flowperson

What makes anyone believe that Jesus DIDN'T write anything down. Just because mopes like us (the opinion of the elite?) don't know of such materials doesn't mean that such things do not exist. There's lot's of stuff out there that has been found, IMO, that will never-ever see the light of day, let alone be openly shared because that is too threatening to the status quo. Stability you know. In the course of my twenty or so years of research I've run across lots of sly references to hidden sources that are known about, but are not available to scholars, let alone the general public. In his revolutionary book, Jesus the Magician, Morton Smith expands our knowledge regarding the Book of Mark , and suggests a high likelihood that fully two thirds of the original book are not available today. The Dead Sea Scrolls took decades to be fully revealed because of the fears regarding what they might contain. As I've mentioned before, there are numerous hints that the CIA was involved in the original handling of some of the scrolls, and lord knows what that was about. I might also remind you all that our government was heavily into the development of mind control techniques in the 50's. This work all went behind the black curtain in the 60's, and if these technologies are being actively used today, we wouldn't know it, we'd only be forced to live with the results of their use. The clandestine intelligence budget is in the neighborhood of $45 billion a year. That can pay for lots of clandestine stuff, and IMO, especially when one considers information falling out of the sky concerning clandestine monitoring of citizen's communications and extreme rendition and torture practices, there's lots of smoke and probably plenty of fire. I am not, by nature, a paranoid or dark side personality. However, I know enough about all this and have found enough information concerning such matters to deeply believe in the truth of it all. Conspiracies do exist. They are what have driven western civilization since the days of the Egyptians and Sumerians. The bible begins the tale of humanity with a consipracy story in which the first two humans plot against G-d to have their way in the world in which they have been placed. C'mon people. Wake up and smell the apples! Smell the swamp! Look at the forest! Gotta stop now and go out and buy some aluminum foil so I can reline my baseball caps. flow....

Hmmmm... been thinking of a sequel. How about Debbie does Dionysus ? It's got a kinky Greek angle to it maybe ? We could film it in the valley somewhere. I like outdoor adventures. That Debbie sure does get around ! flow....

I like the idea of a Jump Time (Jean Houston). That humanity evolves in 300-year cycles (last one being the age of enlightenment). <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Fatherman: I'm not familiar with Jean Houston or her work that popularized the concept of "jump time". But I am familiar with the punctuated equilibrium aspects of evolutionary theory since I read a couple of Stephen J. Gould books some years ago. Observational evidence of the phenomenon is mostly non-existent when it comes to life forms since science has only been "modern" for 100 years or so. But with time it should become more apparent. The theory is complicit with views concerning the new knowledge coming to light regarding the field of the behavior patterns of complex systems, which pretty much covers the progress of our realities through the space-time tunnel around us. In other words, everything that we are able to observe either at very large or very small scales behave in these ways systematically. And I believe that you are right regarding our existence, this is the time. Or one might call it a "tipping point". flow....

"Yin/Yang Kids" was an acknowledgement to the glory of young people like AR. They are the future, not me. I was not aware of the "indigo kids" legend, but that makes sense to me. I'll visit the site and absorb what I can. Oh, and I really like the music of "the Indigo Girls". Need to put some of that on my "shuffle". I have long been of he opinion that Jesus was a sort of herald sent by G-d to put the world on notice that a new type of human was coming and that this would truly change the world; and, for the better in the long run. My opinion is that this is much of what the 20th century was really about. Thanks fatherman ! Sometimes when I get rolling I tend to gush instead of flow. Probably not a healthy practice at my age. flow....

