flowperson

Thanks for the strokes guys ! Yep ! Little by little. That's the ticket ! Oh ! Ever wonder why most bobbleheads are politicians, pro athletes, and entertainers ? That's probably not a valid question, Huh ? flow....

Hi flow, I'm intrigued by your term"Planned obsolescence" Could you expand a little more on how you think that happened? I always look forward to your take on things. Blessings to you my friend, Jerry <{POST_SNAPBACK}> It's kind of like the wrestling smackdowns on TV I think. Just when social justice and caring about the plight of those less fortunate than the mainstream begins to gain some steam and traction as it did during the lives of FDR, JFK, MLK, Princess Diana, yes, even Pres. Bill and other secular leading lights of the type, the movements get smacked down by wars, assassinations, questionable accidents, scandalous escapades... you get the picture. It's not so much a political thing as much as it is about which white guy wins the argument Unless I'm very mistaken the timing of such interventions out of the darkness seems not to be so accidental. What we are seeing are negative reactions to the goodness preached by Jesus and exemplified in the life that we have been told that he led; and, yet when others seem to gain a modicum of making parts of His promise come true in today's realities, there are the smackdowns. It seems to have happened a little bit too often in my memory for it all to be accdental. What I believe it is is evil in action; for, those who try to emulate Jesus' works in the real world of today seem always to be unfairly punished just for trying to make the world of the common people a little more bearable. I believe also that America's spiralling descent into mainly materialistic policies that began just after the Civil War has contributed to the acceleration of this now increasingly noticeable cyclical phenomenon. This is a very ancient thing and is probably the modern and post modern version of what the ancients spoke of as the war between the sons of light and the sons of darkness which is a central theme of the Dead Sea Scrolls. Of course today both sexes are involved in these secular battles, so I substitute "children" for "sons" when I refer to the phenomenon now. But there is absolutely nothing that we can do about the cycle because it is a built-in feature of human societies IMO. G-d as the author of history planned it this way so that the dynamic interplay of the very beginnings could move humanity forward through time based upon the living, reproducing, working, and dying of us. We remember and act accordingly in loving and non-violent ways, for that is how we have been taught to survive for our progenys' sake. Planned ? Yes. Obsolescence ? Others have recently commented here that Christainity is becoming increasingly outmoded in its traditional forms and needs some sort of transformation. Maybe . But when our older vehicles become obsolete, there are new models to fill the need. Inventing new ways of belief certainly is not like buying a new model car. I believe that this website is a place where aspects of the new might be unwrapped little by little. Let us all continue doing just that. flow....

"I am about ready to borrow someone's quote,"We're mad as hell...and we're not going to take it anymore" Wish I could remember who said that. Keep us thinking October!" I can't remember the character's name, but he was brilliantly played by Peter Finch who was a network anchor in the prophetic film, Network, which also starred William Holden and Faye Dunnaway. The original story and screenplay by Paddy Chayevsky is one of the greatest and most prescient ever written. Rent and watch a copy. You'll shudder at how close to today's realities it comes, especially if you're familiar with what's on FOX . flow....

What's happened to Jesus in America ? Planned obsolescence ! flow....

I am adding a post to this seemingly dormant thread because I believe that this whole episode will do alot to define who is afraid of change and who is not. This article appeared on the NYTimes site today, and it seems that the conceptual debate is being ratcheted up another notch or two in order to: 1. Short circuit or encourage possible questioning of the film's content before it is released in May; 2. Bolster traditional versions of the life of Jesus and its position and meaning in history; 3. Create positive impressions of the actions and activities of conservative Christians within public opinion prior to the film's release in order to insure their scholarly primacy in the debate about the film's content and assertions about the life of Christ and the church that He founded. Please read it. I believe that you'll find it to be very interesting. It looks like a massive and well-funded assault upon the marketplace of public opinion is building. The white guys are arguing, and I believe that it's going to be a doozy ! http://www.nytimes.com/2006/02/09/movies/09davi.html Flow....

Oneness ! Peace ! Joy ! Music ! GELF ! Let's hope and pray ! flow....

