Cynthia

Aletheia - PetCo has fancy rats... about $6. We're on pair # 3! For everybody else (who's making faces and shuddering )- they have a bad rap. Rats are actually the sweetest and cleanest rodents. They don't ever bite - even when injured. They even interact with the dogs and take care of each other when one is sick. Only about a 2 yr. lifespan ... we tell the kids that God really loves rats, that's why they don't stay here very long :>.

Hey all - it's interesting to read about people that you think you have guessed something about! I'm 37, married, 2 kids, 3 dogs, 2 rats, lots of fish. I spend an inordinate amount of time watching juvenile sports, and as I love nature, I have turned our front yard into a forest. I'm in TN, attend an EPC church with a wide variety of "types" of believers, and a huge heart for social issues. I enjoy hiking, yoga, camping, reading (theology (a mixed bag - Lewis, Yancey, Borg, Merton, Moore, Thich Nhat Hanh, Dalai Lama, Mother Teresa), sci-fi, mystery), and discussing theological/religious/spiritual questions.

Anybody know much about Tarot? It's been brought to my attention recently, then I found this old post...

WindDancer - I agree .... The more I work on my relationship with God, the more positive influence I seem to have on those around me. I also have no need to convert anyone, but a strong desire to help people understand what they are seeking when they are interested. It really doesn't matter to me if we agree or not... strange (for me!), but more and more true. I've given up trying to name my philosophy...

For a forray into taoism... I loved the Tao of Pooh series. Each character represents elements of taoism. Readable and informative - I think

Freaky, but cool. God has a sense of humor, heh???

Darby - good point. I tend to do the same, as (you're right), does everybody. I tend to think of my experience of God, the things/messages/morals/values (can't find the right word) when making those decisions. I have a high level of skepticism inherent to me... then knowing the history of the cannonical texts, the non-connonical texts, the political struggles, the church struggles..... that is why I can't take the bible literally and that includes some of the statements that I don't believe Jesus actually said. I completely agree that we need a consistent picture of Jesus to follow... I don't know if it has to be shared. The way is narrow - - - it often involves doing things we don't want to do, are not comfortable with, and have to sacrifice for... sigh... off to try again.

WindDancer - I don't know what he meant. It was in The Power of Myth with Bill Moyers. He had made it pretty clear that he was not involved in religion. I think that he meant experience with what he would call The More. What we would probably call God. It made a big impression on me... such peace and assurance from Campbell. Did he become a Christian before he died??? I didn't know that! Darby - I think that perhaps it is more important to be LIKE Jesus than to agree on a definition about him. I love BroRog's Radical Follower of Jesus the Christ... I know it would get "the look", but it fits!

Darby - I also appreciate the compliment and your participation on this board. It is not as interesting to discuss things with people you agree with - less learning, too much comfort . It loses all joy to disagree disagreeably. (especially when arguing who is "more christian" - can't you see Jesus beating his head on the walls of heaven?????) I think all of us love God - however we may conceptualize we all have faith and experience of the More. Perhaps the difference is that whether or not Jesus literally rose from the dead bodily does not seem important to me nor would it change my faith if I had a decisive answer. My faith is based on my personal, current experience of Jesus/God/More. As Joesph Campbell told Bill Moyers, "I don't need faith, I have experience". Two things I believe (right now ): 1)God is big. 2)Things (even ideas, doctrines, etc) that divide are of man, not of God. Meanwhile, while I truely believe that spirituality is about doing, not talking. I dearly love the intellectual side of faith. These discussions spare me many "looks" from my friends and associates (they don't have a smiley of "the look" yet - well, maybe this one ). Go with God.

Thanks Des - I think of anger, even righteous anger, as poison. It does very little to the person it is directed at, but it will literally kill the person who allows it space in their heart and mind.

My favorite thing about aging, so far (only 37) is realizing fairly recently that my most prized views may change dramatically down the road. It gives such freedom to look at them and to hear others. Perhaps to hold them lightly without taking them lightly. "He's just young" is impossible to explain, unless you just get it.

Thanks Winddancer - I just ordered it (from an independent through Amazon - no indep. bookstores within 30 min of me BroRog :>) Perhaps anyone who's interested could chime in - we could consider a mutual fasting time period; compare notes as it were.

I had a brief experience of silence at a yoga weekend. It was hard at first because it was about 15 people who I didn't know eating together, walking around a house/woods, etc. without talking for about 3 hours. Once we gave up making eye contact at every encounter, it became easier - in the South it is very rude not to "speak" to or acknowledge someone when you encounter them. That makes it harder, I think. It was extremely peaceful once the discomfort wore off :> I agree with you PantaRhea - testing ourselves, pushing ourselves - especially for those of us over 30 or so... is very worthwhile. CS Lewis talks about mortality being related to growing. When you say, "leave well enough alone" then you have ceased to be useful to God - you are essentially refusing to grow. I think this is a more accurate way to access age than chronology. Ceasing to move is old. Now that I know many people who are 70 something and not old and people who are 40 something and quite old, it seems like a choice. Has anyone been to a convent type retreat? There is one near me - perhaps a weekend there for fasting from food and conversation... just thinking with my fingers. Any thoughts? Seems like a monastic weekend might be more wonderful than fasting with kids running in and out and sitting at the soccer fields :> and being hungry.

dumplings.

