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Elen1107

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Elen1107 last won the day on July 19

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About Elen1107

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    God and JC - non hyper-literalistic Christianity - what makes people tick and who really is my Good neighbor - myself (at least a little bit) as equal to and on par with my Good neighbor - art, lyrics, music, nature, science,... more...

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  1. Don't want to get back into the conversation,... but just happened to run into this verse. - since we were discussing whether Jesus could read and write earlier, this verse at least states that he could read: Luke 4: 16 He went to Nazareth, where he had been brought up, and on the Sabbath day he went into the synagogue, as was his custom. He stood up to read, 17 and the scroll of the prophet Isaiah was handed to him. Unrolling it, he found the place where it is written:... Just thought I'd mention and share it.
  2. I myself hope to keep putting God, the HS & JC first, and people and myself second in line after these. I used to do things the other way around and it didn't work out well for me at all. If you call this "theism", that's fine. I rather like the word theism, myself. Where people like Spong and other PCs use the word theism or theistic, I tend to rather use the words deity or deists or deisms. To me it means something like a man in the sky in a robe with a long white beard. As much as I love one of the pictures on the Sistine Chapel, that depicts god like this, I really don't think that's G
  3. Read JS Spong's book, 'The Sins of the Scriptures". there's a whole book full of what can be considered "bile", and one could even add to it a bit. I'm not really interested in having this/these conversations, & don't really have the time. You believe that Jesus was an apocalyptic Jew and that he was wrong.... I don't. - - For one thing I think that apocalyptic thinking like this is kind of dumb. To think that one day God is going to blow down this whole wide world and then build it up again in a day or a year or whatever, ta-da, just like that, is just kind of stupid. I don't th
  4. Well, perhaps it's not ALL the same word. Perhaps some of it IS and some of it isn't. Perhaps some of it has been edited and insertions have been made, to reflect what ever these editors and inserters wanted to add or take away from Jesus's message. If people just accept the Spirit of Christ within them, they/we can better discern what is and are Jesus's true messages and wisdom. Perhaps if people just had that, or just went with that, or gave more credence and importance to just that, then we wouldn't be in the awful, confusing muddle we are in now about what is and what isn't the real a
  5. Apparently a number of people who wrote about Jesus were apocalyptic or at least partially apocalyptic in their thinking. This does not mean that Jesus was. It just means that the people who wrote about him after his ministry were. People with true faith and belief in Christ. Or, it could have been just based in their faith in Christ
  6. What we are focusing on is was Jesus apocalyptic and was this the way and the only way that he and the Jews of the 1st C. saw and understood the coming of the Kingdom. I'm saying that it is quite possible that Jesus was not apocalyptic. I'm also saying that it is quite possible that there were Jews and Gentiles who were not apocalyptic, and that they saw the coming of the Kingdom in a different way and form, rather than the apocalyptic one.
  7. The problem with these books is that they are a mixture of truth and fiction and outright bile. Some parts a truth and worth quoting and are good messages. Other parts are vile and mean and even down right evil. The fact that they are mixed and presented as "the word of God" creates a kind of mindbender that really can mess people up and can even create a kind of psychological illness. Those who are into hierarchical thinking and hierarchical ways of living. Those with control trips and who are into controlling others. Governments, religious leaderships, parents, gender dominance, peo
  8. No, people first knew about him from his presence and the spoken words that he gave his first followers. Then people knew about him from the spoken words and presence of these followers. Today we can know about him by his spiritual presence in our lives, and the few words that are spoken about him that tell us where and when he walked this earth. The few words, "Jesus is (the) Christ", though they are written down and canonized with a lot of other stuff, can just as well be passed down orally and verbally. That's the way it was in the beginning. Is there any reason why it shouldn't sti
  9. I thought we were talking about whether Jesus was an apocalyptic Jew or not. If you, and these scholars believe that Jesus was an apocalyptic Jew, because Paul and other Jews were apocalyptic in their thinking,... I don't see how one statement necessarily leads to and concludes the other. On their own simple and inspired faith and the inspired faith of others being passed along orally and spiritually through time and through the ages.
  10. I just found this on this subject: Jewish Sects of the 1st Century (1) Harvard’s renowned late scholar Jacob Neusner wrote in Judaism When Christianity Began, p.5, 50: “Judaism divides into Judaisms….Judaisms that flourished in Second Temple times, before 70 CE, when the Temple was destroyed.” There were several “Judaisms” in the Holy Land. This two-part topic identifies seven main Jewish religious sects or groups extant in the Land in the 1st century. The time when Jesus lived as a Jew and the temple still existed. Part 1 discusses the Scribes, Pharisees, Sadducees. P
  11. I don't know if everyone would call Rohr a "scholar" or not. He did receive his masters degree in theology from the University of Dayton in 1970. Regardless, he's a pretty bright and enlightened guy. --------------------------- The Jews passed down their oral traditions for thousands of years before they were written down. The native Americans in this country have been passing down "sacred" stories for thousands of years, and they have just become written down in this past century or two. I know people who believe that we would still know about Jesus even if the books hadn't been p
  12. I can only remember the name of one scholar, it was Young. In the late 70's early 80's I did some studying at big city libraries and ecclesiastical libraries. Some of the crap I read really made me cringe. This was before people like Spong and Ehrman and before the internet. Just recently I read someone who was claiming to be a "scholar" who said that all the books of the NT had been written before like 55 CE and that he was sure of it and all this stuff. I didn't save his name or the link, I just closed the page and moved on. I guess that people can find "scholars" to tell them what ever they
  13. I can only remember the name of one scholar, it was Young. In the late 70's early 80's I did some studying at big city libraries and ecclesiastical libraries. Some of the crap I read really made me cringe. This was before people like Spong and Ehrman and before the internet. Just recently I read someone who was claiming to be a "scholar" who said that all the books of the NT had been written before like 55 CE and that he was sure of it and all this stuff. I didn't save his name or the link, I just closed the page and moved on. I guess that people can find "scholars" to tell them what ever they
  14. Here are two verses from the Pauline letters about the Sabbath:, There might be more, I'm not sure. Colossians 2:16 https://www.biblehub.com/colossians/2-16.htm Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day. Romans 14:5 https://www.biblehub.com/romans/14-5.htm In the same way, some think one day is more holy than another day, while others think every day is alike. You should each be fully convinced that whichever day you choose is acceptable.
  15. All I know is that no one used to say that about Jesus. All of a sudden it became pop, and trendy and the thing to say to make a person look intelligent, & then everyone was saying it. I've encountered "serious" scholars that have been at it for decades. Some of them have a lot of good insights and info. that they pass along and others, not so much. Most of them are a mixed package. For myself right now it seems to be about how much of a mix of what and what are they conveying, (to use the words of one of the early church fathers, "mix of truth and bile")? I'm finding that I don't agr
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