Dear Swamp Thing et al: Forests and trees. When people are reticent to think about and imagine just what the forest might be and look like, they opt for describing individual trees in excruciating detail, and then proceed to debate those details ad infinitum. I went to see the "evil movie" with my family yesterday, and I was not simply struck by the portrayal of the ad infinitum debate regarding the historical nature of Jesus' life and existence, but mostly how this has been turned into a centuries long saga of internecine warfare over what faction of humanity should control this one portion of the "big picture" story. Because it does, on the face of it, seem to somehow convey G-d's intent regarding a purpose behind the world being made in the first place. When I was a kid in the 50's (ugh, it's really scary to say things like that) we had a blonde, 17" console Motorola TV that I watched constantly on weekends (maybe that's my major malfunction). One of the historical/documentary programs I liked best was called "The Big Picture". It was a propaganda piece made by the US Army, sponsored by Pall Mall cigarettes (which probably killed more people than wars from 1945-1975) , and told us stories regarding the military's usefulness to human civilization. I'm not going to dispute the intent of the program, only to say that civilization does need protection from the "bad guys" from time to time, and the US military has been doing that quite well for the last 100 years or so. But there is always that temptation for political interests in power to demonize others "into" bad guy roles from time to time so that the the military card may be played in order to justify both the demonization process and the "rightness" of a nation's cause and destiny. When one looks back on Constantine's adoption of Christianity as the "true" religion, and when one considers how the basic two-party debate regarding the "true" nature of Jesus' life and works played out at Nicea into a politically and militarily expedient solution to the ills that were wrecking the known world at the time; it could certainly be said that the process unified a duality, a degree of peace was established between the warring Christian factions of the Early church, and the progress of civilization renewed it's three steps forward and two-steps back, lurching stumble of progress to the present. I believe that we're all beginning to go through a similar period in the present, and it is a scary thing for most people. It's so much easier to hang onto what is known and argue about that, rather than to ask difficult questions and find obscure answers, test them, evaluate their results, and then stumble forward again. This is the basic process of progress. Yes the "big picture" needs to be known and we need to re-explore, probably, the materials that have been thrown on the ash heap in the past in order to figure out just why they were so threatening to people and institutions in power and control. People like the "yin/yang kids" of the world have to take major roles in that process, because it's all mostly past people of my generation. And the world is increasingly being designed such that important information cannot be openly shared and known among like-minded people, because, well, we're all being conditioned to believe that's what "terrorists" do. Do not forget, "We the people" create the future in a democracy. And democracy reflects the constantly changing nature of the world that G-d created back in the day. The talking heads on television and in the rest of the media do not as a general rule. Max Headroom for President ! flow....

sniemiec Welcome to the board and we hope that your experiences here are rewarding for you and your community flow....

Oooo! That sounds nasty! <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Careful, it's contagious. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Uhhhhh, ummmmm, Aletheia, would you mind it terribly if we referred to you as "swamp thing" once in a while ?. I think it ranks right up there with "yin-yang kid". flow....

G-d is the life force. Whatever it flows through is of G-d. And since G-d is love, Sh/he is presented to us each time we embrace a loved one, each time we share prayer and song in a sanctuary with like-minded souls and hearts, and each time we think on how we are a wee small part of the greater and most beautiful universe of nature that we see in us and around us each day. It is of a oneness that cannot be surpassed and should not be underestimated in its power and ability to both destroy, and then magically renew itself on into the future. So yes, each time I see a hummingbird or sparrow at my feeder, each time I am cooled in the shade of a tree, each time I hug and kiss my mom and daughter, each time I see my cactus' blooms in May, I know with certainty that G-d is present and cares deeply about who I am and what I do. So I try really hard not to do things to disappoint Him/Her. But being human I sometimes fail, and yet I am still acceptable. G-d is unconditional love. That's the way I approach these issues, especially since I'm not well known for my regular church attendance habits. For me, much of my everyday world is a sanctuary. flow....

Gnosteric: I believe you'll some of the things you're looking for here since most us are still on quests looking for kernels of truth that surface in the stories that have been handed down to us. There are some great discussion threads here, but things haven't been very active recently. I suggest reading through some of the past's discussions. There have been some great ones since I joined last year. Above all do not be hesitant about asking anything or saying anything. We learn very few things without asking questions. Your first post was full of them. That's very healthy. Gnosis (knowing) is impossible without questions. Welcome ! flow....

Thanks for that AR. It demonstrates that on some level, no matter how different some people are, they can find common ground and get along if they see the world as a child does. flow....

Monica...Way to go dudette ! flow....

Hello Tariki ! I haven't yet had a chance to read your posts on CR in depth, but welcome to TCPC. We'll converse in more depth when I have some free time. Again, welcome ! flow....

