Presidential Poll 2020

[thormas]

The orange trumpster now thinks and says that he has done more for Black Americans that John Lewis...................Such delusions, such narcissism, such stupidity.

[Elen1107]

New York State Governor Cuomo's interview on the Federal and Nation Wide response to the C19 virus.

One thing that they saw in New York is that frontline workers in the hospitals and ER's have a markedly lower infection rate than people who stayed at home during the shut down. What this means is that masks work. "Wearing is Caring"

 

[Elen1107]

Had to post another one of these.

For people that think that somehow NYC has developed some kind of "herd immunity", that is just not true. I can get you videos and articles on "herd immunity" NY and this county are no where close to herd immunity. The reason that infections are down in New York is because of the way the virus is being managed and because of what people are doing. They are wearing masks, they are social distancing, they are doing a phased and controlled reopening, and they are taking the virus seriously and not playing politics with a deadly virus.

 

[PaulS]

1 hour ago, Elen1107 said:

Had to post another one of these.

Brilliant!

[Elen1107]

12 minutes ago, PaulS said:

Brilliant!

There's more! Check out his YouTube channel, including the playlists. The guy is something with his Brooklyn-Queens accent and way of talking and putting things and just being honest. 

If I were Joe Biden and I were the president, now, I'd ask this guy to help talk to the country and help get the country coordinated so we can control and manage this thing.

https://www.youtube.com/user/nygovcuomo/playlists

Edited August 5, 2020 by Elen1107

[thormas]

10 hours ago, Elen1107 said:

Had to post another one of these.

For people that think that somehow NYC has developed some kind of "herd immunity", that is just not true. I can get you videos and articles on "herd immunity" NY and this county are no where close to herd immunity. The reason that infections are down in New York is because of the way the virus is being managed and because of what people are doing. They are wearing masks, they are social distancing, they are doing a phased and controlled reopening, and they are taking the virus seriously and not playing politics with a deadly virus.

Cuomo has done a great job and I love how strong and passionate he is. I agree: brilliant!

I also love how he calls the trumpster on his bull.

[Elen1107]

12 hours ago, thormas said:

Cuomo has done a great job and I love how strong and passionate he is. I agree: brilliant!

I also love how he calls the trumpster on his bull.

I'm thinking that that video might go viral, it's gotten like 150 views in the past half hour. I'm sure Trump has seen it.

I've seen Gov. Cuomo say something on one day and Trump act on it the next, even the Governor has mentioned this too.

Hope this will help get Trump to change his message, support safe reopening's and mask wearing, and save many, many lives. 

[PaulS]

43 minutes ago, Elen1107 said:

Hope this will help get Trump to change his message, support safe reopening's and mask wearing, and save many, many lives. 

I think it's fair to say, and very sad, that unfortunately the damage is done and I doubt even Trump can bring the mindset of many back to a place where the priority is stopping the spread and protecting the community, so that the community can go forward in a controlled fashion.

[Elen1107]

2 minutes ago, PaulS said:

I think it's fair to say, and very sad, that unfortunately the damage is done and I doubt even Trump can bring the mindset of many back to a place where the priority is stopping the spread and protecting the community, so that the community can go forward in a controlled fashion.

Geesh, I hope you're wrong  😰

[thormas]

5 minutes ago, PaulS said:

I think it's fair to say, and very sad, that unfortunately the damage is done and I doubt even Trump can bring the mindset of many back to a place where the priority is stopping the spread and protecting the community, so that the community can go forward in a controlled fashion.

Another President might be able to but not the current one given his own mindset.

[PaulS]

12 minutes ago, thormas said:

Another President might be able to but not the current one given his own mindset.

Definitely not the current one with his current mindset, but I doubt even Biden will be able to convince Trump stalwarts either.  They will continue to be focused on their personal rights & freedom to go where they want, how they want, and without a mask if they so choose!  If Trump loses I can't imagine them having an epiphany and understanding that Trump was wrong on covid, but rather that he was always right and Biden is the devil.  

[Elen1107]

8 minutes ago, thormas said:

Another President might be able to but not the current one given his own mindset.

