Presidential Poll 2020

[thormas]

17 minutes ago, Elen1107 said:

5,464,431 Coronavirus Cases

171,284 Deaths

Just because Trump wanted to be popular and tell everyone what they wanted to hear, & to save his precious economy which he's ended up destroying because he won't listen to the medical experts.

 

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/us/

Exactly and sadly accurate.

[JosephM]

Paul,

Always 2 sides of the story on immunity...  While this doesn't negate King study, it shows that its only a possible suggestion and more research is needed before it is scientifically proven immunity disappears at some point in time.

-----------------------------------

But despite the anecdotal reports from doctors about patients becoming reinfected with the coronavirus, researchers say there's no evidence supporting the notion that people can become reinfected with the virus within a short time period.

"I haven't heard of a case where it's been truly unambiguously demonstrated," said Marc Lipsitch, an epidemiologist at the Harvard T.H. Chan School of Public Health.

For instance, South Korea's Center for Disease Control and Prevention in one study confirmed that, among 285 cases of people who again tested positive for the coronavirus two months after receiving their initial positive test results (including some who were experiencing Covid-19 symptoms two months after their initial diagnoses), none of the patients' new samples contained enough virus particles to allow researchers to grow the virus from the samples in a lab. Researchers said those results indicated that the patients weren't actively infected with the virus, and the diagnostic tests likely had detected dead virus particles that remained in their bodies or generated false-positive positive results.

Further, the researchers noted that none of the patients who re-tested positive for the coronavirus transmitted the pathogen to others.

"It was pretty solid epidemiological and virological evidence that reinfection was not happening, at least in those people," Angela Rasmussen, a virologist at Columbia University, said.

As for studies showing that antibodies for the novel coronavirus decline over time, researchers say that's how antibodies work for a host of viruses.

Michael Mina, an immunologist at Harvard University, said although those studies have left some people "scratching their heads saying, 'What an extraordinarily odd virus that it's not leading to robust immunity,' … they're totally wrong."

"It doesn't get more textbook than this," he added.

------------------------------------------------------

Reference : https://www.advisory.com/daily-briefing/2020/07/24/covid-reinfection

[Elen1107]

I've read two things about herd immunity:

One is that we get it the same way people got it in  the 1918 epidemic, where 50,000,000 (50 million) people died.

The other is that we get it through a vaccine.

I vote for number 2 !!

Thing is we really do need to play it safe and practice the CDC's and medical experts guidelines until we get a vaccine. We really do.

Edited August 15, 2020 by Elen1107

[Burl]

Russia released a Covid vaccine last week.

[JosephM]

2 hours ago, Elen1107 said:

Thing is we really do need to play it safe and practice the CDC's and medical experts guidelines until we get a vaccine. We really do.

Edited 1 hour ago by Elen1107

I don't disagree with that. Being over 70 i am particularly at risk and take the prescribed precautions you mention. What others do is up to them. Eventually foolishness will reveal itself to those who do not use wisdom. We can make suggestions to others but each ultimately must be responsible for their own actions. We can do our best to separate ourselves from those we believe might be choosing to act unwisely. The risk of harm is always greater in a free society and i prefer and am okay with that.

I have confidence in the talented people we have in this society and believe we will have many more vaccines being released  either before or just after the new year.

[Elen1107]

10 minutes ago, JosephM said:

I don't disagree with that. Being over 70 i am particularly at risk and take the prescribed precautions you mention. What others do is up to them. Eventually foolishness will reveal itself to those who do not use wisdom. We can make suggestions to others but each ultimately must be responsible for their own actions. We can do our best to separate ourselves from those we believe might be choosing to act unwisely. The risk of harm is always greater in a free society and i prefer and am okay with that.

 

I've got to say that I think that good leadership counts here. It's all well and good if individuals decide they want to wear masks and go along with the CDC's guidelines. Even if ALL individuals think about it and think they want to do it. If government and leadership doesn't get everyone on the same page, it's not going to work and it's not going to happen. Why would individuals go and wear a mask if everybody, or most of everybody, isn't going to do it? It just wouldn't make sense.

It's not just about what people do to and for themselves. Get that thing, that virus, circulating around the community, one's own community, and people could be asking for real problems and real hazards. They could be ripping their own communities apart. There also seems to be such a thing as "viral load". It's one thing if a person gets one or two viri, their bodies can probably handle it and flush it out. Get a whole lot of the virus from two or three different people and one could really be in trouble, no matter how young and healthy they are.

10 minutes ago, JosephM said:

I have confidence in the talented people we have in this society and believe we will have many more vaccines being released  either before or just after the new year.

That's what Dr. Fauci is saying, that he's cautiously optimistic that we'll have a vaccine by the beginning of next year.

