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Romney a man for all seasons, the trumpster a man for ..............well, himself.

It varies by state.

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I would find it hard to vote if I was a US citizen.  I lean toward Republican policies but think Trump and many (i.e. a lot of) GOP members are bad for the country.  That said, there's a lot of negatives on the Democratic side also.  Then there's the notion of supporting a smaller party or independent who in actual fact probably are a better quality candidate, but to me that's a wasted vote because it just doesn't count enough at the end of the day.

As I'm not a US citizen, my preference is for somebody that can improve America's relations with the rest of the world.

So with a heavy heart, I vote that I would prefer to see Warren as President (followed by Sanders) but could easily consider a GOP vote if there was another candidate put forward in Trump's stead (more substantial than Walsh or Weld that is).

Who do I think is going to win?  Sadly, at this point, I think Trump will get across the line again.😢   But that's not what the poll is asking.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Paul,

Actually , I am a registered independent here but i have voted for both democrat and republican presidents. Occasionally i have changed so i am allowed to vote in the primaries but then i usually switch back to independent. Neither party is ideal and it seems to work best with some balance and occasional change from one party  to another. Overall i think this is a wonderful country to live in  though very large  cities seem to have their problems that i choose to avoid. The problem with news in the US, in my view, is that it is too much sensationalism with 90 % or so being negative and politically biased. It seems they can say whatever they want whether its true or not and base it on sources that they say are not named for the quote based on the condition of anonymity which they do not have to reveal. It is an abused power used in the news.

In my view, not too many honest and truly caring people run for US office as it takes too much money and influence to do so which inherently breeds corruption with the perceived power that comes with it. So we do the best we can to keep them in check with what we have to work with. 🙂

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2 hours ago, JosephM said:

In my view, not too many honest and truly caring people run for US office

And you ran for Senate 

Yet I believe people like Mitch McConnell, Trump, Hillary, Hitler believe they are on the side of the angels. And therein lies the problem.

A Campbell quote ...

  • “You yourself are participating in evil, or you are not alive. Whatever you do is evil to someone. This is one of the ironies of creation.”

So this relates to whether our politicians, even past prospective ones fall on some continuum of evil. Campbell also says:

“ … one of the greatest challenges in life is to say “yea” to that person or act or that condition which in your mind is most abominable.”

While I might not say yeah to the likes of McConnell and Trump I do understand they and everyone else cannot do otherwise. So divvying up into good and evil is pointless. Note that Campbell does not suggest we should not find some of politicians abominable.

But to answer the original question … anyone but Trump. Primaries Yang … but that would be like spoiling my vote so some pragmaticism maybe required?

Edited by romansh
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9 hours ago, romansh said:

And you ran for Senate 

Yet I believe people like Mitch McConnell, Trump, Hillary, Hitler believe they are on the side of the angels. And therein lies the problem.

(snip)

But to answer the original question … anyone but Trump. Primaries Yang … but that would be like spoiling my vote so some pragmaticism maybe required?

😄😄 Well , i did say "not too many" . I guess that could include me. 😄

Trump is my choice. He's like an alligator in the swamp in DC, a junkyard dog, just what our political scene and the country needs at this time. His very unorthodox way makes for  a love or hate relationship with people here. 🙂     

 

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13 hours ago, JosephM said:

Trump is my choice. He's like an alligator in the swamp in DC, a junkyard dog, just what our political scene and the country needs at this time.

And yet he epitomizes those that ran against you for Senate.

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4 hours ago, romansh said:

And yet he epitomizes those that ran against you for Senate.

Only in your mind and according to the media here.. 🙂

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29 minutes ago, JosephM said:

Only in your mind and according to the media here

So are we going to be reduced to a "it's your opinion" type discussion or are we going to bring evidence to bear?

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16 hours ago, romansh said:

So are we going to be reduced to a "it's your opinion" type discussion or are we going to bring evidence to bear?

#1 This is the cafe, not the debate center. Best for light chatting and comments.

#2 Yes it is my opinion and i am not interested in debating or discussing it further.

If others wish to , the Debate and Discussion forum section would be more appropriate

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On 1/25/2020 at 10:42 PM, JosephM said:

Paul,

Actually , I am a registered independent here but i have voted for both democrat and republican presidents. Occasionally i have changed so i am allowed to vote in the primaries but then i usually switch back to independent. Neither party is ideal and it seems to work best with some balance and occasional change from one party  to another. Overall i think this is a wonderful country to live in  though very large  cities seem to have their problems that i choose to avoid. The problem with news in the US, in my view, is that it is too much sensationalism with 90 % or so being negative and politically biased. It seems they can say whatever they want whether its true or not and base it on sources that they say are not named for the quote based on the condition of anonymity which they do not have to reveal. It is an abused power used in the news.

In my view, not too many honest and truly caring people run for US office as it takes too much money and influence to do so which inherently breeds corruption with the perceived power that comes with it. So we do the best we can to keep them in check with what we have to work with. 🙂

I didn't know that you had to/could register there to identify as an independent, or that you can register as either Rep or Dem.  In Australia, you can choose to be a member of a political party which then allows you some voice as to who gets put forward as a candidate, but we don't go as far as primaries before our Federal election.  I too have voted for different 'sides' (like you we have two major political parties) depending on their platforms and characters and also agree that sometimes a change can be a good shakeup, even if there is a bit of pain in doing so.  I think for the US Trump is simply damaging, but that is just my opinion.

I 100% agree that the media thrives on sensationalism.  We get it bad here but I think you get it even worse.