 

3 minutes ago, PaulS said:

Definitely not the current one with his current mindset, but I doubt even Biden will be able to convince Trump stalwarts either.  They will continue to be focused on their personal rights & freedom to go where they want, how they want, and without a mask if they so choose!  If Trump loses I can't imagine them having an epithany and understanding that Trump was wrong on covid, but rather that he was always right and Biden is the devil.  

I saw part of the president's yadder-yadder today on TV. I couldn't get through all of it and had to turn it off. He was taking a more cautious and controlled approach in talking about Arizona's reopening and the way they are "resetting" their reopening. I think that Paul is right, that perhaps the only one who can get through to the trump followers is Trump himself. 

GD I don't want to see this just get worse and worse and worse. I don't care whose idea it is, and I don't care who ends up doing the speeches and all the talking, or even who takes all the credit for it whether it's their thinking and ideas or not. Whatever!

I just want to see things get better.

[PaulS]

8 hours ago, Elen1107 said:

I saw part of the president's yadder-yadder today on TV. I couldn't get through all of it and had to turn it off. He was taking a more cautious and controlled approach in talking about Arizona's reopening and the way they are "resetting" their reopening. I think that Paul is right, that perhaps the only one who can get through to the trump followers is Trump himself. 

I do find it astounding that so many Americans (Trump voters) are so quietly accepting Trump's version of this pandemic, particularly when he calls himself a war-time president in dealing with it.  Thank God he hasn't led the US to many wars is all I can imagine.

Since World War 2, about 100,000 US soldiers have lost their lives in various wars and conflicts the US have been involved in.  This includes all of the US dead from the Korean War, the Vietnam War, Iraq 1, Afghanistan, Iraq 2 and Syria combined.  But when 160,00 people are dead from covid and the number is still rising by over 1000 a day, and Trump's response when challenged about the enormous fatality rate includes "it is what it is",  I just can't fathom how Trump supporters don't demand more from their President.  It's just seems ludicrous to me.

And his nonsense about the true measure being number of deaths versus number of cases identified is just pathetic.  Do people really swallow this stuff from him?

[thormas]

9 hours ago, PaulS said:

Definitely not the current one with his current mindset, but I doubt even Biden will be able to convince Trump stalwarts either.  They will continue to be focused on their personal rights & freedom to go where they want, how they want, and without a mask if they so choose!  If Trump loses I can't imagine them having an epiphany and understanding that Trump was wrong on covid, but rather that he was always right and Biden is the devil.  

You could very well be right on the money - but at least without the trumpster it will be 'business as usual.' I hope Biden and the country at least have the chance to make things right.

[thormas]

1 hour ago, PaulS said:

I do find it astounding that so many Americans (Trump voters) are so quietly accepting Trump's version of this pandemic, particularly when he calls himself a war-time president in dealing with it.  Thank God he hasn't led the US to many wars is all I can imagine.

No truer words have been spoken.............

[Elen1107]

9 hours ago, PaulS said:

I do find it astounding that so many Americans (Trump voters) are so quietly accepting Trump's version of this pandemic, particularly when he calls himself a war-time president in dealing with it.  Thank God he hasn't led the US to many wars is all I can imagine.

Since World War 2, about 100,000 US soldiers have lost their lives in various wars and conflicts the US have been involved in.  This includes all of the US dead from the Korean War, the Vietnam War, Iraq 1, Afghanistan, Iraq 2 and Syria combined.  But when 160,00 people are dead from covid and the number is still rising by over 1000 a day, and Trump's response when challenged about the enormous fatality rate includes "it is what it is",  I just can't fathom how Trump supporters don't demand more from their President.  It's just seems ludicrous to me.

And his nonsense about the true measure being number of deaths versus number of cases identified is just pathetic.  Do people really swallow this stuff from him?

It's ludicrous to me too. I still can't figure out how he ever got elected. I've never been so ashamed and embarrassed by my country. Everything you are saying is true, it's just horrible.

[JosephM]

If one takes a look at the deaths per million for NY, NJ, MA, and CT you will see the death rates per million is over 1000 for each of these states and far higher than those states currently experiencing pronounced spikes..

