flowperson

Hi Carl and Atticus ! Thanks for your response. I knew it was just a matter of my trying to say too much in too few words in my original post. As far as your being sensitive, please work hard at holding on to that attribute since it will be the primary talent that we will all have to exercise and exploit diligently in the future that is bearing down upon all of us quite rapidly now. Applying the knowledge that sensitive people glean as a result of their life experiences and observations is the raw material that entire civilizations have been built upon. Whether or not our churches and religious and governmental institutions have the wisdom to use this knowledge wisely in policy formation and operational direction is, of course, another matter altogether. All we can do is to pray for them to do so. flow....

Carl ( hi Atticus!) As a lifelong UCC member until a short time ago, no one was more joyful than I when the denomination chose to support the new realities of the world, when it comes to sexual and gender issues, at their most recent national gathering. My comments were not made to cast this set of findings in the light of an affliction or disease as you seem to have interpreted my comments. It was written, or at least I attempted to do so, in such a way to show that from a genetic viewpoint, the human organism is highly variable and diverse, and this diversity is based upon a subtle dance and interplay between and among genetics and environmental influences. I merely summarized my understanding of the outcome of the findings and some of their implications. These genetically-based outcomes are not diseases or afflictions, per se, but outward evidences of genetic variability. That is a large difference. There is no "normal" human being. We are all different in some external ways, but very similar on the inside, I believe. Now, you and I are the type of individuals, I believe, that love and support our fellow human beings, and sexual orientation likely has no affect upon that set of priorities for either of us. I was trying to compare gender orientation with other genetically based variabilities, and say that while homosexuality is not an affliction or disease, it does cause others in society to exclude people who have them from the community simply because this particular genetic variability is objectionable to some of them; similar to the situation in which different colors of skin have historically separated the human community, or how public drunkeness sometimes causes people to be put in jail . Community ostracism is a form of bigotry that has been practiced for as long as we have been humans, and it's not going to end any time soon. Some people will always exclude homosexuals from their societies. Some people will always abuse people who have a different skin color than they do. Some people will always look down upon those who are addicted to alchohol. People can't help what they are genetically, and until the rest of our exclusionary society wises up to how much we all need to embrace the excluded and unloved, things aren't going to change. In short, I'm with you in what you said, but that's not going to change the realities of our societal situations. By the way, the film Gattica, speaks to these issues more eloquently than I could ever hope to. And now with wealthy people being able to have designer babies made from their genetic materials, this issue is probably only going to become more divisive for us all in the future. flow....

MT: I agree, and isn't it all shameful ? So good to have you back ! flow....

I find it interesting that several stories have broken in last few days which state that scientists have found that sexual orientation (gay or hetero} is determined prior to birth while the fetus is in its mother, and at least in boys, has much to do with how many older brothers the boy-baby-to- be has already. In other words homosexual tendencies are probably dependent upon genetic pre-disposition ( similar to macular degeneration, alcoholism, or diabetes suceptability) and is not a learned behavior. The conjunction of these findings with the increasing polarization within several mainline protestant denominations probably is not a coincidence. There were hints of genetic predisposition for homosexuality that came to light in the late 80's, but the findings were not this convincing or well-researched. flow....

Chad: My advice is to let the sleeping dog lie. What good would it possibly do to rebel now, or sneak around to have your own way and just mostly feed your ego in the process ? Besides, whether you realize it or not, your relationship with a parent(s) is not a bridge that you should risk burning. Your relations with them are made to be lifelong for a reason. G-d wants it to be that way and you only may break it at your own peril. Parental love is still the only type of love that is lifelong and totally unconditional whether you believe that to be true in your situation or not. When you move to Chicago you're really starting the next major part of your life. Since everything else will change for you at that time, just add changing your church to the list. I believe that will work better for you in the long run . Best wishes on your new life, flow....

des: The local press here has been kind of tentative here in her home state. If you ask me that's probably a good sign since her early statements have landed on the side of tolerance and understanding of peoples' needs and problems. Definitely an anti-corporate/establishment attitude seemingly. I believe that Bishop Schiory (sp?) will be a breath of fresh air in the long run. Besides her husband's a theoretical mathematician so the family's got brainpower. A good choice if you ask me. I hadn't heard about the new SB leader. Time will tell, but we probably already can expect more of the same stuff like "wives should be obedient to their husbands" sort of things. flow....

Dave: If it's any comfort to you I believe that it's impossible to live in today's America and NOT have some sort of mental aberration. I feel that we are all under constant attack by our environment, especially in urban areas. However where I live now is better than where I used to try to be. flow....

