Cynthia

I like "Open Mind, Open Heart" by Thomas Keating - it is about contemplative prayer. Phillip Yancey and Max Lucado have a lot of helpful things to say about it also IMO... interspersed in their books. I'd look at "What's So Amazing About Grace" by Yancey and "A Love Worth Giving" by Lucado. CS Lewis also talks about prayer... I think "Mere Christianity" has his thoughts. Of course, Jesus in Matthew 6 - Emmet Fox wrote a great book on "The Lord's Prayer"

I read it a while ago and really enjoyed it! Father Joe makes a great model of how we should treat people; as unique beings created by God, each infinitely valuable. His humility inspired me. I highly recommend it! It's a good book and a pretty quick read.

"I know that Cynthia will say that I am preaching to the choir again, " LOL lily! I totally agree. I notice that although my faith is currently central to my life, I am comfortable with Jesus as savior (see all the other threads for ideas on what that means ), I still cringe when people ask me if I'm a Christian (capital C) or treat me as 'part of the club' because they know I attend an acceptable church. I hear christianity as a four letter word most of the time.... . Actually, this drives my sense of evangelism. I have a burning need to let people know that much of what is done publically in the name of Christ would make Him spit. And, especially, to let them know the unknown... that you can be a christian without all the exclusivism, hate, and hypocrisy. That's the Good News that is not known, IMO.

I agree - M. Scott Peck will be missed! "A World Waiting to Be Born: Civility Rediscovered" is my favorite of his books although I haven't read many of them. He was a great inspiration... don't give up hope yet Bobve! Try McLaren, Yancey, the Dalai Lama, Thich Nhat Hanh, Deepok Choprah - people are singing the same song... just choose your tune (path) and enjoy the other music as adjunct to enhance your "favorite".

John - wow... I am awed by your website. It's always so exciting and hopeful to find people who see the world somewhat like I do... glad you're here. I look forward to exploring my newest "favorite list" link!

ROFL!!! Thanks!

Welcome Carl Ok, this is off topic, but I heard a cute joke yesterday... A teacher asks the students to bring in something pertinent to their faith. #1: I'm Jewish and this is a Star of David T: Very good. #2: I'm Catholic and this is a Rosary. T: excellent choice. #3: I'm Methodist and this is a casserole.....

OOPS! Just going through shelves... the book I thought of as Going Home is actual a book edited by Borg: Jesus and Buddha, parallel sayings. Sorry!!! :> Going Home is an awesome book! So is Hanh's book, "True Love".

I've read Living Buddha, Living Christ which I highly recommend. Going Home - Jesus and Buddha as Brothers is good, but more of a collection of comparable quotes than a "book". I started A Path With Heart.... I'd forgotten 'til I read your post.... it must have wandered back to the bookshelf - I'll have to pull it back out. I remember liking it... go figure! I'm reading "Don't Lets Go to the Dogs Tonight" by Alexandra Fuller - about a childhood (not privledged) growing up in Africa during the civil wars, etc in the 70s. Really interesting!

I agree with BroRog - it's actually pretty fun to read... some of the passages sound very different in "hip" language! I think it was done in the '60s or '70s. DH really liked it as a fresh take after growing up in a legalistic, graceless, KJV church!! :>

Welcome back BroRog!

Just saw this on b-net and googled it. It looks like Existentialism to me... anybody know about it or have thoughts?

Aletheia - Thought you might be interested... I've talked to 3 different people recently who said that topamax has dramatically reduced their migraines. Hope you're doing well!

