flowperson

Jutan: Welcome to TCPC. If I may interject, it seems to me that your beliefs and interpretations of what G-d is and does are rather primitive and archaic. You are also somewhat new to this forum. I respectfully suggest that you avail yourself of some of the writings of Bishop Spong, Jim Warren, James Adams, and perhaps M. Scott Peck to broaden your perspectives. The library section of this website will also give you access to a broad range of materials that might broaden your viewpoint, which seems rather narrowly focused to me, and mostly upon concepts of punishment for perceived transgressions. Besides, many of us here are former participants in Orthodox and/or fundamentalist belief groups ,and what you are preaching is really pretty old hat to our ears...in fact you might say it's a set of rigid and inflexible beliefs that have...in the main...not adapted themselves to the new realities of the world that we each have to deal with each day that we go on. As a consequence these concepts have become and are becoming increasingly irrelevant to our lives. Many of us are here to find new and still relevant ways to believe in G-d and the miracles of saving activities that happen through our beliefs. Just because they differ significantly from what you believe doesn't mean that they are wrong beliefs; and besides, current events and history continue to prove every day just how destructive rigid and inflexible human behavior patterns are to the real world that we all must live in. flow....

Jim: As much as I'd like to agree with you wholeheartedly, reality bites. There is sacrificial death and suffering in the world because a portion of those in control will it to be so. The myth of Jesus' sacrifice for us is much the same as the mass murdering going on in Palestine, Iraq, and Darfur. The former is an icon in literary history of how it is possible for the whole to be rescued if only the people might mostly believe in peace and love over time. The latter cases are real contemporary historical facts that attack us who are believers with disgusting and degrading images and sounds of what death and suffering are about. For my part I choose not to spend my money to watch Gibson's films, for IMO he is a foolish man as was his father. But he's got lots of money and power so he can express his versions of history and reality at his whim. Not much of the peace/love belief system is working at all these days, especially in focus points of secular power. It is engendered by the pursuit of wealth and the lust for power and control of the lives of the less fortunate, and I don't see an end to it soon if at all because that is at the root of the problems here. We're being tested and the testing will likely increase in intensity, IMO. Best to buckle up for safety maybe. It's going to be a wild ride. Over on CR where I post quite a bit, many from differing viewpoints and faiths are intimating that a tribulation is beginning. I don't know about that...but something large is bubbling its way to the surface of things in the world. Always remember that He said that the way to the truth is hard and narrow. flow....

Jim R et al: Since I have seen and experienced lots of stuff in life, I would counsel us all to folllow the advice that the name of a popular TV program provides...Curb Your Enthusiasm. There are lots of things to begin in the next few years and they are all pretty earth shaking. Compromise, which is the necessary tool of the powers that direct any democratic society, will be engaged on overtime on most issues. We know from what science and technological advances are telling us that the future is going to be way different in a lot of important ways, and people are generally risk and change averse, liberals and conservatives alike. When that is the case, you can depend upon the powers that be to want to take very small steps to where they wish to go...and in the end expedience, economic and political, always determines the most good for the most people, which is the bottom line in democracies. But it is up to the people to tell the powers just what they believe is needed. We took our first step in doing that last tuesday. I don't know about you all...but I intend to pray for ALL of our leaders. They REALLY are going to need all the help that they can get. flow....

MT...GREAT SITE...ROCK ON...!!! flow....

des: I agree, but IMO it's probably going to take an 8.0 or better on the Richter Scale for it to happen. But we can still all hope, since along with faith and charity these are three of the better things in this life given to us by G-d. flow....

Cynthia...well said sister ! flow....

Hi Marilyn : We haven't met on the board before but I've seen your posts. You've started out with some good books. I suggest that you bring some balance to your list with The Gnostic Gospels by Elaine Pagels. Have fun. flow....

Thanks Monica...you're the best ever !!!!! flow....

Thanks Monica...see what happens when we buy computers and throw away paper and pencil ? Keep thwarting those nasty spammers...it's the criminal justice skill set of the 21st century. flow....

Hi Monica: Looks like we've got some sort of avatar problem this am. Went to my settings page, and it's not there either. Do we need to re-establish one, or no ? Just letting you know. flow....

"There's always somethin'."......RoseAnna RoseAnna Danna. flow....

Russ: I agree, with the following exception. It is inevitable that when a viable thread of religious belief is uncovered and extended into the future, the people cannot do it on their own. Denominational structures and all of the bells and whistles that go with that automatically become necessary. Perhaps we have too much such baggage in such structures these days, but much of it is carry-over from prior times, IMHO. But I also believe that "places of belief" are beginning to be augmented and transformed from building-centered gathering places to network-centered gathering places where people who are like-minded in their pursuit of religious guidance may converse and share information at their convenience and need. I view TCPC as such a place, and as such is a clear representation of the future, which really scares fundamentalist-oriented believers. But then, I figure that's their problem, not mine. I guess they figure that it is their duty to bring the fight to us. That probably explains the situation we see here. flow....