Hi Francis !! A hearty welcome to you, and I hope that your times here will be rewarding. flow....

Of course this article is true and right, but what's to be done about it ? How do we fight illusions, deceptions, lies, and unjust persecutions. I believe that we were given an answer 2,000 years ago. When it has happened/happens to me, I ignore it as much as possible and go on with my life and its direction which is to progress into the future. What other choice is possible ? If the other side prompts one to respond in kind and we do, then we are playing their game, which Christian teachings have historically demonstrated along with those of Ghandi and other non-Christians, do not provide any satisfaction for us in the long run, only pain and suffering. It boils down to peaceful resistance, and whether we wish to be part of the problem or part of the answer ? There's an article in today's LA Times that details much the same idea, only its perspective is that the right wing of religion in general is trying everything possible to hasten the "end times" for everyone. Somebody's got a huge, uncurable, massive case of obsessive-compulsive schadenfreude if you ask me. flow....

Canajan, so good to hear from you again. I agree with you that praying for and having trust relationships with those we hold dear and rely upon spiritually is the key to a feeling of completeness. Doing all that on a day-to-day and practical level is another thing altogether. Again, welcome back ! flow....

ebloomer: Welcome to the boards ! Try googling "indigo children" and then mentally connect the obvious dots. Add the fact that the imposition of the use of antipsychotic drugs upon children by parents and doctors has increased by a factor of 500% over the last ten years and I believe that you'll start developing some answers, and many more questions. flow....

The word "liberal" was popularly and effectively demonized in the 1986 presidential campaign by George the First when he coined it as the "L word", meaning of course that subliminally it was akin to other unmentionable words that are popularly used in our everyday language. Of course when that was done nobody spoke up to explain that practically every social improvement begun in 19th and 20th century America was a result of the liberalization of social policy through law. The works of John Dewey, Susan B. Anthony, and Jane Addams come most prominently to mind. flow....

Max: I believe that you'll find most people here to be apolitical. Besides, I have a policy of not affixing my name to anything that is chained. flow....

Undone: Welcome to our board. Lots of people here have gone/are going through what you are. None of us are certain about much regarding belief, and we are here mostly to seek meaning and ask intelligent questions. I would suggest reading past posts as much as possible. You'll find lots of wisdom in them. Things have not been real active lately, but that comes and goes. As far as reading goes, I'm sold on the late M. Scott Peck's books, especially his first two, The Road Less Traveled, and People of the Lie. He was a psychiatrist, but lucidly describes the human condition so well, and from a Christian aspect, that I'm sure you'll find his work rewarding. I look forward to your partnership on our journey. flow....

Durthorin: Welcome to our little slice of heretic activities. It's been a little slow in recent weeks but it comes and goes. We all hope that you have lots of questions because that's what this place is all about. Me first. What does your avatar represent ? flow....

Air America is one of the progressive political radio groups that have been popping up the last few years. I believe that it features Al Franken and others who see their mission in life as to oppose the powers that be. It's not available where I llive, but they are doing a good job of stirring the pot from what I read and hear. flow....

I believe that October's got the right idea. flow....

Hi SabreRoseTiger ! Lurk all you wish, we don't mind. But do join in with us from time to time.We've been losing some active posters, but more will probably show up sooner or later. Anyway, welcome, welcome, welcome, and chime in anytime. Flow....

LOL Yeah the future's so bright, I gotta wear shades, and "I Do See The Light !" flow....

Luth: Thanks for the heads up on Charlie's new CD, but I usually download old school stuff to my shuffle these days. CD's are just too expensive and you usually get some songs that you don't want to listen to very often. I'd rather spend the $ on single plays that I know I want to listen to often. Thanks again ! Also notice that I wear shades, brother. flow....

It's my considered opinion that 8,9,&10 are all about the same thing if you ask me, but if you feel compelled to choose...hey...go ahead. It's also my opinion that we were originally designed to be meat machines that were/are forced to choose and then live with the outcomes so that we could, theoretically, learn from our mistakes and modify our behaviors over time when necessary. I'm not so sure that system is working very well these days. Oh well !! flow....

Ummmm, I'd vote for #8, just because this sort of stuff makes more sense to me these days than what passes for reality. flow....

My former brother-in-law once had a beagle named Ralph ! flow....

I am lucky enough to have a copy of the first Omen film with Gregory Peck and Lee Remick. Very well made and scary as all get out. I understand the remake pales in comparison, as most remakes do. What did you and your friend think of The DaVinci code, des ? flow....

Self Reflection ? flow....