Cynthia

Thanks des - I feel soooo intellectual

We're a bit behind friends... check out the homepage of TCPC (What's happening now link) for pictures of the 2004 AND 2005 (Jan in TX) conferences of progressive christians. "Since 1996, TCPC has hosted yearly conferences in various cities in the United States. Past forums have addressed issues such as the arts, the future of progressive faith communities, and interfaith dialogue. Read about what happened, including transcripts of presentations, and see photos from the events in our collection of conference proceedings. Regional In 2002, TCPC began increasing support to regional groups of TCPC affiliates who wanted to host events in their area. The first major gatherings happened in the New England region in the Fall of 2003 and 2004. In January of 2005, TCPC sponsored the first conference for the Southwest region in Houston, Texas."

Dandelions count too???!!! Good grief... I'll be in line somewhere behind Hitler!!!

Ahhh Meek, those humility building moments of enlightenment... just lay down for a while... and start again Somebody help me with the attribution for this oh too true quote: We have met the enemy and it is us.

Thanks Monica! Ahhh Spring! It's a great yard day here! I have an important karma question.... does each INDIVIDUAL ant count??? :>

Living Buddha, Living Christ, if I'm remembering correctly, is a pairing of sayings from each. If you're interested in the comparison, I really enjoyed Going Home - Jesus and Buddha as Brothers. I haven't read Peace is Every Step, but I'm sure it is good He also has very insightful books on Anger and Love (makes a great wedding gift! - the second!! - the first might be better 5 or 10 yrs down the road ) His theme is compassion in all the books I have read. Radical compassion - much like Jesus. I find his writings to be very powerful. They seem infused with the divine to me. Not that I think he is divine - just very much tuned in. A lot like reading Mother Teresa or the Dalai Lama.... to me.

He's wonderful... and very prolific - I've never read anything of his that I wouldn't recommend.

Findlays Paradox"??? I googled it and got gooblegook... just a brief stating if you don't want to get into it here, please!

Wow - a very diverse list. Since I don't know anything about what you're interested in at the present, I'd recommend heading to the bookstore with the list and letting the book choose you. Find the ones that sound good, read the covers, buy the one(s) you really don't want to put back. If they leave your hands easily... save it for later. :> Godspeed on your journey!

I think you're right... the answer has to do with moral consistency.... it's not about the situation, it's about the standard for making decisions that you personally bring to any situation (or try ). How about Do unto others as you would have them do unto you??? Ex: 1,000 embryos. What to do? What would I want done to me? I would want to be allowed to make the decision; not legislated to or caught up in court with people who have never met me. Ex: stealing on the internet - put yourself in the place of the other. We're back to panentheism to some extent and quantum theory and buddhism... if we are all part of God, then can I harm you without harming myself??? I don't think so. Then there is the mystery. If this always worked, it would be easy. So, for the times when you have limited information or the answer is not clear... how about live with no regrets. Planning to be able to look in the mirror 10 years later and say, "Given what I knew at the time, I did the best I could and acted in a way I can be proud of" I think this allows for the fact that one answer is not desirable for everyone. That is where our system falls down. We know that people are very different, but we want one diet, one pill, one exercise program, and one faith that will work for everyone. Non-judgement????? Allowing people to do what is right for them... ahhh... but we KNOW that people will not do right (Romans 7) and apparently never have Then the big can of worms opens: All it takes for evil to prosper is for good men to do nothing. Where's the line between that and non-judgement????? Yikes - a stream of consciousness post that has left me more confused!

It's a point well taken Darby. I think the intellectual searching and quest for understanding is noble (in the right spirit ) and is a form of worship. It is fun, engaging, and truely fascinating. For me, it is not a form of doubt or questioning. It is a form of getting to know more about my beloved. (sounds really hokey - seems really honest - sorry! ) On the other hand, there is experience. It is often, as we keep finding, beyond words. I think that Ephesians 3:19 sums it up best. Here are a variety of translations and to know Christ's love which surpasses knowledge, that you may be filled with all the fullness of God. WEB and to know the love of Christ which passeth knowledge, that ye may be filled unto all the fulness of God. ASV And to have knowledge of the love of Christ which is outside all knowledge, so that you may be made complete as God himself is complete. BBE and to know the love of the Christ which surpasses knowledge; that ye may be filled even to all the fulness of God. DBY And to know the love of Christ, which passeth knowledge, that ye might be filled with all the fulness of God. KJV And to know the love of Christ, which passeth knowledge, that ye may be filled with all the fullness of God. WBS yes, to attain to a knowledge of the knowledge-surpassing love of Christ, so that you may be made complete in accordance with God's own standard of completeness. WEY to know also the love of the Christ that is exceeding the knowledge, that ye may be filled -- to all the fulness of God; YLT the love can be experienced. That's what lead us here. It cannot be fully grasped by the bit of gray stuff in my skull. It's still fun to try; for those of us so bent!