Thought this would make you shudder NCLD comes to a college near you!!! (AP) - America's system of colleges and universities is famously decentralized, producing experimentation and variety, but making it hard to tackle big-picture issues such as access and affordability on a national scale. On Monday, Education Secretary Margaret Spellings planned to announce a major initiative to address that problem: a commission charged with developing "a comprehensive national strategy for post-secondary education," according to remarks in an advance copy of a speech she planned to deliver at the University of North Carolina at Charlotte. The commission will be led by Charles Miller, former chairman of the board of regents of the University of Texas system. In her first months on the job, Spellings has focused largely on the No Child Left Behind Act for K-12 and more recently on Hurricane Katrina. But while the federal government accounts for less than 10 percent of K-12 spending, it generates about one-third of spending on higher ed, through research grants and the Education Department's financial aid programs. Spellings said she was "not advocating a bigger role for the federal government in higher education" but said the country "needs a coordinated approach to meet rising enrollment numbers and new economic demands." Spellings outlined the commission's instructions only generally, saying it would tackle issues like affordability and how well colleges prepare students for the global economy. The commission will also likely focus on a concern Spellings has expressed frequently: the lack of solid information about what colleges are and are not doing well. Last week, Spellings told The Associated Press how hard it was to find good information to help her daughter, now a college freshman, compare schools. "As you know, higher ed is not famous for its transparency," she said. The announcement comes amid growing concerns that the relative independence of American colleges and universities - though a strength in many respects - can also be a disadvantage in competing with other countries. "We absolutely need (the commission)," said David Longanecker, executive director of the Western Interstate Commission for Higher Education who served in the Clinton administration. "I think it's very important that we raise to a national level and a federal level a discussion about what's happening to our competitiveness." The Higher Education Act making its way through Congress is focused on narrow issues of efficiency in financial aid, and not large national problems like low graduation rates, he said. "None of the countries we would like to compare ourselves to or think we're better than have as many students drop out college," Longanecker said. The commission is expected to make recommendations by next August 1. Members include North Carolina Gov. Jim Hunt; David Ward, president of the American Council on Education; and Jonathan Grayer, chairman and CEO of education and test-prep company Kaplan. ___ On the Net: Education Department: http://www.ed.gov

I think that you have to be true to yourself. In other words, First, remember what you are doing there - teaching kids - and do that to the best of your ability; with love and compassion and hope that you are setting a standard for the next generation and anyone else observing... (futile, but we all need hope!) Second, observe... quietly. The less you talk and the better you do your job, the more people will listen when you do weigh in. People who rant all the time, no matter how appropriately, are usually ignored when real decisions are made. Third, see the real issues of the difficult people you deal with. There is process (underlying meaning and emotion) vs. content (meaning of the words spoken) in all interactions. Much of the time people who are controlling are deeply afraid. If this person is incompetent, she probably knows it. She is afraid others will see and she will be... whatever - out of a job, laughed at, etc. So, be like Jesus. Help her. Be compassionate. It is hard to be in a job for which you are not qualified (yes, I know she should ethically quit :>) ; try not to judge, just help. Try again. Be unfailingly (LOL) kind, compassionate, and thoughtful. Breathe. Pray for strength. Perhaps this is a time of progressive christian discipline for you. Perhaps this is a chance to "witness" what authentic faith looks like. Then come here and rant... we'll listen and laugh with you! Good luck!

Amen Lily. Preaching to the choir... not that I object. :> Some of us make choices like working less, not charging people for services they need and can't pay for, driving hybrids, volunteering, and living moderately and with responsibility.... it is frustrating to me too. Trying to discuss doing business honestly even if you lose money, good stewardship, or any level of social responsibility just earns "the look", and silence. Over the last few days I've seen diehard republicans who think w can do no wrong start to question things... it's not an answer, but it is a start. I did hear a few positive stories ... Domino's Sugar - paying an employee 40 hrs a week (I don't know his level - but it is hourly); Capital One - just bought a bank in LA and TX - moving New Orleans area employees to Shreveport with jobs, pay, and housing; I usually have little positive to say about corporations. CS Lewis talks about the little choices we make every day that skew our individual worlds to the positive or negative and influence all the choices we will have. This board - at least in words - seems to me to be a group of people who are trying to live up to their beliefs. We set an example by doing that... to show other people that it is possible to be honest, to do the right thing, to be genuinely altruistic. It's a pebble in the ocean. Maybe (yeesh!) Michael Jackson sets the tune with the old song, "Man in the Mirror" Godspeed.

You're right lily, I wasn't suggesting a glamorous approach or a quick fix... the reality, in my eyes, is that people are pretty much just like the people written about in the old testament... they're not likely to change. Seeing the good side of people motivated by a crisis gives me some hope... I was just trying to share it. While most people will go back to their workaday lives in a few weeks, some will not. The way people are treated now will have a lasting impact on their lives in many ways. I don't have much, if any, control over the big issues. I can make sure that I cross the paths of people who need help and act in accordance with my beliefs. It's the little things that count. Ex. rims - probably seem meaningless to your employer - clearly they set a tone for the company and anything else she does.... I do think that the current government has made things much worse. I'm sure you have a better grasp of the details of this on the Gulf Coast than I do, but it is.