Could you expand a little on that? Reply: My impression of reading the old stories of the scriptures is that tales including two brothers are prominent. The first appearance of the Zadokite priest Melchizedek to Abraham is with two unidentified men. I believe that they represent this dual-unity. Then there are Isaac's sons Jacob and the red headed guy, Esau. Jacob/tree man, Esau/ rock man. Jacob fooled Issac and gained his inheritance and blessing in place of Esau. But these brothers reunited and reconciled in the fullness of time. Cain and Abel were Adam's first born. One planted crops and raised animals (Abel) and the other (Cain) is implied to be a metalworker who made music ( you have to search out the Chaldean roots in your Strong's Concordance). Abel would equate with the tree man, and Cain, since he worked with earth/rock substances (metals) would equate with the rock man. Cain slew Abel (rock man sacrifices tree man) with the jaw bone of an ass (recall the opening scenes of 2001, A Space Odyssey). Jesus, the high priest of the New Testament, had, according to tradition two brothers, Judas Thomas (Didymus/twin-twin) and James the just. I haven't done any research on which is the tree man or the rock man, but I would guess Judas Thomas /tree, and James/rock. Don't forget that the church was founded on the rock, Simon Peter. There's more, but that's the best I can do now. Cool. First thing I think of is that fire is symbolic of purification. Many interpretations there. This life certainly does purify, if we let it. Reply: I went into my bedroom and looked at it closely, and it actually shows the fire streams coming from the leaves, which look like elm leaves.Technically, it's an accurate depiction of the energy flows generated by plants when functioning normally. They take in fire (sunlight) and water to sustain their life and growth, and then emanate energy forms from their extremeties as the product of their internal energy utilization. Don't forget that they corrall carbon, and cleanse and purify the air that we all breath. So to my way of thinking trees are more G-d-like than rocks since trees purify the world, and rocks just sit there. But then again, trees grow in rock and its variable forms. One cannot exist or continue as part of a whole and living system without the other. Heh. I'd forgotten about that. I'm going to have to delve into the symbolism of rocks and water (from the Ancient Eastern perspective) a bit more, if I can find info. It might be significant that Moses hit the rock with a staff. Both are symbols of the axis mundi. As you intimated, perhaps the 'joining' of them (dual polaritie) symbolized some sort of unity. (I'm just musing out loud here.) Reply: The Temple Mount (Dome of the Rock) in Jerusalem is honeycombed with water channels and resevoirs. I also think that this all symbollically has to do with the quantum tangling of interconnecting multidimensions and opening them up for our benefit and use. I'm reading Lisa Randall's book on that now. What A Fox ! Nah. I love this stuff. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Muse out loud all you wish. You're really good at it. Bed time. Work tomorrow. flow....

I just now scrolled down and cruised the links...AWESOME ! flow....

Gee guys, it's good to be back here at home. As I've stated before here, shamans of the ancient tribes of the Eurasian plains climbed a pole that represented the universal tree so that they could go to the heavens and commune with the spirits on behalf of their communities. Don't forget Gaugin's depiction of the serpent as a smallish red dragon-like being flying around in the air above Eve's head. He also depicted the garden of Eden as a locus in the S. Pacific, but then he WAS a French dude. It's also true that for punishment, people were hung from trees in the U.S. in the 19th and 20th century, sometimes whether they deserved it of not, and sometimes just because they were of African descent. Red-blooded Americans even sent post cards to each other that depicted such goings on. It was called "lynching". Legend says that Judas Iscariot (assassin) was hung from a tree for betraying Jesus ( in the traditional version). I even saw that in an old Cecil B. DeMille film. And Jesus died because he was nailed on a tree (in the traditional story) as opposed to eating of the fruit of knowledge with the Magdalene and having children and all that according to recently popular versions. In my version of archaic reality there are tree people and rock people and they have been trying to get along since the very beginning. I have an old Currier print of the tree of life that shows fire coming out of the tips of the branches. And of course when Moses struck the rock with his staff, a spring was opened up and water came from it. Water-fire, Rock-tree, basic elements depicted as being in some sort of dynamically balanced opposition. Coincidence or intentional design ? But then we have trees that are rocks in Arizona. Confused yet? flow....

Blam !! You da man. welcome. flow....

CATBALLOUCATBALLOUCATBALLOUCATBALLOUCATBALLOUCATBALLOUCATBALLOUCATBALLLOU ! And wasn't Lee Marvin terrific as Kid Shaleen ? I miss him a lot ! By the way, it has been mathematically and scientifically proven that a three component system always becomes unbalanced in it's behavior and motion patterns and tears itself apart sooner than dynamically balanced, two component systems. That's why there's two sexes and not three maybe ? But there's a lot of shades of grey in any dynamic system, eh ? Not as boring ! If there's anyone that can keep two old wierdos balanced it'd be you AR ! After all, you are the "yin yang kid" ! flow....

