glintofpewter

Jakob Boehme, the first modern German theologian, 1575-1625, would agree that God is the source of everything: including whatever we call Good and whatever we call Evil. It is not two aspects of a dualistic god. It just the fact that all of creation is grounded in the same origin. Having a second god in competition to God is not monotheism Boehme is my favorite but there are many others who would say that God is not two sided or three sided or 27 sided. Good vs Evil is a human construct. We like dualism but I don't think it is accurate to project that need onto Ultimate Reality. Many passages in the Hebrew Bible recognize that God is the source of both good and harm. Dutch

Being impatient here is what I found John Last Supper, before passover 14 Nisan evening Crucifixion 14 Nisan afternoon Sacrifice of Lambs Synoptics Last Supper, Passover 15 Nisan evening Crucifixion 15 Nisan 9:00am However http://catholic-reso...Jesus-Death.htm AND http://bible.org/que...-passover-seder A long discussion of the history of the debate. It seems that either one or the other or both are true. Which is the best way a story can be told. Dutch

I don't think there is a need to make them agree. In John's account Jesus is the Paschal lamb, the way people were saved in Egypt.. In the Synoptics Jesus' narrative is connected to the people who remember and celebrate Exodus.

The synoptics use a 500 year old calendar and John used a brand new one a hundred years later. What is the evidence? I would think it would be easier to remember which day during passover things happened rather than the day irrespective of of passover. John had theological and political statments he wanted to make which I believe had a strong influence on how he organized the Gospel. Dutch

Based on my experience with Mormons in providing care for a family on the other side of the country and other contacts my conclusion is that exaggerated attacks obscure the fact that Mormons are caring, responsible participants in community life. I disagree with Mitt but he was an asset in Mass and the country survived his father as a governor without any dire events destroying the soul of America. Dutch

Brent, I have no idea if enculturation as a topic will get more than 5 replies. It would seem to involve 'faith formation', discipleship, knowing where the church building is, knowing what to expect in worship, perhaps knowing when it is safe to say something outrageous or not. Does my short list fall into your understanding? Dutch

There are conservative and progressive forces active in churches and other institutions. Having a higher authority to give certainty to your opinion will lead you to keep your opinion longer, maybe. But I see these forces active across all human activity and thought. Use of higher authority is active on both sides of the science and religion debates. Whether it's family dysfunctional traditions, fraternal hazing, or church dogma - all appeal to higher authority to justify the continuance of bad or damaging behaviors. Dutch

I don't know how much interest a topic on enculturation would draw. A significant number of us are "Believers in Exile", deculturated?. I guess I was wondering about the common era that both arose from but I don't know how long my interest would last. However . . . let's wait and see. Dutch

That made me smile. Years ago in a Presbyterian Church I heard the word enculturation to mean a kind of evangelism. Enculturation is was happens however one comes to attend a church and the first part here describes it very well in a language unique to my ear. I recently learned a little about Unity which was founded in 1889. They sound a lot like this this, how they position Jesus, how they describe spiritual growth, etc. Just some observations. Dutch

In considering God or ultimate reality or ground of being there is not need for gender. When we explore our intimate and personal relationship with the Divine it is hard to avoid gender.

After three years of separation Diane and I are getting back together. Each on our own journey recognized some of what we contributed to chaos before the split. Plan to move in together late summer. I am happy. Dutch

Paul, I like it very much. I am adding it to my collection of statements of faith I like. Dutch

I didn't get far. I was struggling to find a focus in this discussion of what 'religion' is and is not - sometimes seeming to be what it is not and sometimes seeming to not be what it is. Not always a wrong way to approach a spiritual experience since it is ineffable. Since I know from other discussion, that "True religion" is a personal spiritual experience, this use of the word "religion' seems careless language to describe both corporate and personal experiences. But the writer is not satisfied with the mystical, "it is what it is not" and introduces "Thought Adjuster" out of the blue Suddenly we are scientific and mechanistic in description.. To visualize the language I thought of a Jackson Pollack painting: lots of action (ideas) dripping splashing, the canvas filled with marks of all kinds failing to bring into focus an idea or two but creating an overall effect that is difficult to describe because the painting is and is not about the drips and streaks and slashes of paint. - and Lee Krasner creating the intellectual space so that others would see the paintings worthy of being called art and carrying meaning. Dutch