I think Australia being a smaller country and a lot less money involved in politics, means we still get grass roots people interested in politics.  People who prior to politics owned small businesses, or were union leaders, plus a splattering of lawyers, doctors, farmers and others.  So I would say that for here, most of our politicians are genuinely honest and caring people - even those whose views I don't agree with often.

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On 1/28/2020 at 1:07 AM, romansh said:

 

I think that is just scary that any government would take that seriously!  I hope the US continues to keep its separation between Church and state!

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Is she really President Trump's personal spiritual adviser as the paper s commonly report or just 1 of many evangelists Trump has brought in and used in  the white house to strengthen his ties with Christianity? If you believe the the Liberal paper and propaganda  it is the the first. If you research it you may find it is the second. Just saying .....

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Does the trumpster even have a spiritual advisor, seems one must at least be 'Christian' or spiritual or have such concerns to have or need one?

If anything, the trumpster has advisors who are Christian in name, and he uses them all when necessary (as they use him) - all cut from the same cloth be it this one, Graham, Falwell or others. 

Just saying.

 

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17 minutes ago, thormas said:

Fox: "Trump's pastor, who advises the president's Faith and Opportunity Initiative at the White House" .................damn liberal press picking on the trumpster.

The second doesn't discount the first.

 

 

Edited by thormas
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7 hours ago, JosephM said:

Is she really President Trump's personal spiritual adviser as the paper s commonly report or just 1 of many evangelists Trump has brought in and used in  the white house to strengthen his ties with Christianity? If you believe the the Liberal paper and propaganda  it is the the first. If you research it you may find it is the second. Just saying .....

I don't know Joseph, but she and Trump appear to go back awhile.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paula_White#Donald_Trump_Administration 

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Paul,

Here is an interesting bias chart of news here in the US. https://guides.lib.umich.edu/c.php?g=637508&p=4462444

It seems relatively accurate to me. I notice that most of those mentioned on the left of 0 in my opinion slant their reporting negative to Trump and Republicans in general  while those to the right of 0 slant their reporting positive to Trump and Republicans in general. The number of news agencies on the left far outweigh those on the right .

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9 minutes ago, JosephM said:

Paul,

Here is an interesting bias chart of news here in the US. https://guides.lib.umich.edu/c.php?g=637508&p=4462444

It seems relatively accurate to me. I notice that most of those mentioned on the left of 0 in my opinion slant their reporting negative to Trump and Republicans in general  while those to the right of 0 slant their reporting positive to Trump and Republicans in general. The number of news agencies on the left far outweigh those on the right .

Interestingly I try to get my news from the BBC which has a centrist rating

Quote

The BBC News has a bias rating of "Center" from AllSides. According to Pew, BBC is more trusted than distrusted among the different ideological groups except for consistently conservative individuals who view BBC as about equally trusted as distrusted

As does the Economist (which I no longer read except at waiting rooms of doctors and dentists). The readership/viewership of the CNN appears to be more conservative than say the BBC and The Economist.

But I should point out the chart is not the bias of news vendors themselves, but that of the audience. 

PJ_14.10.21_mediaPolarization-08.png?res 

 

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I always find Political Compass an interesting site. Not that I take everything in it, hook line and sinker.

https://www.politicalcompass.org/uselection2020

Logically I should vote for Hawkins as he/she is closest to my typical score of -4.5, -4.5. But of course that would be a waste of a vote if I had one.

Gabbard and Sanders would be my nest two logical choices, if I did take the survey seriously. And then followed by Warren, Steyer and Yang. Note the right here refers to being fiscally conservative and not social conservative.

In my experience people seem to be a lot more liberal than who they vote for.

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Then there is Trump as a source of 'news' which is negative towards pretty much everybody. It is all propaganda and if it leans Republican it is a philosophy that not even Republicans recognize; it leans trump -  but how else could it lean, what else could it be for one such as this.

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The BBC's fact checking on last night's SotU

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-51381015

While Trump is not lying by commission, he is at least being disingenuous by omission.

The BBC report draws similar conclusions to what I did here back in September. Not terribly surprising for the most part we were using the same US Government data.

Well I suppose I am not surprised people are indifferent to the actual data and sooner go with what they are told that agrees with their preconceived bias.

Not sure what to make of the [lack of] exchange between Nancy and Donald at the end.

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There is a hate between them. In fact you will find that people either love or hate Trump. He is not a politician and many people seem to love it. He's working in a swamp here where lip service has ruled for decades. He is holding up pretty good with the majority of News agencies being biased against him. In fact the Republican party didn't want him at first. He makes them cringe with what comes out of his mouth. He simply doesn't care what the media or democrats think. He is doing what he feels his supporters elected him for. He speaks whats on his mind like a regular person rather than trying to be presidential and use well chosen words.  November will tell if the people like it or not. Based on the majority of news agencies negative reports on him you would think he doesn;'t have a chance winning in November. I think otherwise.

Did you watch Nancy stand up at the end and tear his speech up on national TV?

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1 hour ago, JosephM said:

Did you watch Nancy stand up at the end and tear his speech up on national TV?

Yes

Trump's behavior brought Nancy down to his level. She would not have torn up his speech if Trump had shown respect and shook hands.

The BBC is biased? 

Apparently what Trump supporters don't seem to recognize is that he also represents the majority that did not vote for him. His supporters seem to be loving that he ignores their wishes.

You are right he does not care.

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Nancy P is a force to be reckoned with. And as one commentator said, that action spoke volumes even to those, perhaps especially to those who didn't see/hear the speech. It said it all: not worth the paper it was written on.

The fact checking pu many lies to the trumpster.

 

But we now have a new profile in courage: Romney!

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