I hope that you are staying safe and healthy. Best Wishes and Good Luck with everything. 

[Elen1107]

1 hour ago, Burl said:

Russia released a Covid vaccine last week.

Yeah, I heard that too.

Wonder how good it is, or if anyone will be able to access it besides people in Russia. 

Don't think I'll hold my breath on any of that helping people here in the US real soon.

Wonder if they'll share their recipe 

Edited August 16, 2020 by Elen1107

[JosephM]

11 hours ago, Elen1107 said:

I've got to say that I think that good leadership counts here. It's all well and good if individuals decide they want to wear masks and go along with the CDC's guidelines. Even if ALL individuals think about it and think they want to do it. If government and leadership doesn't get everyone on the same page, it's not going to work and it's not going to happen. Why would individuals go and wear a mask if everybody, or most of everybody, isn't going to do it? It just wouldn't make sense.

The U.S. Constitution uses federalism to divide governmental powers between the federal government and the individual state governments. The Tenth Amendment tells us that all powers not granted to the federal government are reserved to the states. I think we sometimes expect too much of the Federal government which as designed was meant to have its authority limited. I like that.  This gives me the freedom to move to a state that is more in line with my views in the way they operate and the laws of that state. For example i personally would not choose to live in California or New York because my views are not aligned with their state laws and the  way they operate.

The community in Florida i live in best reflex my views and i would say 90+ % of the people follow the CDC's recommendations. As a result, we have the lowest Covid-19 rate of the three counties surounding us and one of the lowest community rates. About everything is open and operating at 50% capacity seating. If i go to a restaurant that doesn't social distance or workers don't wear masks, i merely notify the manager and leave unless they comply. No hard feelings against them if they don't comply as there are many restaurants like minded as myself. So i will gladly choose another and hope all do likewise. We can only make choices for oneself. I don't expect others to make the same choices as me but their choice will have consequences and i don't need to share in them. I can always eat at home.

[thormas]

Even with the separation of powers which we have always had: it's still called Leadership. If the trumpeter 'said' we should all do this, if he modeled it, if he got the Congress behind him as a show of solidarity and if got on the phone with Governors  - we would have nearly if not complete nation wide compliance.

Leadership .............however we are rudderless.

If it impacts the entire nation, the nation needs to respond together............sadly the trumpeter only considers what impacts him.

 

[JosephM]

3 minutes ago, thormas said:

Even with the separation of powers which we have always had: it's still called Leadership. If the trumpeter 'said' we should all do this, if he modeled it, if he got the Congress behind him as a show of solidarity and if got on the phone with Governors  - we would have nearly if not complete nation wide compliance.

Leadership .............however we are rudderless.

If it impacts the entire nation, the nation needs to respond together............sadly the trumpeter only considers what impacts him.

 

Speak for yourself!  You may be rudderless .. but each man/woman has their own rudder and a mind to chart their own course within the limits of the law. 

[thormas]

12 minutes ago, JosephM said:

Speak for yourself!  You may be rudderless .. but each man/woman has their own rudder and a mind to chart their own course within the limits of the law. 

We are all citizens of the same country, now in crisis, with no true leadership at the top. 

There is something 'bigger' than our own course as has been evident in times past when we pulled together and were encouraged to look beyond ourselves for a greater need, for a greater cause by real leaders.

Edited August 16, 2020 by thormas

[thormas]

12 hours ago, Elen1107 said:

I've got to say that I think that good leadership counts here.

Well said Elen - completely on point.

[thormas]

The trumpster's brother, Robert Trump. died this weekend.

The trumpster describes his brother as also his best friend. He flys in and out to see him and leaves for his country club. Most people would stay till the end for a brother and a best friend or at least come back later or the next day.

This is odd ............but we are dealing with a narcissistic sociopath - so he before everybody else. And we all are the worse for it.

 

[Elen1107]

On 8/16/2020 at 9:43 AM, JosephM said:

The U.S. Constitution uses federalism to divide governmental powers between the federal government and the individual state governments. The Tenth Amendment tells us that all powers not granted to the federal government are reserved to the states. I think we sometimes expect too much of the Federal government which as designed was meant to have its authority limited. I like that.  This gives me the freedom to move to a state that is more in line with my views in the way they operate and the laws of that state. For example i personally would not choose to live in California or New York because my views are not aligned with their state laws and the  way they operate.

 

It's nice that you are able to move to and live in a state that best reflect your views and understanding of things. It would be nice if everyone could do that without too much hardship.

I agree that there is a limit to what the feds can legislate and do legally on the state level, & some of this is good and sometimes creates a relevant balance.

