism is much the same as "theirs"... so back to Thich Nhat Hanh... we are all the same. Then I go throw up.

Language again Lily! I completely agree with what you said in your last post - but for me, literalism is the death of mystery. Metaphor opens me up to the mysteries that cannot be contained in words. When there is insistence on literal truth or historical truth (which I agree is interesting but missing the point), then the focus changes from experience, from mystery to proof and arguing. In my mind seeing the scriptures metaphorically opens them to much more profound and timeless meaning.

Many things made with milk seem fundamentally different when first tasted... yogurt, sour cream... good, still based on milk, but don't try to convince a baby it's the same

Fabulous fish placement! In the South, we have some awesome billboards too - my favorite is: "That love thy neighbor stuff, I meant that -God"

"I'm looking forward to the RAPTURE. Then we liberals will have the earth to ourselves."

A Wrinkle In Time is great - it is the first in a trilogy. The animatronics is near the bob books at borders and b and N... hard cardboard, small, with 10 paper books inside in plastic sleeves. We are out of that stage, so I have passed mine on... I'll try to remember to look next time I'm at the bookstore. Animorphs is the older kids series... the library has them here; so do used book stores, I think they may be out of print.

I agree with that - - - I believe in the resurrection - - - the historical specifics are inconsistent within the bible, as des pointed out. ( I'm struggling with words and concepts here, so bear with me) To me, Jesus being " literally rose from material reality and death to spiritual reality and Eternal Life [sic] is true but the scripture that discusses it is not literally true or the details would be consistent. Thoughts appreciated - I have an on the brink of an ah-ha feeling....

Agreed des. I honestly don't understand how people can take the bible literally. (I don't mean this harshly... it truely leaves me bewildered) There are so many contradictions that even a cursory study would (and did) leave me with an assurance that it could not be true. Metaphor allows the truth to shine through in a way that is much more meaningful IMO throughout the ages.

Looks good des - Other obsessive books are the Lemony Snicket, Series of Unfortunate Events... Hilarious! Boys (especially) love Animorphs - very cool... huge series of over 100 books... they were very big a few years ago, it has died off now, but provides a great set of books to hook a reader. They are best read in order. Artemis Fowl is popular. There is a great Animatronics series of little paper books in a cardboard binder (3 levels, I think) for beginning readers. Beats Bob books by miles!!! The rate sounds quite reasonable. Good luck!

Thanks for the laugh Aletheia!!!

have you seen the t-shirt: Beer is God's way of letting us know that He loves us and wants us to be happy???