Cynthia

In the presbyterian church, infant baptism requires a pledge on the part of the parents (at least 1) and the congregation to raise the child as a christian and to provide for their religious education and provide a godly example for them. It is seen as a way to "claim" the new covenant with God for the baby. Then at 12-14, or whenever appropriate, the child is allowed to join the church as an individual; kind of a confirmation of their own faith and choice. At my church, it is a spiritual and joyful occassion when babies, children, or adults are baptized.

Lily!!! Sorry! I think he's married with kids (a four year old who thought he was employed as a pirate during the filming of Pirates of the Carribean) There was an email a while back about God's Hit List.... pretty amusing. Then another asking W what to do about neighbors who disobeyed various laws from Leviticus... long hair, mixed fiber clothing, etc and how they should be killed. Of course www.Godhatesshrimp.com can't be missed. The charges against the religious right, in my opinion, will start with the huge numbers of people who look at/listen to them and are unable to consider christianity or any religion... Christianity has become a long 4-letter word to so many....

I thought Brad Pitt was the obvious choice. After, y'know, how he treated poor Jen and all... LOL

the presbyterian church I attend actually has a pretty strong concept that baptism is a sacrament of Jesus, not the church. If you have been baptized - even if, looking back it was "under duress", they are very reluctant to re-baptize. What do other churches believe?

I believe that it was in Beyond Belief by Elaine Pagels that the Gospel of Thomas and the Gospel of John were in competition, being written about the same time. She relates the doubting Thomas story as a smear tactic to increase numbers who followed John... this struck me as strangely comforting... people are people. No significant changes over the past 2000 years.... perhaps we're not getting worse, we just are. Any thoughts?

"Thanks, Matt for the link. I have so many childish questions concerning Jesus and his life. I will just keep reading for now, tho........... " Ask away - something about coming to God like a little child.... Around here, the simple questions often attract the most thought-provoking discussions!!

I agree about Judas - it reads to me as if Jesus was choosing him. Thanks for the article link Matt. Very thoughtful!

Welcome to you both!!!!!

"Math can be a lot like poetry at its most elegant. Symmetry... economy of expression" Fred - I understand that people experience it that way... it must be wonderful. I sometimes get that with symbols or nature - a trancendent concept that is so clear, so awesome, and so beyond words.b I wish I could see it in math like you do!! I had a cool experience meditating recently. It was a small group and they had some neat music on... I somehow flew on the music - quite moving and wonderful. " A state of awareness that's always present and not some place you go to when you die or some utopian kingdom that you sit around and wait for. The statement Jesus makes at the beginning of the Gospel that if they tell you it's in the sky the birds will get there first or if they say its in the sea the fish will get there first was priceless to me." I love the glimpses I get of that state! Thich Nhat Hanh says that when a monk can meditate with no thoughts for 4 hours, they have reached a meaningful point. Sigh.... Honestly 5-10 minutes is great for me! Perhaps when I'm 90 or so... but then somebody will probably just bury me!!! LOL

"grok" Ahhh... one of my favorite books - "A Stranger in a Strange Land"... sounds remarkably contemporary, don't y'think?? As for quantum physics... I agree Lily. The intellectual and scientific explanations are interesting (if dry :>), but the reality... ahhhhhhhh, beautiful.

Padfoot the cat - gotta love it!!! Paychecks are always nice--- This getting up at the crack of dawn is for the birds. I usually get up around 6... 5:30 is just too early. Good to get used to it while the sun still appears... in winter sometimes we go out and see stars and moon and darkness.... not even close to sunrise. You can feel true awe or truely pitiful! LOL

As I recall, the movie seemed to portray a serious, geeky, socially impaired man who found earthly love around the same time as divine love and loosened up. It fits his idea about earthly things being a pale reflection of spiritual/divine things, but very Hollywood... It also had the 'even odd people (vs beautiful people who drink the right beer LOL) can find love' sort of theme. The movie really doesn't give a lot of detail about Lewis, so it would be hard to take it too seriously as a biography

dh and I finally sat down and watched Shadowlands recently (old movie that is basically a biography of cs lewis). It was very good! I'm not a Debra Winger fan, but I didn't mind her in the role of Joy. Anybody seen it? Re: God at 2000, I've been looking at it... I haven't been in a non-fiction mood lately - enough to chew on from a couple of years of constant reading. $1.92 (+3.40 s&h) for the hardcover seemed like quite a deal! It must be frustrating for authors - but I guess there have always been garage sales!

I've seen trailers and movie posters... it looks like it may be good!! Kids, dh, and I are psyched!

Ok, ok, Aletheia... just ordered it on Amazon!

"We found ours on petfinder.com. It's a really good site as well. It's nice to see that Petco is doing that. Generally, pet store practices kind of irritate me. " Agreed! Apparently the whole corporation was bought out a couple of years ago... they have a lot of admirable services - low cost vaccinations and veterinary care, the adoption website, and well-trained staff to help people choose appropriate pets. A bit of hope that the pendulum is starting the back-swing :>

As for looking for dogs, Petco's website has a search engine that has access to pets in shelters all over the country. Perhaps....