I think Bill and George have a viable suggestion, Go to the Authority: Where in the Bible? or What did Jesus say about this? The other idea to consider is to understand her motives because they are not because she is a Christian. That reasoning almost always comes after the reaction. John Haidt suggests 5-6 moral foundations that we all respond to before we start reasoning. The three that liberals ignore, according to Haidt are: Loyalty to your group, family, nation. (He also referred to this dimension as Ingroup.) Respect for tradition and legitimate authority. (He also referred to this dimension as Authority.) Purity or Sanctity, avoiding disgusting things, foods, actions. I think your friend is responding to these gut feelings and adding Christian reasoning. In your list I see concerns that come out of the "disgust reaction" (Purity), tribal loyalty, authority, wanting to feel safe, etc. Maybe you could have a conversation about who "us" is and stretch the boundaries of Loyalty, Purity and Authority. Peter had a vision about what is permissible to eat. Paul fought the requirement of circumcision. Both were stretching the boundaries of what is acceptable and who could be Christian. I think these comments also can be understood as coming from an Interdependent Self Worldview (Hazel Markus Independent Self (generally college graduates) vs. Interdependent Self (not college educated)) The Interdependents perceive a world that is not welcoming, they want to be part of a group and not stand out (for safety?), want to fit in, rooted, geographically and in their world views, and live in a ranked world where everyone has their place. They will follow the lead of people they perceive to be in authority and who have a conservative (in the traditional sense) worldview It may not help the relationship but it is something to think about. Dutch

When I went to Mexico with our youth group we were given a dress and behavior code so that we would not violate any local norms and reflect badly on our enterprise. It is worthwhile to think about our behavior and its effects on ourselves and our community. I don't think it can be a black and white list like the one you have listed. It is simpler but not required or sufficient. Guidelines must be more flexible to give better outcomes. Dutch

Working hard followed by playing hard - once again, Paul, can it get any better?

the Son of Man should be recovered from the tomb of traditional theology if Jesus of Nazareth is no longer sacrificed to even the splendid concept of the glorified Christ. if Jesus of Galilee is reinstated in the minds and souls of mortal men as the ideal of personal religious living Do professed Christians fear the exposure of a self-sufficient and unconsecrated fellowship of social respectability and selfish economic maladjustment? these are all interesting images and do relate to common theological questions of at least the last two centuries. The last point I listed is subject of occasional sermons. Each of the images might be worth a blog post or essay. How Jesus became Christ is the subject of more than one book. For me the florid writing of the next to last paragraph gets in the way of the conclusion: that knowing Jesus is the highest value. Brent, I will just have questions and you have 30 years of knowledge. Every idea on the 2000 pages is just a synapse away for you. For me I think these ideas are more accessible elsewhere. Dutch

Interesting contrast in the poems. You have posted several Larkin ones I think. I like them. Oh, to begin afresh each season, each day. Dutch

Trillions of inhabited planets is amazing. Having them named and organized and populated . . . well . . . dutch

We always think we are the first - Friedrich Schleiermacher (1768-1834) objected to the concept of salvation as deliverance from divine wrath. Rather, sin is the absence of God-consciousness and a consequent failure to be utterly dependent upon him.

Music often reveals the age of the producers or the age of the target audience.

Norm, I did not say that this was stupid but that you were smarter than this. I should not have said it this way and I apologize. I look forward to your posts. Your comments have a sense of being real and reasoned. I gravitate to your avatar when looking at a list of new comments. The above is a succinct variation of your criticism of religions. But I don't see how it is useful in the conversation. The generalizations aren't nuanced and don't fit the issues. Deities and what they command evolves, Animal sacrifice is not a permanent characteristic of religion. Common sense is problematic. There have been no animal sacrifices in Judaism or Christianity in two millennia. As George observed the study of religions does include an examination of the costly sacrifice but to say that sacrifice only happens in religion misses much about the nature of sacrifice and its importance of it to any group of people. If animal sacrifice taints a people or practices then the iconic birthplace of democracy, Athens, is tainted. If making a costly sacrifice for a higher good taints a people then the Civil War and Normandy Invasion taint America and Europe. Democracy is often born in the violent sacrifice of human lives. Deities are not counted and measured in general studies of the evolution of religions. Granted, the effect of some higher being watching our behavior is. But that shared understanding of right behavior which stands outside of any group and can therefore critique those in power is essential to the development of modern stable government, according to Fukuyama, who does not think that religion was always helpful. But in the West this independent sense of what is right evolved with the help of Christianity according to both fukuyama and John Keane, author of Life and Death of democracy. Keane says that democracy is the first human government in that it is not dependent on a deity or a religion for authority. In his view we didn't have democracy fully realized until the beginning of the 20th century and in the west religion helped us achieve the first secular government. We should not confuse the past with the future. Our Christian heritage does not make us a Christian nation. That perhaps the crowning achievement of democracy is that it is the first human, secular, government does not mean that the past would be better if stripped of religion. I think a discussion of the effect and co-evolution of religion can be more nuanced. Is the thinking of Francis Fukuyama and John Keane part of the common that makes sense? Dutch

Interesting choice of music.

Norm, I know you are smarter than this response suggests. Dutch

Yvonne, Paul, Thank you Dutch