Presidential Poll 2020

[romansh]

12 minutes ago, thormas said:

A vote for the presidential candidate is a vote for his/her electors and they are 'committed' to that candidate/party.

When you say 'committed' is that by law or precedent?

What is causing the electors to give 100% of the electors' s votes one way or another?

I'm not sure how I can ask this question to get a direct answer.

[thormas]

I believe they are chosen by the party and thereafter committed to the candidate. So, logically, for example, they are Republicans, committed to that party and its presidential candidate so that is the only person they vote for. Not really sure about the law issue.

[Burl]

7 minutes ago, romansh said:

When you say 'committed' is that by law or precedent?

What is causing the electors to give 100% of the electors' s votes one way or another?

I'm not sure how I can ask this question to get a direct answer.

It varies by state.

[romansh]

1 minute ago, Burl said:

It varies by state.

Thank you …  that is what I suspected.

The next question is can the various States change this so the is more representative of the electorates wishes?

[thormas]

That's all I've got. If you google it, all your questions will receive answers.

[Burl]

12 minutes ago, romansh said:

Thank you …  that is what I suspected.

The next question is can the various States change this so the is more representative of the electorates wishes?

Yes they can. 

The entire American system was based on state independence.  The civil war  screwed this up and started the trend towards a central corporatization.

[JosephM]

4 hours ago, romansh said:

OK if I understand it correctly California Electors by law must cast all 55 votes in favour of Democrats if the Democrats win the popular vote in California? Or is this just precedent?

from wiki

Even though the aggregate national popular vote is calculated by state officials, media organizations, and the Federal Election Commission, the people only indirectly elect the president, as the national popular vote is not the basis for electing the president

Yes they  are required to in California to cast all 55 votes to the popular vote winner along with  28 other states with that requirement.

Others states follow  precedent . The electorates are from their party and not bound but  it is possible but rare that they would turn on their own party. Republicans and Democrats have their own electorate. If a Democrat wins popular vote only the Democratic electorate vote. But yes it is possible in certain states for him to cross over, just not very likely since they are chosen by the corresponding party. I was once chosen as an electorate in KY  but never voted because my candidate did not win. I was chosen by the candidate because i was a major donor in the party and they trusted me.

Yes the popular vote in that state is the basis for electing the president through the layer of a winning party electorate. 

Hope that helps

 

Edited February 8, 2020 by JosephM

[TheTechnician]

Ok, so if I am looking at things from a completely faith based standpoint, at least 70% of our current leaders are corrupt and by old testament standard should be stoned to death for their slights against God by the community at large. But as I always say, ours is not to judge, that's someone else's job.

 

Either way we do not have a really good, honest, forthright candidate on either side. I will most likely write in my dog because she is all about love.

 

After Trump slammed Romney and people of faith in general during a "prayer" breakfast (Trump is only Christian in name, not in his actions) I lost what little respect I had for the man (which wasn't much). He is evil, self serving, self absorbed and puts a bad face on our country. Even after all I have said above, I still pray everyday for our Lord God to please show the folks in power Grace, Faith, Hope and Love and to behave as The Bible teaches us. Let's face facts, both sides are acting like elementary schools children having an argument on the playground. 

Vote your conscience, not your party.

 

~Faith, Hope and Love~

[JosephM]

45 minutes ago, TheTechnician said:

(snip)

Even after all I have said above, I still pray everyday for our Lord God to please show the folks in power Grace, Faith, Hope and Love and to behave as The Bible teaches us. Let's face facts, both sides are acting like elementary schools children having an argument on the playground. 

Vote your conscience, not your party.

~Faith, Hope and Love~

Good point. I think the important thing is to wish the best for everyone that they as you say ...  might grow in grace, faith and love/compassion for others. (even IF the Bible taught differently which it doesn't)

 

[PaulS]

There seems to be significant division and aggression growing within the US.  Is the US headed towards massive civil unrest?  If Trump is re-elected, will it calm the country or inflame differences?  Is Trump bringing the US people together or driving them apart?  Or is there another explanation for this exponential growth in division and aggression we see coming from the Home of the Free?

https://www.theaustralian.com.au/inquirer/land-of-the-fearful-home-of-the-heavily-armed-and-hateful/news-story/6ec95cf2dd7ea519d084ed99dc3fd450

 

[thormas]

The impeached trumpster  has been a divider even before he took office. He caters to his base and has no concern for those states who do not support him - or even those who did in the past but he no longer likes their Democratic Governor (ala Michigan and NC). 

The impeached trumpster doesn't even pretend to bring the people together, nor is he capable (see David Brooks op-ed in yesterday's NYT).

The latest civil unrest is over the murder of a black citizen in MN and our divider-in-chief states that looting leads to shooting - supposedly ignorant of its origin. I do love that Twitter is shutting him up!

