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tariki last won the day on December 4 2017

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About tariki

  • Birthday 05/30/1949

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  1. I see my previous post in reply to Joseph as being sufficient to address/respond to your last two. (As far as chaos is concerned, our two grandchildren have recently turned up)
  2. Appearance and Reality are deemed as "one" by certain cosmological ideas propounded in zen. Again it comes back to "we are what we understand". Thanks Joseph. Although at the moment I find all my speculations and waffling therapeutic, my bedrock could be called the "opinion" (faith) that Reality-as-is, our Cosmos, is not chaotic in any nihilistic sense of that word.
  3. As Dogen says, "we are what we understand"
  4. As I see it, an overall/final purpose, any end product envisaged (teleological) would counteract, even negate/make impossible, radical freedom. I cannot do better than quote again from Hee-Jin Kim, from his book "" Eihei Dogen: Mystical Realist" when speaking of the zen notion of "dropping body and mind":- "To cast off the body-mind did not nullify historical and social existence so much as to put it into action so that it could be the self-creative and self-expressive embodiment of Buddha-nature. In being “cast off,” however, concrete human existence was fashioned in the mode of radical freedom—purposeless, goalless, objectless, and meaningless. Buddha-nature was not to be enfolded in, but was to unfold through, human activities and expressions. The meaning of existence was finally freed from and authenticated by its all-too-human conditions only if, and when, it lived co-eternally with ultimate meaninglessness" In "western" and theistic terms, we have Thomas Merton speaking of God, equating God with freedom itself and that God's gift to us is "himself." We also have from Christian mysticism:- "Love has no why" (Meister Eckhart) So, just how "useful" is the idea of purpose? Even in a Cosmos (rather than a chaos)? Or a Chaosmos? Sometimes perhaps we ask the wrong questions, frame them incorrectly, confuse the implications of our "answers". (Jung suggested that the greatest and most important problems of life are all in a certain sense insoluble…. They can never be solved, but only outgrown…...)
  5. tariki