If you extrapolate the number of deaths by the fatality rate for covid-19 by "The CDC’s current best estimate of the COVID-19 infection fatality rate of 0.65%" you will find all of these 5 states are closer to approaching a degree of herd immunity than others . That's why their 2nd spike is so much smaller than the first one.  For example NY state has 32,817 deaths attributed to covid-19 . The real number of cases is not the number reported and has been verified by cuomo himself in sample testing of the public that were never reported as cases both symptomatic and asymptomatic. For example.  32,817 deaths attributed in NY state divided by .0065 = 5, 048,769 people have been infected to equal the current death rate.  This agrees with news reports by all major newspapers that says the reral infected rate is 10 or more time what is reported. . https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-usa-cases/coronavirus-may-have-infected-10-times-more-americans-than-reported-cdc-says-idUSKBN23W2PU

NY State has approximately 19 million population. NYC has approximately 8.5 million. While herd immunity requires  60% or more of the population to have had the virus one can see that these 4 states are well on their way toward it and would obviously be showing less cases at this time than other states since they had such a high exposure during their initial peak.

In conclusion, because these states seem to be under better control of covid-19 at this time that is no proof that the governors have handled it better than other states when you review all the data. I would add because of their population density it is also no proof that they have handled it any worse than other governors. The data only explains one of the many reasons why those states are seemingly having covid-19 under better control.

Joseph

[Elen1107]

10 hours ago, JosephM said:

If one takes a look at the deaths per million for NY, NJ, MA, and CT you will see the death rates per million is over 1000 for each of these states and far higher than those states currently experiencing pronounced spikes..

If you extrapolate the number of deaths by the fatality rate for covid-19 by "The CDC’s current best estimate of the COVID-19 infection fatality rate of 0.65%" you will find all of these 5 states are closer to approaching a degree of herd immunity than others . That's why their 2nd spike is so much smaller than the first one.  For example NY state has 32,817 deaths attributed to covid-19 . The real number of cases is not the number reported and has been verified by cuomo himself in sample testing of the public that were never reported as cases both symptomatic and asymptomatic. For example.  32,817 deaths attributed in NY state divided by .0065 = 5, 048,769 people have been infected to equal the current death rate.  This agrees with news reports by all major newspapers that says the reral infected rate is 10 or more time what is reported. . https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-usa-cases/coronavirus-may-have-infected-10-times-more-americans-than-reported-cdc-says-idUSKBN23W2PU

NY State has approximately 19 million population. NYC has approximately 8.5 million. While herd immunity requires  60% or more of the population to have had the virus one can see that these 4 states are well on their way toward it and would obviously be showing less cases at this time than other states since they had such a high exposure during their initial peak.

In conclusion, because these states seem to be under better control of covid-19 at this time that is no proof that the governors have handled it better than other states when you review all the data. I would add because of their population density it is also no proof that they have handled it any worse than other governors. The data only explains one of the many reasons why those states are seemingly having covid-19 under better control.

Joseph

I have a video on herd immunity that mentions New York City as well as a number of other cities and countries. Governor Cuomo's heath expert also answered this question on one of his news briefings and stated that NYC was no where near herd immunity. New York has been following the CDC's guidelines to the letter. Chances are much, much better that this is what is stopping the spread of C19, rather than herd immunity.

One thing that hospitals and states have going for them now that they didn't back in April is that they have more expertise in dealing with the virus. There are a few treatments that are at least 50% effective in treatment, Remdesivir is just one of them. Hospitals also have a better understanding of over all treatment, like when to put a person on oxygen or on a ventilator, and other procedures that I'm sure I don't know about.

This is a link to info on herd immunity.

 

 

[PaulS]

20 hours ago, JosephM said:

If one takes a look at the deaths per million for NY, NJ, MA, and CT you will see the death rates per million is over 1000 for each of these states and far higher than those states currently experiencing pronounced spikes..

If you extrapolate the number of deaths by the fatality rate for covid-19 by "The CDC’s current best estimate of the COVID-19 infection fatality rate of 0.65%" you will find all of these 5 states are closer to approaching a degree of herd immunity than others . That's why their 2nd spike is so much smaller than the first one.  For example NY state has 32,817 deaths attributed to covid-19 . The real number of cases is not the number reported and has been verified by cuomo himself in sample testing of the public that were never reported as cases both symptomatic and asymptomatic. For example.  32,817 deaths attributed in NY state divided by .0065 = 5, 048,769 people have been infected to equal the current death rate.  This agrees with news reports by all major newspapers that says the reral infected rate is 10 or more time what is reported. . https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-usa-cases/coronavirus-may-have-infected-10-times-more-americans-than-reported-cdc-says-idUSKBN23W2PU

I suspect it has a lot more to do with what measures have been taken by people (social distancing, focused hygiene, staying home etc) that is seeing the rates lower rather than herd immunity.  Herd immunity has not been scientifically verified as yet and in fact, the latest studies suggest any antibodies infected people develop seem to deteriorate within 3-months, thus leaving the individual susceptible again.

