Cynthia

Well-stated Fred!!!!

I am, however, ultimately not convinced that awareness itself can be described completely in terms of side-effects of neurochemical processes. At the same time, I also don't believe that awareness is some sort of elan vital that is added to an otherwise unaware heap of matter. So God created humankind in his image, in the image of God he created them; male and female he created them. God blessed them and God said to them... (Genesis 1:27-28 NISB) Perhaps it's a quantum leap ( couldn't resist) from your discussion, but the 2 previous posts made me think of this passage. Humankind is the only thing God made in Genesis 1 that He blessed and/or spoke to. In Genesis 2: the Lord God formed man from the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and the man became a living being (Genesis 2:7-8 NISB) Again, the only thing that was breathed into was man. These have always struck me as a metaphor for consciousness. Any thoughts???

Happy Happy BirthdayMystic !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Hey Jerry, it's been a veddy long day, but I didn't want to ignore your question. When I wrote "I think He has choices", I meant that, IMO, God is not limited. He can do whatever He wants, whenever, however, etc. Much like we can... "made in our image" and all As far as effective prayer goes.... hmmm... I think that you can ask for anything. The things you are most likely to get clear answers on are the intangibles - peace, joy, letting go, compassion. The things that Really count. A job, someone's health, money, a change in someone else may fit into the puzzle differently and be less likely to/amenable to change without consequences. (Remember the song, "sometimes I thank God for unanswered prayers; just remember when you're talking to the man upstairs; just because He doesn't answer doesn't mean He don't care; some of God's greatest gifts are unanswered prayers") Perhaps (thinking as I write), when we ask for things that are bringing us towards God???? On the other hand, I think that specific prayer is worthwhile. As CS Lewis says, it changes us if not the object of prayer. But (yes, I'm an octopus tonight... lots of hands) it a specific prayer might be answered. I think this all fits with quantum theory and interconnectedness. Everything fits together in a way God understands (or so I choose to believe ) but in a way that is beyond our comprehension, grasp, and scope. Remember that old credo??? Whether or not it is clear to you, no doubt the universe is unfolding as it should. Hits me where I live!!! Try reading 2nd Esdras in the Apocrypha... it made this clear to me in a less rambling way! (The apocrypha is after the OT in Catholic bibles - it means questioned books) /ok, quoting country songs... clearly past my bedtime!!!

I really wanted to like it.... Bring back Joan of Arcadia!!!

while we're on blond jokes: A blond goes to the Dr and says, "Doc, I hurt all over. No matter where I touch myself, I hurt" The Dr. is puzzled and asks her to show him. The blond touches her arm: "ouch", touches her face:"ouch", touches her leg:"ouch". The Dr says, "I know what the problem is." The blond waits expectantly..... "Your finger is broken"

This is the week's focus on www.sacredspace.ie - a website run by monks in Ireland. There is a good guided daily meditation as well as a neat one for kids. "This week sees the start of the Octave of prayer for church unity. It has taken us centuries of misunderstandings to reach the point where Christian churches can dare to do that most obvious thing: pray together. Images like those of John Paul II praying in Canterbury with its Archbishop, or gathering the faith-leaders of the world in Assisi, have taught us so much. When we come close to those of other traditions, and know something of their riches, we can be grateful for the extraordinary fullness of Catholic tradition, and at the same time marvel at the uprightness of Presbyterians, the Friends' passion for peace, the openness of Hindus, the devotion of Moslems. This is the week when we ask our God to warm our hearts to take in all his children. If the chance arises, it is the week when we should pray with strangers, remembering St Peter's words (Acts 10,14): The truth I have come to realise is that God does not have favourites, but that anyone of any nationality who does what is right and fears God is acceptable to him." I don't hear Acts 10,14 quoted much... I think I'll have to start!!! The heart of progressive faith, to me is contained within that verse. Any thoughts?