Ahhh Yes, Hanoi Jane. Such a magnificent performance in Roger Vadim's, Barbarella ! flow....

"I never thought I'd wish Nixon were president" flow....

Ms. Spears always has impressed me as a plaid-skirted mope without much sex appeal. Besides she likes to walk around in service station rest rooms with her shoes off. ECCCCCHHHHHH ! I'm going to show my age here but Senta Berger and Raquel Welch were more my speed. Ahhhh! Back in the day indeed ! flow.....

Perhaps so, but that is not the national or global goal these days. People are deceptive, unscrupulous, and even vicious about taking away the money of others since they truly believe that wealth enables security and freedom. Of course, as in the olden days, some know that they are only really fooling themselves. We don't really have to cite bible verses to realize it all, but the then and now symmetry that the exercise evokes is fascinating. But what we're really talking about is the slow erosion and disappearance of caring, human emotion, and empathy when everyone and everything is effectively commercialized and /or monetized these days. All one has to do is turn on the tv to see it all in high definition, plasma/LCD, living color; and, hear it in booming everywhere stereophonic sound, so it must be real huh? Why, people are even emotionally controlled into going into crushing debt to acquire such stuff to make them feel better and more powerful. None of this is an accident, and we are all victimized by it all to an extent. It's been building apace since WWII. Are we supposed to renounce modern life, sell everything, and live with our families in ditches in the desert ? Any thoughts? How do we strike a balance, or can we when it costs half a million dollars to buy an ordinary family home in most urban areas these days? How stressful our lives are ! No wonder we spend twice as much money per capita on health care than our brothers and sisters in the UK, and are nowhere near as healthy as British citizens on the whole. I'd say that many things are pretty much terminally corrupt these days. GRRRRRR! flow....

Sounds alot like what may happen here soon in urban areas if things do not change appreciably. Thanks. flow....

W2K I'm glad you brought this up. I believe that there is a distinct dichotomy, but this reality is reflected throughout the Old and New Testaments. The dualistic realities of the world and the universe around it that science has formalized in recent times are downplayed, except for the use of metaphorical references, in the Judeo-Christian writings, because there is an active aim in the entire body of this knowledge to unify oppposing forces and viewpoints, if you will. This starts with the side by side creation stories of Genesis, and the New Testament writings are also consistent with this thematic structure. I do not believe that it is an accident that the cannon was composed and officially recommended in the form that we know it today. This is why Gnostic viewpoints and certain popular novels and films pose such a threat to the established orthodoxy these days. In the case of the NT there are the accounts of the historical sayings and actions of Jesus based upon the testimony of those who knew and followed him two thousand years ago. Then there are the writings and revelations of a former tax collector who was so emotionally moved by what overtook him on the road to Damascus that he dedicated the rest of his life to writing and teaching about the life and works of the holy man that he only knew spiritually, and never in the flesh. This all, I believe, is meant by G-d to teach us all that there are two ways of believing. It is easier to believe what we see and hear and then pass that on to others. Remember that Jesus continually remonstrates his audiences with the phrase, "Do you not have eyes to see and ears to hear". But then the Pauline knowledge, being based not on these sorts of realities but rather on profound and personal spiritual experiences, serves to test those who must rely upon the spiritual experiences of others to build their faith upon, rather than upon supposedly fact-based experiences with the primary personalities. At least that's the way I see it all. Thanks for bringing this up. Flow....

HARMONIC CONVERGENCE RULES !!! flow....

Yes, I believe that Bill Blake had it about right, AR. There are entire realities and universes in even the smallest of things that we are able to see and hold. But as humans, stuck as we are with our physical and mental limitations, we can still savor the transcendant experiences of group singing and worship. We can be a part of a larger wholeness through group experiences. We can experience first hand just what it means to be a meaningful, if minute, part of a much greater goodness. It's been a while since I've experienced that, but the memories fill me with joy when I recall certain instances when such experiences emotionally moved me to join with like hearts to praise the good things of this life that have been freely given to everyone of us if we choose to access them. G-d is good, along with being merciful and compassionate. I just cannot visualize Him/Her as a vengeful, and fear evoking spiritual presence. Amen. flow....