Aletheia & Fred - sushi... yum! Spicy tuna rolls sound perfect! Panta - Occam's razor Panentheism 101: Because I live, you also will live. On that day you will realize that I am in my Father, and you are in me, and I am in you. John 14:16-20 NIV

I don't think Wallis is "claiming the Pope" - - - and hence doesn't have to take all his views although, except for the role of women he may agree. (his wife is ordained) The difference, I think, is respecting the Pope as having a consistent world view that guided his life, decisions, and policies vs. saying that the Pope supports your own position.

panta - with respect and frustration, I give. Clearly our logical processes are so different that what apparently makes sense to you is close to meaningless to me and I gather that works both ways! Any chance we can go back to panentheisem 101 on this thread???

I thought there was general agreement that God is not "supernatural"? Should we begin another topic on Natural Theology vs. Supernatural Theology? I think that many of us agree that time does not exist. It is a construct that is critical to our human experience. I do not believe that it factors into "od's experience". This has nothing to do with supernatural vs. natural. It is a limitation of the human mind. There are many others.

Nice Des - thanks for sharing. The "whatever your sexual identity may be" lends such a note of sadness... neither jew nor greek, neither male nor female... too bad our society is so very human and so far from God.

all great thoughts... but if time is a human construct......????? Can God see across time/without time/from outside time, however you want to phrase it. Basically God's omnipotence makes sense if time is not a variable in "His" perspective. Y'think????

I agree - mindfulness/awareness of the divine essence of others (namaste???) is the most earnest spiritual practice I do. As far as communion, 2 thoughts. 1 - when I take communion, I think of it in symbolic terms but I have a deep experience that seems unique to that symbolic act. 2- Do you (anybody) think that Jesus chose bread and wine because they were (as I understand it) very common foods, likely to be eaten at most meals? I wonder if He meant for us to remember Him in even our most banal moments... no pomp nor circumstance... just workaday bread and wine. Perhaps guiding us to mindfulness/prayer without ceasing/keeping your heart right lest you eat and drink judgement on yourself - - - at every meal. Wow - radical.

I also enjoy contemplative prayer, meditation, nature, playing with dogs and kids and husband. I appreciate the guidelines on lectio divino - I've been thinking of trying that... now I have no excuse I'd love to know more about praying in tongues. Do you see it as a gift or something you do purposefully? Any starting points would be appreciated! Peace

On my knees. It's all about the journey. You'll never find a church you agree with 100%... unless, perhaps (???) you're the Sr. Pastor - and I think that has it's own set of difficulties! Remember, it's not about finding the perfect church, it's about finding a thin spot (where you feel God), a place/group/mission you feel good about being part of; a community for your kids to belong to and feel supported/restricted (in a positive peer pressure way) by. A place for joy and respite. Good luck!

Thanks Aletheia - off to amazon!!!

Try "emerging" churches... I go to one that is EPC - Evangelical Presbyterian. Sounds scary, but it's not The motto of the denomination is: "In essentials unity, in non-essentials, liberty, in all things, charity. Truth and love." The essentials involve basic christianity... pretty exclusivistic. No fire and brimstone - generally hell is viewed as separation from God. The non-essentials involve social issues, things people see differently over time that often split churches. The worship is contemporary, the music is awesome, the message is god-centered, socially active, and solid grace - to members and, more importantly, to be taken to the world by members. Individual presbyteries and churches have a lot of leeway in this denomination, so they may vary quite a bit. You might check Brian McLaren's website (sorry, not sure of the address - google!) - they may have lists of churches in various areas. Godspeed and welcome to the site!

I like the middle ground between those extremes here (this board). I think we're all looking for the sharing of interesting ideas with the idea of a practicing theology to take with us into the world. Science and spirituality are more than integrated, they are consistent. As for your last point, life isn't meaningless... I haven't noticed anyone on this board with anything approaching that position. As for all concepts being valid... I think Borg has a good point when he discusses following your path, with passion and heart; Without denigrating anyone else's. (he does except fringe groups). Really, if it works for them, why take the "fundie" position we rant about so often here and feel the need to convert them to your way of thinking? There is a zen challenge - give up the need to prove your position. Stating it, discussing it, thinkng it through in community is great. We all enjoy/benefit from that or we wouldn't be here. The McLaren book I just read "A New Kind of Christian" addresses the issues you raised in your last post. In his paradigm, this is the pain of being postmodern in a modern world. The book is not tremendously well written, but it has a lot of good ideas. My favorite is the idea that modern christianity is concerned with personal salvation while postmodern christianity will likely be concerned with being a servant to the world.

Thanks for the perspective Curlytop. Very mature and thoughtful. John Paul II has made a huge positive difference in the world. I love to read his writings. Thank you! Cynthia

Panta - I feel your pain! I spent years reading and trying to understand it all too... then I got very frustrated. At this point, I think the knowledge is valuable (I still like to know things!) and is a form of worship (love God... all your mind...) BUT, I think trying to know it all is a cop out... (ok, sorry, up off the floor)... DOING is where its at. As I've said before - much harder... at least to us knowing types! OMMMMMMM