Foster discusses several different disciplines. I read about silence today. It was interesting because he denotes silence as speaking only when moved to do so and no more, not complete silence. I am interested in a longer fast now - contemplating anyway . Foster suggests working up to it with juice fasts, etc. Any tips?

Interesting quote curlytop - it seems that the middle road would be much more difficult and more mindful. In a strange way it is easier, at least for me, to eat or not eat rather than to find moderation or just enough. Lolly - I am inclined to agree with you about the starvation induced visions, but in the apocrypha there is a story about an angel requiring a prophet to fast and pray for 7 days as a way to please God and to qualify for spiritual information (2nd Esdras)... perhaps there is a valid level of stepping out of our usual conditions in order to perceive a part of reality that we normally have little access to. I think that many cultures have rituals that include fasting and separation from others to encourage spiritual encounters. Concurrent validity??? BroRog - "very helpful" - in contact? Clarity? Peace? Decision making? If you feel like it - if its private, I understand. Do you work during extended fasts or take a retreat?

I keep hearing about the book Celebration of Discipline by Richard J. Foster, so I decided to start reading it. It seems to be a book that people either love or hate. Anybody read it? Thoughts? Anyone interested? I was taken aback today reading about fasting. I was interested and motivated until he got to the 21-40 day water only fast. "By the fourth day the hunger pains are beginning to subside though you will have feelings of weakness and occasional dizziness. The dizziness is only temporary and caused by sudden changes in position. Move more slowly and you will have no difficulty. The weakness can come to the point where the simplest task takes great effort. Rest is the best remedy. Many find this the most difficult period of the fast." (p.59) After reading that, I am taking him with a large grain of salt. Anyone ever fast for more than a day? I do one day fasts occasionally... I don't think I've tried more than 36 hours (dinner, sleep, don't eat one day, sleep, eat breakfast the next day). I usually do a juice fast to combate headaches.

What's your favorite prayer? Perhaps in sharing we can remember old favorites and find inspiration and thin spots. My current two favorites are: Dear Lord, the Great Healer, I kneel before you, Since every perfect gift must come from you. I pray, give skill to my hands, clear vision to my mind, kindness and meekness to my heart. Give me singleness of purpose, strength to lift up a part Of the burden of my suffering fellow man, And a true realization of the privilege that is mine. Take from my heart all guile and worldliness, That with a simple faith of child, I may rely on you. From "A Simple Heart," by Mother Teresa Published by Ballantine Books, 1995. The Peace Prayer of Saint Francis "O Lord, make me an instrument of Thy Peace! Where there is hatred, let me sow love. Where there is injury, pardon. Where there is discord, harmony. Where there is doubt, faith. Where there is despair, hope. Where there is darkness, light. Where there is sorrow, joy. Oh Divine Master, grant that I may not so much seek to be consoled as to console; to be understood as to understand; to be loved as to love; for it is in giving that we receive; it is in pardoning that we are pardoned; and it is in dying that we are born to Eternal Life."

Thanks for posting that - I have passed it on to environmentally concerned friends. It's good to see churches joining together for positive causes!

Progress/interesting aspects/enlightenment moments anyone??? My meditation is going well. The best time of day for me is about 5:30am before everybody gets up and moving. I have been waking up fully without an alarm and with no desire to go back to sleep. Ahhh... divine assistance - lovely. On the sugar/flour front, the brownies today were great. I have been mindful of God since Wed Aletheia - did you decide to celebrate?

Go for it Aletheia - the best part is that you get Sundays off. In my house during Lent, Sundays are known alternately as "brownie day" (perhaps, just perhaps, a person might be made fun of for making brownies for breakfast...) and "God is GOOD" day! Sundays really make you appreciate what you usually take for granted. Interested to hear how it goes for you. Godspeed

I respectfully disagree Beach - The statements are general in a way that encompasses timeless priorities and values. Social issues come and go... religion or spirituality should have a consistent approach to interaction with the world regardless of the current social fads. Jesus is about Radical Compassion. Unearned, undeserved, un-understandable. Whether a tax collector, a fallen woman, a slave, a homosexual, an AIDS infected person, or blessed people like me who have time to sit at a computer and think without worrying about subsistence. God is timeless; christianity is timeless; people are bound by time and culture. These statements help us to step out of those bounds and to see our actions/times/beliefs with greater perspective.

LOL fatherman - Thanks - I needed a good laugh. Probably both!

My church does not celebrate lent, but my family (immediate, not of origin) does. We find it to be a practice of mindfulness and gratitude. This year we decided not only to give something up, but to add something also. I added a daily meditation period - I tend to be irregular - and gave up flour and sugar. I gave up flour and sugar last year and found it meaningful. It's not just legalism... it's a place for grace - I find that I cannot give these up consistently at any other time of year. It also is a practice of mindfulness. Every time (each second or so) that I consider flour or Dios Mio - sugar, I remember God's blessings for me... it's not so much to give up in comparison- God is good to me. It makes me aware of my ambient gratitude. It wakes me from my workaday self... or, like Steve mentioned, peels away the false self. I used to see it from a different perspective... but, hey, give it a try - you may be amazed at your experience.

I'll probably have a better answer after reading some posts, but for now, I would say that I view Jesus as God in human form. I believe that God created us, it doesn't make sense to me that we would need to be saved from Him. So, not savior in the sense of died for our sins, but savior in the sense that God came to earth to help/show/guide us.