I would third Cynthia's awesome, but when the children look around them they see a whole lotta time-driven materialism, programmed behaviors, and lotsa, lotsa illusions of love. How is the difference between the love that descends down to those of us who are able to perceive it and receive it from G-d and pass it on, and that which attacks them in the false images that they absorb each day, to be discerned by them other than by example? In the midst of news programs about domestic disturbances that turn into violent acts and real-life adults around them treating each other with deceit and disrespect, how are they to learn ? Sorry to be the pessimist here. I guess older age automatically engenders cynicism. It seems that the younger generations and the older generations that are responsible for making a loving future happen are under attack on all sides by the forces of darkness. Any ideas about how we got here from the innocent old days I can remember? But then, I was younger then and was much more innocent. Maybe it's always been that way, innocence in youth and cynicism with age, and we just don't realize the truth of it all until we reach a certain age and level of experience. And, just where did the two bears come out of ? The woods ? A cave ? And just what the devil were they doing before they came out to attack the children? Eating hallucinogenic berries and smoked salmon ? I believe, MOW, that the story Marcion focussed upon is fraught with unresolvable dependencies and contingencies, and THAT inevitably led to his downfall.. flow....

It's been my opinion for about twenty years now that we are sorely in need of a "Next Testament" so that the varied beliefs in G-d that exist in the world may be reconciled somehow with the "progress" that humanity has made this past 2,000 years or so. It becomes harder everyday to really believe in the older testaments that have taught us so well in the past. The children are having a difficult time embracing that knowledge because their real world experiences negate the contexts of the older testaments almost every day that they live into the future. Maybe we're doing just that here on the board ! flow....

If I didn't have to work I'd be there ! flow....

Minsocal I would not say that you are being over-analytical. That's what most of us must do these days to unwrap issues and understand their applicability in this difficult world. To the extent that this unwrapping process excludes the views of others, then it would be wrong. But as humans we are compelled to label new-found things as they are unwrapped in order to create orders of new knowledge in the process. But I believe that your final comment is the most telling in your post. It is my belief that we are all here to fulfill an implicit promise of ONENESS that was brought to us in the messages of the world's great religions, and especially so in the Judeo-Christian traditions. It is why we worship the most high together usually, and now in places such as this we are entering new ways of attempting to attain ONENESS some day in the future. But of course peace is necessary before that might be realizable, and we're pretty far away from that it seems. When and if that ever happens, then the world will be transformed into something quite different than what it has been, and certainly what it seems to be now. I've used this term before here and I believe it describes such a future goal and transformative event, Harmonic Convergence. It seems to be a musical term but actually crosses many learning disciplines into understandings of how the world really operates at all levels on a natural basis. But then, too, we seem to be collectively destroying the natural world with our diverse and necessary material pursuits. But I did see an article in the news today about a varied group of Evangelical Chrstian leaders bonding together in support of taking action to halt the global warming catastrophies that are already upon us all. There is always hope, along with faith and charity. flow....

Thanks for your insight Cynthia. I was trying to get to just that sort of point in my convoluted explanation of conveying artistic messages into understandable and clear works to be shared amongst others. Of course it is the artist's respect for the self that motivates him/her to enter into a responsible activity, engaging all of his/her talents to transform the raw materials received from beyond into something that is understandable in the profane world. It is a responsibility to the self and to the muse/spirit that compels us to create, not pride. flow....

Welcome to the board ! We hope that your times here will be beneficial to both you and those that you love in seeing that there are many ways to G-d. In some ways Jesus himself demonstrated the truth of this, even though the words that have been put into his mouth by second and third century authors contend that He is/was the only way. We like to question realities here in a climate of mutual respect and learning, and someone is always around here to offer suggestions, sometimes whether or not you want or need them. My suggestion for a worthwhile book would be The Road Less Traveled, by M. Scott Peck. While it is really a self-help, get yourself straight book from the 80's, it is written by the late Dr. Peck from a progressive and inclusive Christian perspective and has been helpful to many of us here in coping with the reality of this world that " Life is difficult." BEST WISHES ON YOUR NEW JOURNEYS ! flow....

JB My experience and intuition tells me that while ideation and conception of artistic work often comes to the artist from other places or unidentifiable spiritual inspirations, there is still the execution of the work that is necessary. One "feels" what is intended through the giving and receiving of the conception, and then is duty-bound to place the work in a form that is as pristine and revealing of that conception as possible. I cannot see how this process might be entered into with any motivation other than ego-driven desire to interpret the messages in as pure a form as possible, and to bring as high a level of technical skill as possible to the performance process, whether writing, art, drama, or music is involved. It is the interpretive aspect that requires the application of energies that ego provides. That's the best I can do to describe the process from my experiences. It all is very hard work, the hardest I've ever done. flow....