    Back again

    Back in Costa's, following a couple of days with the grandchildren, getting them to school and back, feeding and playing. The little lad, 9, is very inventive as far as creating his own games is concerned (when we can drag him away from his kindle) Yesterday he drew over 60 tiny little stick people, each with a number. My job was to cut them out as he is left-handed and we have no special scissors. What I noticed as I cut was that each stick person had individuality, different haircuts - afro's, mohicans, pigtails, punk! It amused me - luckily I'm easily amused! Anyway, I've drifted as usual. For some reason the idea of WWJD has been rolling around in my head, or What Would Jesus Do. I suppose I should rather consider WWBD ( "Buddha", get it?) but the options there are limited to sitting in the lotus position and closing the eyes......😄given the textual evidence. Which in fact makes me think of some of the textual suggestions for copying Jesus. What would I do if I found no tomato's on a tomato plant at Christmas time? What would I do if I found people in a temple or church acting inappropriately? How would I address those whose religious persuasion was different from my own? How would I seek to help a person mentally challenged? How would I care for a parent in certain circumstances? Well, some textual evidence suggests curses, fetching a whip, vindictive and acrimonious language, spying out a herd of pigs, getting someone else to care.......yes we are talking fig trees, money changers, Legion, Pharisees etc etc. Not trying to be controversial. Simply recognising the difference between literalism and what might be called the spirit that blows where it will. Between commandments on tablets of stone and those written on the human heart. Even the literalists, our fundamentalist friends, in effect recognise the difference when they seek WWJD - and thus, the difference in many ways between "Jesus" as historical figure and "Christ" as the eternal logos, or as Thomas Merton said:- The Hidden Ground of Love.
  6. Following on - now in Costa's with extra hot cappuccino - Joyce's Wakese has much that relates to Dogenese. Particularly the "coming together" (the gathering of chaos) in the present moment, keeping in mind what Dogen's own teachers passed on to him in China, this that to teach students the power of the present moment as the only moment "is a skillful teaching of buddha ancestors" but this doesn’t mean that there is no future result from practice. Hee-Jin Kim, in his commentary on Dogen, relates all of this to faith, not always spoken of in western books on zen. Kim explicates how any such creative practice-expression in the present moment is not a matter of some refined understanding, but of deep trust in the activity of Buddha-nature: “Zazen-only cannot be fully understood apart from consideration of faith.” So there is always the hub of the wheel, even though the wheel turns, the "still" point of T.S.Eliot:- At the still point of the turning world. Neither flesh nor fleshless; Neither from nor towards; at the still point, there the dance is, But neither arrest nor movement. And do not call it fixity, Where past and future are gathered. Neither movement from nor towards, Neither ascent nor decline. Except for the point, the still point, There would be no dance, and there is only the dance.” (Lines from Four Quartets) Of relevance to all this is the wider understanding of what might be seen as the "one way". Deep correspondences can be seen (as above) between Joyce as he seeks the universal within the particular, with Dogen, as he seeks his very own path, time and place. Also with Eliot and that man's insights drawn from his own travels through "eastern" ways and Christian mysticism. Anyone conversant with understandings of the Universal Christ will also see how each relates to the other. How distant from such concord is the "only way" of some fundamentalist sects, where all who challenge one word of their own beliefs are deemed to be goats, to be cast into the outer darkness!
  7. In Wakese the word combines Cosmos (suggesting order, purpose, significance) and chaos. Joyce writes in Finnegans Wake of a constant rise and fall, circular, both for individuals and all Reality. A coming together, a falling apart.
  8. I often browse in books of poetry. This evening I came upon this one, which made me think of this thread:- You say, “If you want to be happy there’s no way, but to be a hermit. Flowers in the grove are better than brocade, every single season’s colours new. Just sit by a creek and turn your head to watch the moon’s ball roll.” And me? I ought to be at joyous ease, but I can’t help thinking of the people in the world. (Shih Te, 8th Century, translation from the Chinese by J. P. Seaton, from "The Poetry of Zen")
  9. I have come across a new word of Wakese while dipping into Finnegans Wake, chaosmos. A combination of chaos and cosmos. Often I have contrasted the two, asking which one Reality was. Joyce obviously had his own ideas and I find it suggestive, given a Reality of becoming rather than a fixed something. (I did come up with one word of Wakese of my own, agonversary. This a word describing a wedding anniversary, combined with the state of the marriage itself.... 😃 Maybe others can give thought to words of their own?)
  10. Thanks Romansh I was offering three examples from prominent scientists. There are many more. As I see it all point towards a paradigm shift, this from a Reality experienced as "me in here, that out there", "me subjective, that objective" into one where there is a fundamental inter-relationship between observer and observed. Experienced and understood as such. (Anyone interested could look up a post I made on March 1, 2017 on the thread Dogen in Other Wisdom Traditions, which relates) Thank you once again for your interest. It is appreciated. (I'Il give further thought to what was said concerning Heisenberg)