Borg spent a little time in seminary... here's an interesting link that gives his biography with his stages of faith. http://www.westarinstitute.org/Periodicals...o/borg_bio.html

"Must Love Dogs" was not as good as we'd hoped... might want to wait for video and save $ for the puppy :>. Good idea, great acting, pretty bad writing. sigh....

Here's a sojo mail article written by Brian McLaren that seems to speak to this issue. Looking forward to views :> A bridge far enough? by Brian McLaren You've heard the old saying: The hard thing about being a bridge is that you get walked on from both ends. As someone who spends roughly half of my time in the conservative world and half in the liberal (theologically and politically speaking), I suppose I qualify as a kind of bridge person. Unfortunately, my experience confirms the old saying, and I have a few boot marks on my backside to prove it. The fact is, I don't feel very qualified to write this article. I'm assuming the best person for the job should be well accepted and respected on both sides of the bridge. He or she should feel successful in communicating with both liberals and conservatives, feel comfortable in both red and blue states, be liked by both Hannity and Colmes. Sadly, the more I communicate with one side of the bridge, the more I feel suspect by the other. As a result, I've been invited to stay out of a state of one color, and in spite of my above-average imagination, I can't imagine possibly connecting with Colmes and Geraldo without infuriating Hannity and O'Reilly, or vice versa. So, if I'm a bridge, I'm a rickety one, a "plan B," I suppose. My basic qualification to write this article is my belief that we as followers of Christ should at least try to talk to everybody we can - and to do so, as the Apostle Peter said, with "gentleness and respect" (1 Peter 3:15). I don't agree with the tone of the conservative author who offers advice on how to talk to a liberal "if you must," suggesting that it's an odious task that one must do while pinching her nose. Nor do I agree with any liberal mirror image who sees all conservatives as equally stinky conversation partners. I have been given no exemption card regarding 1 Corinthians 13, and my calling as a Christian requires me, in the words of Paul, to "become all things to all people." To those under the law I became like one under the law...so as to win those under the law. To those not having the law I became like one not having the law...so as to win those not having the law. To the weak I became weak, to win the weak. I have become all things to all people so that by all possible means I might save some. I do this for the sake of the gospel.... - 1 Corinthians 9:20-23 By the way - people often quote that Pauline phrase about becoming all things to all people preceded by you can't. But Paul's assertion was that he must, for the sake of the gospel, no matter how difficult the task was (and it was difficult - resulting in at least one riot in his lifetime!). Paul had what he called "the ministry of reconciliation," and he saw himself as a peace ambassador for Christ. For Christ's love compels us, because we are convinced that one died for all, and therefore all died. And he died for all, that those who live should no longer live for themselves but for him who died for them and was raised again. So from now on we regard no one from a worldly point of view.... All this is from God, who reconciled us to himself and gave us the ministry of reconciliation: that God was reconciling the world to himself in Christ, not counting people's sins against them. And he has committed to us the message of reconciliation. We are therefore Christ's ambassadors, as though God were making his appeal through us. - 2 Corinthians 5:14-20 He was called to enter various cultures - Jewish cultures, Gentile cultures - and invite people to be reconciled to God and to one another. Of course, nobody can be everything to everybody at the same time, but you can, Paul implied, cross the bridge on the right side and enter a person's world without judgment, and then go to the left side of the bridge and enter that person's world without judgment as well. Brian McLaren, founding pastor of Cedar Ridge Community Church in Spencerville, Maryland, is author, most recently, of The Last Word and the Word After That.

parenting is subversive! When my kids started noticing commercials, we would go and find the trick. Look at the cool toy on tv... go to the store... gee, it doesn't do any of the stuff it did on the commercial. Trick. The nasty sugar-filled goop they're selling? Try one! Yuck!!! Trick. It really is fun!

"Progressive Christianity as an openness to the many ways of understanding and approaching Christianity." Excellent distinction! As always, you find an eloquence to express thoughts that escape me! I would see the above as the most important element of progressive christianity, to me.

awwwww... too cute! God makes them look like their parents, but much more adorable, so that we will let them live!!! Hope you all are getting settled in together! Godspeed.

"I know, I know... It sounds like corny idealism, but that is really how change happens in the world- enough people standing together and committing to a common cause. I think a large part of the problem we face now is American apathy- people are too absorbed in their own comfort zones to stand up and help make a difference. I am seeking to be more involved with this movement, and hope others here will as well. OOPS! I really didn't mean to be sarcastic... I can see how you read it that way. I was smiling support. I agree very much about the apathy and see a great deal of willful, purposeful ignorance... I too am trying to find ways to be involved that don't leave me feeling like Don Quixote!

The thing I like about this board is the level of respect everyone is shown. This seems consistent with Jesus' message, imo. This topic seems to be the only exception I recall... I hope that all who are bothered by certain posters will do as Des suggested and just use the ignore feature.