Lily - the level of exposure is horrifying... but nothing most of us didn't know re: the current government. On the other hand, don't sit and watch. Do something. I spent 5 hours at my church tonight. It was the most awesome and inspiring thing I have seen in a long time. It is a big church, we are serving dinner from Wed until it is no longer needed, every night, free (good, real food) to anyone who is displaced. The church looks like a mall. Donations of food (ready to eat for other meals), clothing, toiletries, toys, etc is astonishing. Huge numbers of volunteers were there to listen, help people find clothing (volunteers sorted all the donations), play with kids, serve food, find housing, Drs writing perscriptions, money, gift cards, etc. It's the body of Christ moving hands, feet, and hearts. Target Stores are being extremely generous. Our city has over 10,000 refugees and counting... the schools are opening up, churches, civic groups, and even local government have really stepped up to help people. Personally, it is such a joy/relief/comfort to see people acting well/honorably/with interest in others. Perhaps this tragedy will serve to shake us, as a nation, out of our apathy, materialism, and self-involvement.... Lord hear our prayers.

Sissy - you seem to be open to ideas and "seeking", this is just a place to talk to other people about God, ideas and thoughts that many of us find hard to discuss in the real world ... There's always hope.... and we all need Grace. Welcome.

In the end you'll realize that it never was between you and them. It was always just between you and God. (paraphrased from quote in Calcutta on Mother Teresa's orphanage) Seeking/Sissy - God is big. You don't have to "choose sides", or DO anything.... glad you feel welcome here. It's a good place for questions and thoughtful, respectful replies regardless of the answers that work for you. Godspeed

The Great Divorce by CS Lewis is a fictional account of heaven/hell and peoples' unperceived ability to choose. Great book, explains this topic well - very humbling.

Hmmm.... I think ending up "in the right place", synergy, or whatever - which I actually believe in, more from experience (!!!) than theology, requires an openness and is not inconsistent with free will. In my life, many of the major variables have been determined by what seemed like chance occurences at the time and, in retrospect, look like open doors. Mostly, they are not things I would have or could have planned (and I used to be very into planning). Random-seeming, but with far-reaching consequences or anticedents :> For example, if you've been looking for a teaching job for 3 years... don't grasp... be a little Buddhist :>.... meditate, look around, be open, get in sync, in the dharma, be guided by the holy spirit (ok, I still like ghost :>). God only knows what is out there for you . For me, when I say something along the lines of, "ok - just give me a hint, I'll go with the plan (but I hate blind corners!)", there's a peace, a decrease in grasping, a trust (sometimes effortful!), and things start to move. Deepok Choprah writes explicitly about this... some of his books got too commercial, but there is much worth reading. Despite the horrendous title (which kept it, a gift, on my shelf for about 10 years!!!) "The Seven Spiritual Laws of Success" may be helpful to you about now. Back to your question, if God is in control And people have free will, then they can choose whether or not to go along. It seems, from Jung to the Dalai Lama, that many of the same choices will be yours again in one form or another.... . There is a great saying, "God will tap you with a feather, then he starts throwing bricks" - sorry, I don't know who to attribute it to! Sorry this is rambling... experience is not easily put into words. I know it's not easy to work for something and then get stuck. Compassion, living with no regrets, meditation, mindfulness, love, trust..... that's what religion boils down to, for me, in real life... In my experience, God will show up - but, like Aslan, he's good, but not safe or tame.... so hold on!!! Godspeed

Yeesh! I knew he was a nutcase... I just had no idea he was so all-fired clear about it for so long!!!!! Where's a 72 hour hold when you need one??? (apparently in 1985)

Is Joel Osteen considered liberal? I thought he was more conservative and prosperity minded??????????

"As for as anabaptists not being progressive? Not true. The first gay wedding I went to was in a Baptist church and one of the most progressive "churches" I went to was a Mennonite church! As individual congregations both of these were more progressive than the UCC I attend now" I think the actual lines drawn by denominations are getting pretty blurry! Around here, (South) all Baptists get a conservative label.... much more related to the last 10-15 years of the Southern Baptist Convention than to anything else. It seems to me that denominations are not scriptural... "neither Jew nor Greek..." the nondenominational community churches seem to be growing more popular. Less pressure for everyone to believe exactly the same thing... or perhaps, just less education... any thoughts???