However, the precedent that the President sets is also important. The leadership that the President gives and models can carry real weight and influence, whether or not he/she is enacting or directing the laws on the state levels.

On 8/16/2020 at 9:43 AM, JosephM said:

The community in Florida i live in best reflex my views and i would say 90+ % of the people follow the CDC's recommendations. As a result, we have the lowest Covid-19 rate of the three counties surounding us and one of the lowest community rates. About everything is open and operating at 50% capacity seating. If i go to a restaurant that doesn't social distance or workers don't wear masks, i merely notify the manager and leave unless they comply. No hard feelings against them if they don't comply as there are many restaurants like minded as myself. So i will gladly choose another and hope all do likewise. We can only make choices for oneself. I don't expect others to make the same choices as me but their choice will have consequences and i don't need to share in them. I can always eat at home.

I too choose to go to places that are serious about following the CDC's guidelines. I'm not eating out while covid is going on, but in choosing where I buy groceries and other necessities, I'm much more supportive and appreciative of those organizations that care and take things for real and seriously. "Wearing is Caring" is something that one sees on the electronic billboards around here.

Thing is, if organizations and groups and individuals in my area are not following the guidelines, they are not just affecting themselves and putting themselves at risk. They are spreading this thing, this covid, all over my community and my neighborhood. Why can't they be considerate and conscientious? This is just one year out of people's lives where they need to do things differently. It's not the end of the world, (hopfully) if they can't go out and party and socialize for one whole year.

We will get a vaccine, it's just a matter of time. In the mean time is it too much to ask that people keep the infection and "kill" rate down?

[Elen1107]

On 8/16/2020 at 10:14 AM, thormas said:

Even with the separation of powers which we have always had: it's still called Leadership. If the trumpeter 'said' we should all do this, if he modeled it, if he got the Congress behind him as a show of solidarity and if got on the phone with Governors  - we would have nearly if not complete nation wide compliance.

 

Very well said. Thank You

[Elen1107]

On 8/16/2020 at 11:59 AM, thormas said:

The trumpster's brother, Robert Trump. died this weekend.

The trumpster describes his brother as also his best friend. He flys in and out to see him and leaves for his country club. Most people would stay till the end for a brother and a best friend or at least come back later or the next day.

This is odd ............but we are dealing with a narcissistic sociopath - so he before everybody else. And we all are the worse for it.

 

No one is stating what Robert died of - I'm wondering why?

In this article it states that Trump said this about his brother, “the only guy in my life whom I ever call honey."

Do guys usually do that? - Just thought I'd ask

https://www.msn.com/en-in/news/world/robert-trump-the-president-c3-a2-c2-80-c2-99s-younger-brother-dead-at-71/ar-BB180XI2

[thormas]

1 hour ago, Elen1107 said:

In this article it states that Trump said this about his brother, “the only guy in my life whom I ever call honey."

Do guys usually do that? - Just thought I'd ask

None that I know of but actually, when addressed to a beloved brother, is is kind of sweet. 

[Elen1107]

4 minutes ago, thormas said:

None that I know of but actually, when addressed to a beloved brother, is is kind of sweet. 

Have you read the book just published by Trump's niece, "Too Much and Never Enough"?

Amazon gives a pretty good number of pages to preview it. Just click on the jacket cover. I found the Epilogue rather interesting.

https://www.amazon.com/Too-Much-Never-Enough-Dangerous/dp/1982141468

I didn't realize his niece was a PHD psychologist or something. 

[thormas]

35 minutes ago, Elen1107 said:

Have you read the book just published by Trump's niece, "Too Much and Never Enough"?

Amazon gives a pretty good number of pages to preview it. Just click on the jacket cover. I found the Epilogue rather interesting.

https://www.amazon.com/Too-Much-Never-Enough-Dangerous/dp/1982141468

I didn't realize his niece was a PHD psychologist or something. 

I've seen her interviewed and heard excerpts on TV but reading about a known narcissist and sociopath, even from an expert, is not really of interest to me.

Same with his ex-lawyer's book: I'll hear about it but have no interest in purchasing it as I might need to buy another biblical scholar's book to discuss with Paul.☺️

 

[Elen1107]

19 minutes ago, thormas said:

I've seen her interviewed and heard excerpts on TV but reading about a known narcissist and sociopath, even from an expert, is not really of interest to me.

Same with his ex-lawyer's book: I'll hear about it but have no interest in purchasing it as I might need to buy another biblical scholar's book to discuss with Paul.☺️

 

The DNC starts tonight. Governor Cuomo is speaking at it tonight too.

 

Edited August 17, 2020 by Elen1107

[Elen1107]

Folks who use YouTube can catch the DNC here. One can even set a reminder for tonight and the next four days at their YouTube link

https://www.youtube.com/demconvention

[JosephM]

8 hours ago, Elen1107 said:

It's nice that you are able to move to and live in a state that best reflect your views and understanding of things. It would be nice if everyone could do that without too much hardship.