The trumpster's re-election would be another nail in the coffin of the US - a coffin that he build over his first term. Many, many people simply ignore the trumpster and listen to their governors and the health experts. He has no credibility with over half of the people - now they just must vote (note the trumpster's lies and attempts to prevent mail-in-voting that would allow more to vote in a time when their health might be endangered by Covid - the more who vote, the worse it is for Mr. impeachment). An elected official who is afraid to allow and make easy the right to vote for all the people is simply a tragedy.

Some of the divisions predated him as there are real, sincere differences in what is best but he has fanned the flames and created new fires throughout the land.

 

What is sad are those Republicans who in an earlier time would confront such behavior but now cower in fear if they raise their heads or speak out - all except a man like Romney.

 

Hey did the other universe you visited have an impeached trumpster?  If not, that could vibe an ideal vacation spot.

 

Edited May 30, 2020 by thormas

[JosephM]

Well Thomas, 

That post is certainly a good example of the division. Note your repeated use of the disrespectful words, impeached, trumpster, and statements like incapable, divider,  twitter shutting him up, no credibility, liar, afraid, etc.

It is no secret that this has been brewing for a long time. It is no secret that Washington and newspapers has been a cesspool for leaks  and corruption on both sides. People voted for Trump in 2016 because he is not afraid to tell it like it is. How else could he win the republican nomination against 17 other well known major candidates.  Trump is not perfect, has a big ego and character flaws as do most all leadership here but he is not part of the system that gives lip service only. The abundance of politically biased newspapers here  look for and put a negative rant and out of context quotes on all he does. He must be doing something that deserves a little praise every once in a while  but you won't find it in the news and a lot of the people can see through it . Will it be enough to get him re-elected, i don't know. What i do know is those who were in control before have been trying to get rid of him before he was elected and his base of discontents with the media and Washington in general is bigger than you might suppose. We accuse other countries of news propaganda to their people and say we have free press but i think there is more control than we would admit. We accuse others of meddling in our election as if that is a great evil and yet our government has a long history in meddling in others including assassinations. http://rozenbergquarterly.com/noam-chomsky-on-the-long-history-of-us-meddling-in-foreign-elections/

Even our own parties meddle in our elections . The Hillary emails show that the democratic party sided with Hillary over Bernie Sanders in 2016 and did everything in their power to rob the election from him instead of being neutral and letting the people decide in  the primaries. The people THINK they choose the primary candidate for the party but that seems to be the exception rather than the rule. With Trump, the Republican party didn't want him until they saw that people were fed up with the typical groomed politicians whose refined and well mannered and chosen words no longer meant anything to them.  Wake up America! Earl Pitts here....    🙂🙂😀😛

[thormas]

1 hour ago, JosephM said:

That post is certainly a good example of the division. Note your repeated use of the disrespectful words, impeached, trumpster, and statements like incapable, divider,  twitter shutting him up, no credibility, liar, afraid, etc.

Please Joseph, the man was impeached so that is accurate and historical, plus he deserves no respect, he never gives' respect' (and that ebbs and flows and is removed if they cross him) to any but his toadies. The office is respected, this man is not! And the trumpster moniker is more than appropriate and captures what he does and is:  I don't use his name.  He constantly bullies others, comments on the weight of women and then there is his latest comment on Hillary.  calls for violence, lies about everything, attempts to limit the vote, etc. To have voted for him in hope and ignorance is one thing, to vote again, knowing full well who he is, what he does and how the country and its people suffer - it to assume responsibility and give consent to all that he is, all that he does. 

Joseph, even you must realize with 'leaks and corruption' - that the trumpster has taken it to a new level and a level where the country is being damaged. Evident in his purges of the best talent in his administration and those responsible for oversight. He selects loyalists, those who have no experience, those with their own agenda (I give you De Vos), those who are simply not talented and have no courage to stand up and say, "No" when they see his intentions and actions - a far cry from Lincoln's band of rivals. Don't excuse him by citing problems in the system. The trumpster is not perfect but no one expects that from men and women who serve 'the country' but what we expect is one who is a president for all, concerned for all, will fight the good fight and not become a bully who lies repeatedly to the people, engages in school yard name calling, degrades women constantly, ignores the constitution (and the legitimate role of congress) and on and on and on. 

Even Fox is seeing the light, it's just that other outlets were doing their job well before more on Fox caught up.

If there is something which deserves praise it is overwhelmed by the horror show that is the trumpster.

Joseph, you sound like a conspiracy buff: who and how were people 'in control' trying to get rid of him before the election? Nobody expected the trumpeter to win........not even him? So you don't actually know this! Press control? Fake news on top of conspiracy craziness. We have previously discussed meddling before (I believe) and we can discuss the ethics of such ventures but don't dodge the issue - we are talking about meddling in our election and the impeached trumpster trying to suppress the vote (totally unAmerican for him and any who support this effort). We also know about previous meddling (ala Kennedy) but Bernie then as now just did not have the votes in spite of how the DNC felt about him. Rob him?.......yet another conspiracy theory. Prove that we didn't elect Hillary (whom I never liked) over Bernie. 