20 hours ago, JosephM said:

NY State has approximately 19 million population. NYC has approximately 8.5 million. While herd immunity requires  60% or more of the population to have had the virus one can see that these 4 states are well on their way toward it and would obviously be showing less cases at this time than other states since they had such a high exposure during their initial peak.

Disagree.  It's not herd immunity, it's better anti-covid practices that are doing the heavy lifting.  

20 hours ago, JosephM said:

In conclusion, because these states seem to be under better control of covid-19 at this time that is no proof that the governors have handled it better than other states when you review all the data. I would add because of their population density it is also no proof that they have handled it any worse than other governors. The data only explains one of the many reasons why those states are seemingly having covid-19 under better control.

Stopping the spread by implementing better anti-covid practices is why different governors have handled it better.

[JosephM]

Well it seems logical to me that the more people that have recovered regardless of reaching true herd immunity the less the 2nd spike will be on start-up. The data from those 4 states is no coincidence and the 5 million people in NY that have recovered will definitely have an effect on a 2nd spike. The numbers don't lie and the graphs on the 2nd spikes are calibrated by the first spike which was greatest in those cities.

[PaulS]

10 hours ago, JosephM said:

Well it seems logical to me that the more people that have recovered regardless of reaching true herd immunity the less the 2nd spike will be on start-up. The data from those 4 states is no coincidence and the 5 million people in NY that have recovered will definitely have an effect on a 2nd spike. The numbers don't lie and the graphs on the 2nd spikes are calibrated by the first spike which was greatest in those cities.

That logic is yet to be scientifically verified and as I previously mentioned, the contrary actually seems to be what's getting verified - i.e. that antibodies developed to fight off covid deteriorate within 3 months thus leaving the individual susceptible again. 

The data just shows less the 2nd time around and I think it is much more reasonable to understand that there are less cases because people are practicing better hygiene protocols and social distancing now that they are starting to understand that herd immunity doesn't work. 

Sure the numbers don't lie, but the interpretation of what they mean can be erroneous.

 

[Elen1107]

This is Dr. Anthony Fauci on the C-virus and the reopenings. 

I'm not, nor is anyone in this forum, an immune biologist, or the head of the major health departments or task forces, but this guy is.

I saw another article by him yesterday, but I didn't save the link. Maybe I can still find it.

 

Edited August 9, 2020 by Elen1107

[JosephM]

17 hours ago, PaulS said:

That logic is yet to be scientifically verified and as I previously mentioned, the contrary actually seems to be what's getting verified - i.e. that antibodies developed to fight off covid deteriorate within 3 months thus leaving the individual susceptible again. 

The data just shows less the 2nd time around and I think it is much more reasonable to understand that there are less cases because people are practicing better hygiene protocols and social distancing now that they are starting to understand that herd immunity doesn't work. 

Sure the numbers don't lie, but the interpretation of what they mean can be erroneous.

 

The numbers I am talking about were the number of deaths extrapolated by the cdc formula to get a more realistic number of the people actually infected. Also the 3 months haven't really expired now except  to only to a minority of those infected  who had a weak antibody response. (about 17% of the people.

[Elen1107]

This is another interview with Dr. Fauci.

It seems that even after we have a vaccine, we may need to be practicing proper social distancing, mask wearing and hand washing for sometime

 

[PaulS]

6 hours ago, JosephM said:

The numbers I am talking about were the number of deaths extrapolated by the cdc formula to get a more realistic number of the people actually infected. Also the 3 months haven't really expired now except  to only to a minority of those infected  who had a weak antibody response. (about 17% of the people.

If we are reading the same study where you get the 17% from (King's College London study?), the study is actually saying that only 17% of the control group retained the same antibody potency some 3-months later.  That is to say that within 3 months of infection, about 83% of the group lost antibody effectiveness - hence no herd immunity.