I agree that there is a limit to what the feds can legislate and do legally on the state level, & some of this is good and sometimes creates a relevant balance.

However, the precedent that the President sets is also important. The leadership that the President gives and models can carry real weight and influence, whether or not he/she is enacting or directing the laws on the state levels.

Elen, you may be right . For me, the president is not perfect but neither am i. I will not assume that i know what it is like to walk in his shoes and deal with the clientele that make up the rest of government and the slanted new media controlled by powerful people. We all live in the same country  but with a myriad of views, different perspectives. It's a wonder with so many congressmen and woman and senator that anything  gets done at that level. I am in awe over it. It's like over 400 cooks in the kitchen trying to determine which recipe for supper is best. 🙂

 

8 hours ago, Elen1107 said:

Thing is, if organizations and groups and individuals in my area are not following the guidelines, they are not just affecting themselves and putting themselves at risk. They are spreading this thing, this covid, all over my community and my neighborhood. Why can't they be considerate and conscientious? This is just one year out of people's lives where they need to do things differently. It's not the end of the world, (hopfully) if they can't go out and party and socialize for one whole year.

Why can't they? Because they can't help being who they are at this moment in time. It is what it is. One can set an example but otherwise each of us ultimately has to want to change and much of the time suffering in the only catalyst for that change. Life is in my view all about personal choices and consequences and we can only make our own.

It's easy to criticize, judge, and point fingers at things or people we have limited knowledge of or are viewing from a limited perspective through a dark lens. I hope and pray for the best and do what is in my power and given talent to do and leave the rest to that which is All in All. I refuse to allow the things of this world to rob my given peace and joy and as the prayer goes " God grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, courage to change the things I can, and wisdom to know the difference.”

[Elen1107]

On 8/17/2020 at 11:01 PM, JosephM said:

Elen, you may be right . For me, the president is not perfect but neither am i. I will not assume that i know what it is like to walk in his shoes and deal with the clientele that make up the rest of government and the slanted new media controlled by powerful people. We all live in the same country  but with a myriad of views, different perspectives. It's a wonder with so many congressmen and woman and senator that anything  gets done at that level. I am in awe over it. It's like over 400 cooks in the kitchen trying to determine which recipe for supper is best. 🙂

 

I don't expect "perfect", I do expect competent. 

People have got to learn to elect people who can work together. The extremes that we have trying to work together right now is just not working.

On 8/17/2020 at 11:01 PM, JosephM said:

Why can't they? Because they can't help being who they are at this moment in time. It is what it is. One can set an example but otherwise each of us ultimately has to want to change and much of the time suffering in the only catalyst for that change. Life is in my view all about personal choices and consequences and we can only make our own.

It's easy to criticize, judge, and point fingers at things or people we have limited knowledge of or are viewing from a limited perspective through a dark lens. I hope and pray for the best and do what is in my power and given talent to do and leave the rest to that which is All in All. I refuse to allow the things of this world to rob my given peace and joy and as the prayer goes " God grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, courage to change the things I can, and wisdom to know the difference.”

I know Trump can't, or perhaps shouldn't, go around legislating things on the state level(s). But if he had just stood up and told that truth, and at least had recommended and demonstrated the CDC guidelines, I think that a lot more people would have followed them and there would be a lot less virus spread and death. If he had just put on a mask, much much earlier on, and told the people that it was a good idea, and told people to reopen in phases as the CDC recommends, the reopening in the US would have gone much, much better. We are lagging so far behind in the way it's been handled in other countries it's just shameful.

There are people who are saying, that on their death bed, their loved one made the dying statement that they made one mistake, that the trusted Trump. It's just too sad.

[thormas]

2 hours ago, Elen1107 said:

I know Trump can't, or perhaps shouldn't, go around legislating things on the state level(s). But if he had just stood up and told that truth, and at least had recommended and demonstrated the CDC guidelines, I think that a lot more people would have followed them and there would be a lot less virus spread and death. If he had just put on a mask, much much earlier on, and told the people that it was a good idea, and told people to reopen in phases as the CDC recommends, the reopening in the US would have gone much, much better. We are lagging so far behind in the way it's been handled in other countries it's just shameful.

There are people who are saying, that on their death bed, their loved one made the dying statement that they made one mistake, that the trusted Trump. It's just too sad.

You've hit the nail on the head Elen!!!!!

[thormas]

And now the trumpster says all he know is that the crazy QAnon like him and he appreciates it. I bet he thinks these crazies are 'fine people' just like the white supremacist groups.