It could be that there is some spillover here from the thread discussing "living in a matrix, and holographic projection". Think of it as an "inside-outside" issue. If G-d is truly other and is wholly "outside" of our realities and experiences except for "mystical contacts", then Sh/He projects into our reality in some important ways from time to time where the boundaries are thin, and to those of us on the inside who are able to receive and interpret His/Her intents. I believe that's where art comes into the picture. Since by experience we know that it requires ego to artistically and practically create our futures here, we surmise that G-d must, of necesssity, have ego in order to have started this reality and to have guided its development in time from the outside. If we are truly made in His/Her image and likeness, then we are of necessity a true reflection of the "outside" Creator, ego and all. This is where scalar holographic principles may come into play. It relates to the fact that a grain of sand seen under magnification has the same fractal countours as do continental shorelines seen in satellite pictures, or why an electron miicroscopic image of the growth patterns of an oncogene ( cancer-causing cell) bear striking resemblances to the satellite photographs of earth's urban sprawls. flow....

JB It would take so much time and space to comment upon your question that I would shy away from a more complete description at this time. However, you can grab the gist of it by renting the "Matrix" films, and by reading the book that I suggested elsewhere on the board, The Holographic Universe by Michael Talbot. When it came out in the late eighties or early nineties it was so novel in its concepts that it seemed akin to UFO books in some ways. But it attracted excessively arcane and vehement criticism from conservative scientists which indicated to me that it probably contained some valid concepts, and when I read it I felt that it did. I have re-acquired a copy and plan to re-read it soon to examine anew what may be there in light of recent discoveries in physics and optics. As you watch the movies and hopefully read the book (if you google the author's name I believe there's a shorter version of the concepts by the author on the web) keep in mind that everything on the face of the earth, including us, can be digitized and rendered on displays in the form of topographic mapping routines. That means that everything is locatable, addressable and observable under certain technical circumstances. The Matrix films are about this. A hologram is a two dimensional rendering that is transformed into a three dimensional entity through novel illlumination and rendering techniques using laser generated light. Thus any reality on earth or near it at any scale could theoretically be simulated and made to appear to move in time just as the world around us does. As an example of such powerful technologies, it is now possible to simulate the electromagnetic and particle activity of the explosion of nuclear devices in femtosecond (trillionths of seconds) segments on masssively parallel supercomputer processors. This is how our nuclear arsenal is kept up to date these days since real world testing of the devices was ceased years ago. Living in a matrix would mean, I guess, that we should be aware of the fact that we and the things around us may be observable by others as virtual simulations which would probably distort reality for us at times in some important ways. These distortions might take the form of the more sensitive of us sensing "virtual presences" around us from time to time. I know that I have experienced such episodes. That's about the best that I am able to do for now. MinS and AR Yes , I agree with you both on some levels, but as I have commented before, the earliest folk beliefs among the earth's cultures was that the earliest and greatest G-d was an androgyne possessing both female and male characteristics. In fact there are some arcane sayings in the Gospel of Thomas that approach this subject. Also, the early depiction of demonic beings is highly variable. Aside from Gaugin's vision of the flying, red, serpent tempter, early Etruscan art rendered on the walls of tombs from about 1,000bc depict the demonic as blue-faced beings with warty noses and medusa-like hair. Different artists, different visions. flow....

I second that motion in the ocean !! flow....

AR & JB Agreed. I've always wondered why the serpent picked on Eve and not Adam. Any thoughts on why she was more susceptible to the hisssser's deceptions than the man? By the way, Paul Gaugin did a wonderful series of panels on the garden scenes. He seems to have been obsessed by the drama of this particular literary metaphor involving the first humans. He depicts the serpent as a smallish, flying, red dragon and not as a snake in the tree. I don't know why I am moved to do certain things as I do. All I know is that my feelings tell me when the choices I make are right for my future and the futures of those I care for. And likewise, if I lie to myself about the choices I make in the moment, I always end up regretting those turns in my life. It is a never-ending process of self-reflection, memory, and evaluation that collectively educates us about how to live life beneficially for ourselves and others. If that's life in the "matrix", and if that's how G-d set-up our holographic and fractalized realities, then so be it. It is real. BTW, I really like the way sh/he set-up our senses to multitask. Listening to Bob Marley, Peter Tosh, and Bunny Livingston makes this writing stuff much more natural for me. flow....

Hmmm...interesting parsing of the terms. But we are twisted by these thoughts and concepts because we are imbedded in a flow of historical time and its events that are dependent upon our abilities to create them individually and collectively; and, upon our abilities to recognize and record their effects upon society. The events themselves are contingencies that operate to move the processes of human life forward and not backward, that is if one is progressive in their thought patterns. As I've said here on the board several times before, historical reality, at least for several hundred years now, has usually ended up being the version recorded by whatever white guy wins the arguments. However, my belief is that these days we are descending into a blur of unresolvable events simply because of our technological abilities to dessect and parse the most complex events into wholly ambiguous piles of facts and data that point in no particular directions to argue about. It may be that this is due to our 150 years of efforts to detach our day-to-day lives in western culture from our very ground of being, nature...hmmmmm? Yes, G-d is very necessary these days, and increasingly so it seems. flow....