Hi Darby: Nice to hear from you again. No that wasn't the issue with me. I too have had issues with OA's approach in some previous discussions, but saw no need to comment upon those situations. But in this case the way in which her post was attacked by DCJ seemed very unfair IMO. Since I have been married to two teachers in the past, I guess that you might say that I sympathize with her "mindset" in some ways, but certainly do not side with her in her approach to religious questions that often. Debate and Dialogue means to me that issues are thoroughly discussed in an open and civil manner, without rancor or personally demeaning comments. It was my opinion in this case that DCJ stepped over those lines in his/her post, and waited two weeks to do it. Active discussions take place over shorter time periods, so that the give and take of comments may be shared in a timely way by the participants, and so that mutual understanding might have a more equable chance to emerge. I'd be the first to admit that negatively expressed attitudes do not facilitate communication. As I have stated above, that wasn't the issue here for me. So to comment upon your assertion that I and MOW commented upon this situation simply because we were somehow cantering up on our armoured mounts to defend the philosophical honor of a sister in liberal religiosity, would be a totally false assumption on your part. I, of course cannot speak for MOW. He's certainly more than qualified to speak for himself. And, I hope that he will. Now, lively discussions of a substantive nature seem to be few and far between on TCPC these days. They seem to have been magically "chilled" out of existence somehow, someway. I believe it is because many here come from a background of abuse, especially spiritual abuse, and simply to not wish to engage in written conflict over spiritual matters here. They're here to ask questions about matters of the spirit and obtain useful and meaningful answers from others who may have travelled a similar path. So when someone comes zipping in and lowers the conservative "hammer" upon such exploratory discussions regarding the nature of Christianity, those who "perceive abuse" go away elsewhere searching to ask questions and to obtain meaningful information if not answers. I have since become active in another site that is more conducive to such explorations, even though I still check back here in the hopes that TCPC may recover from its maladies and become once again what it was a year ago. I know that going back in time doesn't work. Believe me, I've tried that, at least spiritually, and I'm gettin' my spiritual ya-ya's elsewhere for the time being. I'm hopeful that my comments might start some sort of meaningful dialogue. Others have abandoned TCPC after trying to do so, but I don't plan to, because true spirituality is, IMHO, based upon belief in better things in the future. If I'm not mistaken, that's also one reasonable definition for "Progressive Christianity". flow....

DCJ: Taking "out of context" snippets from a more extensive post and then accusing the poster of being intolerant, arrogant, and bigoted;; and, doing so FOURTEEN DAYS after the fact is just plain wrong. I just wanted you to know that at least one person on this board thought so. Have a nice day ! flow....

See Monica, someone just wants you to work, work, work, no time off, no time off, no soup for you,,,,etc. Thanks for your help. We all know that you're the best ever ! flow....

Thanks Rivanna...I thought it might be some sort of situation like that...August you know. flow....

Monica... They're Baaaaaack ! The spammers that is. Just when some beneficial discussions begin to build momentum they strike and people begin to stay away from the board and discussions fall off again because participants feel insecure and "watched". Can you think of any "fix" that might help over the long term? There's a lot of symbolic intimidation going on in all of this, especially having to do with the number of guest "lurkers" that seem to be around when certain members read and post. Three, six, five, and eleven seem to be the numbers that the symbologist lurkers prefer when doing their thing. I realize that much of this is twilight zone stuff, but that's the way it seems to be in the digital universe we're all in these days. I have learned to follow patterns of behavior to determine intent, and this is what I see consistently happening here. I have very few "geek" abilities, but am willing to help in any way possible. If people who are here mostly because of the fragile circumstances they have endured in their spiritual lives sense intimidation, and they have been "sensitized" by their past experiences, then they will "choose" not to participate and go elsewhere. I hate to see that happen repeatedly to a place where we all felt welcome and protected in times past. Flow....

Ditto loveapple: IMHO Israel is reacting these days in paranoid and irrational ways, and the net result is mostly the death and suffering of innocent people, not terrorists. flow....

loveapple: We used to get a public television show in the US called the Red and Green Show. It featured two Canadian guys wearing red and green plaid outfits who mostly sat around talking about hunting trips, killing animals, and about recipies for cooking what they killed and subsequently ate. Really hilarious, but I haven't seen it on for sometime. Did that make it across the pond to the UK? We have quite a few of your comedies on over here. Maybe one of the middle east channels could revamp the concept and do a comedy of the same sort satirizing the warfare follies we're forced to watch on the daily news. It could be called, perhaps, Middle East Mash ? flow....

loveapple: Maybe that's how they both arrived here on earth 5,300 years ago. flow....

Soma: Thank you for your revealing story and astute opinions. It's no wonder that you have such an "unobstructed" view of spiritual reality. I agree that being unattached is important to receiving the gifts of the spirit, for the world of spirit being what it is, others will always attempt to load their burdens upon your shoulders when they sense that you posses spiritual direction and strength. Keeeping a balance so that your spiritual foundations are not tumbled is very difficult and we all have out methods of keeping that spiritual balance. I admire how you have come out of all that in your life with your directions intact. And, yes, being among common people who have had hard lives is a strengthening thing for one's self. There arises a set of commonalities with the "other" that is heartfelt and very hard to suppress with negativity. flow....

Monica: Thanks from one oldster that hates to squint ! flow....

Here's a little article that appeared in one of our local alternative papers, The Las Vegas Weekly. I thought that you'd all enjoy it. flow.... > NEVADA BISHOP TAKES OVER WORLD< Now that she's been voted Presiding Bishop of the Episcopal Church worldwide, Nevada's Bishop Katherine Jefferts Schori is everywhere-- CNN, Time, NPR, flying around the globe. We remember when her concerns were much, much smaller than becoming the first female to hold that post and subsequently divide the stodgy international Anglican community: "When I was growing up, the closest that little girls could come to the altar was singing in the choir." Las Vegas Sun, October 2000 upon being named Bishop of Nevada. "I hope to... develop God's dream for Nevada."--Las Vegas Sun 2001 Better amp up those dreams, Bishop. Here's the reaction of Orthodox Anglican, Virtue Online, to your new job: " [Liberals] voted for her to stick it in the eye of the Anglican community." Give 'em hell, Right Reverend !

Groovy !!! flow....

I finally added an avatar, but I am disappointed with the size of it/them, and the fact that they cannot be titled as far as I can tell. Is there any way to modify the process so that the picture can be larger and titled? flow....