The trumpster certainly give lip service to Christians, racists, white supremacists, bigots, isolationists, those who fear a growing diversity in the country (when they will be the minority),  etc..........so much for not being part of the system. He was always doing this, it was all lip service and most of saw it on the stage with all those other candidates.

[JosephM]

Wake up Thomas!  ...... Earl Pitts here.... 🙂🙂😀😛

[thormas]

24 minutes ago, JosephM said:

Wake up Thomas!  ...... Earl Pitts here....

Joseph,

....the impeached trumpeter - liar, braggart, unlettered, without empathy, total narcissist. misogynist, racist, unAmerican, anti-constitutional and so many more horrible things - is the pitts and the nation is the worst for it!

[PaulS]

So I guess that's a no concerning a re-elected Trump being able to bring the nation together?

[thormas]

10 hours ago, PaulS said:

So I guess that's a no concerning a re-elected Trump being able to bring the nation together?

You are indeed a wise man :+}

He's doing a great job right now concerning the triple crisis: pandemic, unemployment and protests...............NOT! The guy is a failed leader and man but give him a woman to grope, a man to demean, a minority to dismiss and he's in his element

[JosephM]

11 hours ago, PaulS said:

So I guess that's a no concerning a re-elected Trump being able to bring the nation together?

Sometimes ... people have to be divided (or separated) before they can come back together stronger. 

Edited June 1, 2020 by JosephM

[thormas]

22 minutes ago, JosephM said:

Sometimes things have to be divided before they can come back together stronger. 

The impeached trumpster divided us and now if falls to someone else to enable us to come together stronger. The trumpster simple is not capable.............

[JosephM]

Thomas,

It sounds like you might be a bit biased. Here is a rare US news article from June of 2018 that i think hits the spot.

https://www.usnews.com/opinion/thomas-jefferson-street/articles/2018-01-16/the-economy-is-booming-under-trump-but-mainstream-media-wont-tell-you-that

It pretty well speaks to my view of the issue if read in its entirety.

 

Edited June 1, 2020 by JosephM

[thormas]

53 minutes ago, JosephM said:

It sounds like you might be a bit biased.

...............but not more biased than those who approve of and vote for the impeached trumpster and accept his illusion/delusion but definitely less biased because it is very easy to see the man he is (and isn't) and the havoc he unleashes on all, i.e. reality.

 

[thormas]

6 hours ago, JosephM said:

Thomas,

It sounds like you might be a bit biased. Here is a rare US news article from June of 2018 that i think hits the spot.

https://www.usnews.com/opinion/thomas-jefferson-street/articles/2018-01-16/the-economy-is-booming-under-trump-but-mainstream-media-wont-tell-you-that

It pretty well speaks to my view of the issue if read in its entirety.

 

Did you get this off a trumpster website? It goes nowhere.

The economy is (was) growing - under the impeached one but the boom stated with Obama: this information up to around the end of 2019 and some into January 2020

unemployment under Obama dropped from 10% to 4.7%, - the trumpster brought it from 4.7 to 3.6  (the impeached one's most  significant economic policy, his $1.9 trillion tax cuts, did not take effect until January 2018—a year after he took office. By that time, (because of Obama) unemployment had dropped from 4.7 to 4.1 percent, household incomes had increased $850 and 2.3 million new jobs had been created).

76 months of job growth under Obama, the trumpster extended it to 109-111 (i.e 33-35 months of growth) 

stock market almost 150% growth under Obama; 40% under trumpster (his claim to fame although half or more of Americans are not in the market)

Greg Mankiw, chairman of the Council of Economic Advisers under George W. Bush, states that“... the economy was in fine shape at the end of the Obama administration, despite what PresidentTrump sometimes asserts.”

 

The problem Joseph is of the trumpster's own making: if he acknowledged the debt he owed to Obama, recognized the accomplishments of Obama coming off the Great Recession, if he were less narcissistic and more humble, more concerned about truth than his ego, then people and the press would not have to constantly fact check him and correct his inflated statements. i.e. lies that too many of his followers amazingly accept as fact and give full praise to the impeached tangerine.

 

Biden is correct: November is a vote for the soul of America. But the trumpster think it is about everything being under the sole of his very small shoe :+}

 

 

Edited June 1, 2020 by thormas

[thormas]

On 5/31/2020 at 8:58 AM, JosephM said:

The Hillary emails show that the democratic party sided with Hillary over Bernie Sanders in 2016 and did everything in their power to rob the election from him instead of being neutral and letting the people decide in  the primaries.

High court declines to take up Sanders supporters' lawsuit

dismissed by lower courts and the Supremes let it stay there.

[JosephM]

3 hours ago, thormas said:

Did you get this off a trumpster website?

No , US News and World Report.

 

[thormas]

2 hours ago, JosephM said:

No , US News and World Report.

That was tongue in cheek yet still the link goes nowhere........thus the connection to a trumpster website ..................going nowhere:+}