Another haiku verse that once came to me out of the blue goes: " It is better to dance in the light, Than to stand rigid in the darkness. " Looks like it fits in with our thoughts on this thread. Consider it a contribution from the spirit world because that's where it originally came from, even though I wrote it down along with 103 others. Let's see... that leaves 101 to go before you guys have them all. Flow....

MT Wonderful subjects and insights, but I agree with Soma that fear is so widespread on the right that they will tend to ignore anything, to their and our peril, that smacks of newness; and, that is the crux of the problem. You can already see this phenomenon taking hold in world events each day. I am pretty discouraged right now that the new things will ever come to be, some of that probably being an artifact of my age and what I have seen. But I still pray and hope that the younger generations can see the importance of what goes on in places such as this. I pray that they will take their hearts and minds to the great and wonderful tasks and work ahead of them in building a new world upon the old without it being destroyed first in any way but a gradual and less painful one. So much ignorance, money, and material power is entrenched against them and us, but as you know, with G-d's help all things are possible. flow....

Today's world seems to force us all to live more and more on a "dependent and contingent" basis. especially in urban areas. Mostly this is because of our interconnectedness with each other, but not necessarily with nature in real ways. Ambiguity rules in most situations, no matter how much humans attempt to control or manipulate them, but their outcomes still remain mostly unforseen. We are all cursed and condemned to live in very interesting times ! But I am not worrying because I believe that G-d is in control. flow....

Soul makes you want to dance, and spirit makes you want to fly. That pretty much covers the subject for me. flow....

Welcome newbies !! I trust that your journey with us will be rewarding, or maybe it won't. I'm one of those weirdo believers that is not a church goer, but i find alot of spiritual sustenance in this special place. Have fun !! flow....

Somehow your post reminds me of one of my favorite movies, Fried Green Tomatoes. flow....

I look at it all this way. The universe is what it is and isn't going to change anytime soon since it's been around for 14 billion years or so according to some cosmologists. But that doesn't mean that it is understandable. Science is still working mightily on that. Until some ultimate understanding shows up we are all faced with a universe that is chaotic at its most basic levels, and at its ultimate levels, as far as we can tell. By example, if we pile sand up one grain at a time, the pile will self-organize itself and adjust itself as we keep adding sand to it one grain at a time. But as we go along there comes a point in time when its self-organizing nature to accomodate the re-ordering of the grains in the pile may well bury us if we are in the wrong place in relation to it when we add just one more grain to the top. In a like analogy, snow on a mountain may be built up to a point where some minute disturbance may start a small part of it moving and suddenly gazillions of ice crystals are rumbling down a mountainside in an avalanche crushing everything in its path. Human lives are no different and are subject to these same ordering routines that may be observed in nature. We make choices in our day to day lives, often choosing not to confront painful choices which we bury and carry around with us for a long time. We often choose to ease the pain we feel in this process by self-medicating ourselves with various activities and substances which often are inherently addictive because they give us the short term pleasures our increasingly evasive behavior patterns inhibit in normal and regular activities. Some triggering event takes place and we are forced to not only deal with the situation at hand, but also the consequences of much of what we have buried and carry around in secrecy. All at once everything comes out simply because it has to in order to perserve the self that we all carry around inside of our hearts. We can no longer sustain the secrecy and probable lies and evasions we have concocted to support our artificial lives, and we are forced to make painful choices that usually result in some sort of "starting-over" strategy. My favorite analogy for this is the one that has us standing in a pool with our hands under the surface holding a large number of ping pong balls under the surface. We sneeze, we cough, we get a cramp in our leg, or maybe we must simply scratch ourselves somewhere. Whatever it is we usually are forced to let all of the balls pop to the surface, and we have to start our activity of holding them under the surface of the pool again from scratch. This is how things in nature work at all levels. There is always some point where things are "tipped" and we have to start all over again (or nature does) to rebuild or replace some semblance of what ordered structure was lost in that brief moment of failure. Everything on G-d's greeen earth works this way. It cannot be avoided. Chaos tolerance is a requisite for life. Most of the evidence these days points to the fact that G-d is not a micro-manager of all things in the world. Sh/he sets all things in motion and has endowed us to act on His/her behalf to manage things from time to time. But even that has its limits from time to time and we must be prepared cope with chaotic episodes, individually and collectively. flow....