I see God as including us, but being more than the sum of people/earth/etc. The more I learn about God experientially and intellectually, the more convinced I become of His limitlessness. I don't think we have the perspective to understand why God answers some prayers and not, seemingly, others. Imagine seeing the world across time from beginning to end.... imagine our limited view. We can't understand God but we can trust Him. I don't mean to discount the importance of acting in the world in accordance with our beliefs. I think that God does use us all, all the time. I just think He has choices. God is big. He won't fit in any boxes we create.

I think it involves fear. If white is good and black is bad, or vice versa, then you can know how to be safe. If I am a fundamentalist and believe that I know all the rules for getting "saved", then I'm safe. If the answers aren't that easy and you don't really know what you get points for, then I'm not safe. And, back to the human nature thing, what if somebody I don't agree with gets to go to heaven??? Clearly, NOT Fair!!! I think the crux is that in the West, we don't like to do things that don't have an end point. Deciding to believe, going to church, etc are discrete events. Do it, done. Being spiritual, all the time, even in your thoughts as we (IMO) are called by the gospels is a much more Eastern concept. No end, eternal vigilance.... hard.

Ok, so I want a jet pack too!!!! But, you know you would see a star and head for it instead of just floating... Then, suddenly sucked into a Black Hole, and, perhaps then things would be clear... or just dark.... or dense.........

Cool insights Maggie! Thanks for sharing. I saw a quote from Carl Jung the other day that your post reminded me of... "Everything that irritates us about others can lead us to an understanding of ourselves." Harsh.... but I find it to be true of myself. That speck and plank thing again!!! And... Grey is beautiful.

Some friends of mine who are conservative, orthodox Jews see the kosher laws as a path to mindfulness. By being constantly "inconvenienced", they are reminded of their quest to be people of God, to follow his path, and not to get caught up in the "world" or just the day to day stuff that distracts us. That makes a lot of sense to me. When I practice lent I notice the same sort of thing. To keep it from being negative, we enjoy the Sundays off (generally standard practice, I believe???). So, during the week we remember the sacrifices God makes for us - to me, His mercy, Grace, and Love for me despite all... ( ) with a small sacrifice of something I want. (sugar & flour) It makes me think of God more often and to be more mindful. I am more peaceful during lent and don't get as caught up in stuff that doesn't matter. Then, on Sunday, (we call it God is Good Day), I make brownies for breakfast! God gave us sugar because He loves us. It makes it clear. I think that doing this has made me more aware of all the things in the world that give me great pleasure - nature, hot showers, touch, sound.... He didn't have to make the world beautiful to us.... it's a constant reminder of His love.

"I also find it hard to do. I don't think it is entirely a bad thing so long as we don't get set in our ways. I have found at different times in life I needed God in a certain way. After getting through whatever struggle that was then my view of God could change and be more open" Agreed October and Jerry! I take comfort in knowing that over time, my view of God (along with so many other things) has changed considerably... that has earned me the ability to take myself less seriously and know that my dearly held concepts today may not fit me next year. God is big - we'll never be able to hold all concepts of Him in ourselves... fortunately, we have each other to remind us of the other parts! If you meet the Buddha on the road, kill him.

"I think CS Lewis is subversive in the best sense of that word. like Christ was subversive. like I try to be" Agreed Mystic!!! October - try Great Divorce or Screwtape Letters.... I don't see the sexism and I've read a lot of his stuff If you're sensitized to it, you might consider his time and culture. Most of his writing were during WWII in England. I'd focus on what he has to say though... even if he is "sexist" he had a lot of valuable thoughts!!! :>

Ok, I'm about to go out of town, but I can't resist this! What is your favorite of the 7 deadly sins? Here's Fred's list for starters. Superbia: Pride Invidia: Envy/Jealousy Ira: Anger/Wrath Avaritia: Avarice/Greed Acadia: Sloth/Laziness Gula: Gluttony Luxuria: Lust Mine are gluttony and sloth in that order. Gluttony must come first or I wouldn't have the initiative to get up and find food before slugging out. How about you all???????? Are these better or worse than the currently popular sins to despise?????????????????????