  11. Yes, one of the Dads actually admitted feeling anger towards his daughter for having chosen such a "solution". Such bravery to admit such. My only link to such tragedy was my GP. A young guy who treated me for over 20 years, once through a period of acute depression. Always family photo's on his desk. Always greeted me with a smile. I had absolutely no suspicion of his own challenges. When I found out that he had taken his own life I was shocked. It still keeps coming back into mind. When I was deep in the pit a consultant said to me that others often have no idea just what we are going through, "especially people like yourself." I asked what he meant, and he said: - "You are always smiling". I had no idea! Simply automatic, it meant nothing. Mental health needs to be broadcast, spoken about, admitted. The suffering will obviously be far worse for anyone under the impression that all others are fine and coping well.
  12. Back to Finnegans Wake. Dogen was getting a bit heavy and I needed constant escapes to Candy Crush Soda Saga to rest my weary mind. As an aid to the virtually unreadable Wake I am reading Richard Ellmann's biography of James Joyce, still the finest biography although first published back in 1959. Very detailed. Joyce drew deeply upon his own life and experiences as the source for his books and Mr Ellmann constantly gives examples of episodes from Joyce's life that found there way into Ulysses and Finnegans Wake, even though often in a slightly altered form (and even more often with names changed "to protect the innocent" - or not so innocent!) Joyce comes across as very advanced in his early years. By the age of 16/17 he had already passed through a "pious/overly religious" period and had thrown off the yoke of any overt Catholic indoctrination. This apart from a life long fear of thunder (the sound of which appears in the Wake as "bababadalgharaghtakamminarronnkonnbronntonner- ronntuonnthunntrovarrhounawnskawntoohoohoordenenthurnuk!") .....a sound which I am told represents The Fall, a recurring feature of humankind's history rather than a once off. It is also suggested that the vivid hell-fire sermons took their toll upon his tender young mind, but not so as to cower his artistic expression. It seems that he sought to transform his own given time and place - 19th century Dublin - into universal themes. Yet Joyce retained his appreciation of his Jesuit teachers, recognising a certain slant of mind that they inculcated in him that he was able to transfer to other frames of reference beyond Church doctrine. Joyce:- "To live, to err, to fall, to triumph, to create life out of life" No fears of damnation would deter him. He saw great meaning in Christ being born in a stable and his writings often draw forth profound epiphanies from what others would dismiss as commonplace. As I see it, how the mythic becomes our own experience. I see correspondences with Dogen. Off now to Oxfam.
  13. As per my previous post, a few relevant quotes regarding interdependence (or in mumbo-jumbo speak, "non-duality v duality"):- Deep down the consciousness of mankind is one. This is a virtual certainty because even in the vacuum matter is one; and if we don't see this, it's because we are blinding ourselves to it. (David Bohm) Consciousness cannot be accounted for in physical terms. For consciousness is absolutely fundamental. It cannot be accounted for in terms of anything else. (Erwin Schrödinger) There is a fundamental error in separating the parts from the whole, the mistake of atomising what should not be atomised. Unity and complementarity constitute reality. (Werner Heisenberg) Maybe the moral is that what we should have in the other hand is each other. Simply because this is the hard reality. What comes to one must come to all.
  14. Well, after a brief interlude of just who will be getting the drinks, back to the thread. (Just to mention that any contribution at all will be appreciated) The mention of "should" and "could" and the implications for the ancient on-going conundrums concerning free will and determinism, I'm becoming convinced that the failure to truly resolve the paradoxes and various logical problems actually have to do with our notions of "self", of exactly who we are in reality. As I see it we are possibly asking questions, and trying to solve them, about a construct that doesnt exist as we have constructed it/imagine it, to be. Just so long as we presume an inner self (subjective) looking out, and an outer reality, objective in and of itself, the age old questions will never be settled. (In fact, many will simply insist/presume their own "answer" based upon the subjective conditionings and necessities of whatever belief system they subscribe to - which certainly becomes a nonsensical tangle) Our knowledge now of reality points to the interdependence of observer and observed. Innumerable eminent physicists at the cutting edge of scientific discovery and experiment have testified to this. Maybe I'll dig out some relevant quotes sometime. Once again, this for me is not academic. It relates to "suffering (dukkha) and the end of suffering". It is about finding myself/ourselves. All seems to be paradox. In dying to self we come alive for the first time. In losing ourselves we find ourselves. I'm reminded once more of an entry in the Journals of Thomas Merton. Speaking of "change" he made a comment when in 1954 he was visited by his friend Mark Van Doren. Van Doren remarked that Merton had not changed much since his entry into the monastery. Merton replied....."Why should I? Here our duty is to be more ourselves, not less" Paradoxically, "becoming more ourselves" is to let go of the congealed beliefs and allegiances that we think sustain us. Which can be frightening at times. OK. Lots of "analysis" or whatever, conjecture, call it what you will. "Fidelity to grace in my life is fidelity to simplicity, rejecting ambition and analysis and elaborate thought, or even elaborate concern." (Thomas Merton) What price "simplicity"? (Or, as we say in the Pure Land, hakarai - no calculation)
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