Sure! Why not?!?! Can we have coffee instead of Kool Aid???? Fair warning that I tend to be a bit difficult as a follower... I'm not very good at it....

How about Child of God???? You're welcome here. Don't let anybody hang a sign on you! Like most of us, you won't fit in a neat category.... it's a common affliction of humans vs widgets. Very annoying to the categorizing!!!

My personal (un)favorite is that you can't be a christian if you don't agree with Bush. /off on screaming rant, blood pressure through the roof. deep breath... Then trying to explain why, perhaps, Bush et al would make Jesus spit and really don't represent christianity if you've ever, say, done something extreme like read the gospels.

"Good grief, reading this, even I (who like the idea) think "Cult!" However, to paint a better picture, I'd say to combine the idea of the popular Yoga retreats you see advertised in the magazines with the idea of the popular "dude ranch" retreats you see advertised in the magazines. I swear, communal livng wouldn't HAVE to be comet-jumping, cool-aid drinking craziness! " Sounds great! Just one caveat... no human nature allowed! I'm in! Mystic - I totally agree about stillness and yet I also resist it consistently! Romans 8, I guess

LOL Ar! Can you imagine what it would be like if we as a society implicitly or explicitly condemned the seven deadly sins???!!! I can't even reliably name them! (kinda like the dwarfs ). What if just greed, envy, and lust were embarrassing and shameful???? That would topple our culture in about 5 minutes... there wouldn't be anything left! (too early - need coffee before heading down this road!)

"I believe that this is called jealousy." Or ENVY... one of the seven deadly, I believe I can't quite understand why they never make the papers like the "sexual" sins.

Welcome! There's a UCC church in Nashville - NASHVILLE FIRST UNITED CHURCH UCC Address 3410 GRANNY WHITE PIKE | NASHVILLE, TN 37204-2905 Phone (voice) (615) 297-8196 E-mail firstunitedchurch@comcast.net Web site http://www.firstunitedchurchucc.com They tend to be progressive - I don't know anything about congregation size or service schedules, but it's probably on the website. Also, check the paper. We have a church that has just begun advertising a Thur. evening service for people who work on Sun. Maybe there's one near you. Personally, I enjoy and benefit from, worshipping at a church that doesn't happen to be very progressive theologically... I am, but there is common ground and common God, purpose, etc. So, in essence, find a thin spot and don't worry too much about the sign on the door - IMO Good luck!

Great parable AR - hadn't seen this one before. I was struck most by the idea that it hurt to shed the dragon layers but then there are sparkling eyes and a release from a spell.... I guess it makes me think of "dark nights of the soul" and false selves. It is painful to look deep within and to change but as your skin becomes softer (less ego separating you from all else???) you become free.... Anybody else see it like this? Jerry - I don't know that sin conceptualized has anything to do with stages of spirituality. The "you did something bad and have to be punished" version perhaps... I see sin as things I do that push me away from God. They tend to be small, ego-driven things; choosing a good thing over the best thing; putting worldly or selfish concerns ahead of eternal things. Make any sense????

Love Hans Kung - clearly unjustified tx... wish he were Pope. He wrote a book called (I think) "Why I am Still a Christian" - profound to me early in this journey. Brief and highly readable... many of his are more scholarly. Anybody read much of his work? Recommendations?

Thanks! I even have a B& N giftcard from Christmas! Hey - great new deal, speaking of paying for my book addiction! Coinstar (coin counting machines in grocery stores, etc) now have some machines that waive the counting fee (aobut 9%) if you change your change ( ) into a giftcard for amazon.com! I had $120 in a mayonaise jar! Found $ - too much fun! Back on topic - I find meditating with a beginning in noticing (will try welcoming) my (unwelcome) visitors helps me to gain perspective. That observer thing.... I often end up laughing at myself and my... ummm... wretchedness (shudder). But somehow, that helps to separate it from me and improve my outlook.