glintofpewter

Heaven and hell are states of mind and heart that we move in and out of in this life. I just wish I had more control about which one I am in.

I always thought this was a reference to the Greek practice of an older mentor 'teaching' young boys about sex (by having sex with them) before they were married.

He speaks to some current arguments. Especially the irrational stuff Santorum said about California Supreme court's ruling on Proposition 8 which somehow violated freedom of religion. But it should read "the [adjective] Church. Not all the churches are the same.

The thread is still here. We did it last year. It is in my third testament so I wouldn't mind doing it again.

I read an op-ed piece awhile ago which concluded that American democracy is ill-suited for the polarized climate we are in. Unfortunately American democracy does not work well third parties. So power will switch back and forth with each side taking down what the other side put up and unilaterally building their own projects. George has mentioned Haidt's moral foundations and Lakoff's Nurturing Mother and Strict Father construct for understanding the divide. Hazel Markus provides another model: the Independent Self and the Interdependent Self. The "middle class", 27.5% of us who are college graduates, primarily works out of an Independent Model; the Working Class out of Interdependent model. Independents want to stand out because they are equal but better, want to influence the world which is considered welcoming, want to be free, unique. Interdependents perceive a world that is not welcoming, they want to be part of a group (for safety?), want to fit in, rooted, geographically and in their world views, and live in a ranked world where everyone has their place. They will follow the lead of people they perceive to be in authority and who have a conservative (in the traditional sense) worldview. Please don't reply to my notes as representing Ms. Markus views. She can be heard here: Being Human: Individual + Society & Morals + Culture http://fora.tv/2012/03/24/Being_Human_Individual__Society__Morals__Culture "There are two kinds of people" constructs are just that, constructs, but they all point to the values and world views that each side works out of. They cannot be ignored if non-polarized solutions are to be found. Dutch

John, It's like Obama's energy policy. It takes efforts by both liberals and conservatives. Not one or the other and not by demonizing the other. Dutch

The Arizona law does narrow the methods and opportunities for self chosen action. John Kerry in a faith based speech in 2004? said the achieving fewer abortions was something liberals and conservatives could agree on as a goal. So we have this on going conversation. I am in favor a setting a limit based on viability - healthy viability - of the fetus. My other suggestion is that if someones opposes abortion then step up to the delivery room and take responsibility for raising the child. Make them a wanted child and take them home. When there is no need for a Foster Child Care System then lets talk about abortions. Dutch

We know what we do and we know what we consider 'out of bounds' and we know what we are afraid of - but we have no idea what happened next door unless they put on a show. And that's the problem. It's all in our heads and in our own fears. Sometimes relationship will help. Years ago I worked with several gays. One day one of them, out of his homophobia, described which acts and which positions he would or would not do. I was embarrassed - and surprised by his choices. We don't know. And I don't want to know. As long as it is an act which builds wholeness. Dutch

Salmon fishing - thanks for the recommendation.

George, thanks for the review. I guess I want to read the look. Dutch

I have found the following idea difficult. Are there an ever increasing number of colors in the rainbow each acknowledging the light as source not destination? Our unity is not in the end but in the beginning. ...life is not like a river but like a tree. It does not move towards unity but away from it and the creatures grow further apart as they increase in perfection. Good, as it ripens, becomes continually more different not only from evil but from other good. C. S. Lewis, the Great Divorce, Preface

Thanks, Norm. Can I quote you? Dutch

If you wanted to feel loved beyond all understanding the story of divine condescension in the crucifixion is a story that might elicit that. If you wanted a hero/ine who saved a village with her death then the crucifixion is a story that portrays that. Story is powerful. Literalism, the West's inclination to write creeds and the use of institutional power turn something live into something dead. Sometimes we need to dig deeper into the story, sometimes we need to cast stories aside because they have lost their meaning Dutch

http://www.asksam.co...chEbooks=Search For those who want to search Obama's words here is a link to site that has his speeches. This specific link is for search results for "Bible" in his speeches. an excerpt I am nervous about this topic but I thought I would find research material. Dutch

Just to be clear The exercise of a discussion without labels would do us well.

Any possibility we can discuss his religious expressions without labels? Can we describe his religious beliefs without "progressive" or "liberal"? Unless he claimed the label himself? The exercise would do us well. Dutch

FWIW I would take one narrow topic at a time. These discussions tend to loose focus. For instance, if you are going to talk about the authority of Scripture topic 1: Can a text give witness to its own veracity and authority? topic 2: Historical evidence: one piece at a time: The dating of the flood, archaeological evidence for David, the dating and manner of the conquest of Canaan, etc. One piece at a time. topic 3: Scientific evidence. The evolution of the eye, if that is to be offered as evidence for intelligent design, the Great Unconformity between the Tapeats Sandstone, which is dated at about 500 million years old, and the Hakatai Shale, which is dated at about 1.5 billion years old, if that is to offered as evidence You can ignore me. I don't always have the best ideas. Dutch

Our Palm Sunday Service was wonderful. Mark 14 passages alternating with silences, songs, readings, clips from Jesus Christ Superstar, images for the reading of the Triumphal Entry. Communion served at the appropriate point in the narrative. showed the powerful clip of Jesus and Judas from Superstar.

Guapo, You experienced healing. That is an authentic experience I respect. All the rest of the stuff gets in the way, and is perhaps off topic. Dutch

I think in this group the patients knew they were being prayed for. Those who did not know had no difference I think.

Eric, I think we are struggling for the words which best express our thoughts. I would rewrite the fragment above thus: while seeking dialog and conversation with other religions The real challenge is to be in dialog with non-progressives in our own Christianity. Dutch

Eric, it is a good summary but I guess that I am not astute. While I believe there can be meaningful conversation, communion and shared values among systems I do not prefer we evolve beyond our particular bent towards - what? one religion. Diversity rather than unity is a higher value in expression of our religious practices. Otherwise, good job. Dutch

Since Yvonne has brought us back on track I'll be brief. 1. A fraud does not invalidate the field of endeavor. Marion Jones' illegal doping which was not discovered until 2007 after 7 years of fame and fortune does not mean that track should be eliminated as an Olympic sport. Fraudulent Faith Healers do not invalidate faith healing as a category of experience. 2. We have two sources of knowledge. Materialist science focuses on external relations of entities. Whitehead says that we are deluded if we feel that this study of external relations tells the whole picture. Since we are also related internally our experiences or feelings of beauty, goodness, love, God, healing are also valuable in coming to know reality. 3. A Greek God with absolute qualities? Don't know him. Dutch

The amputated arm aimless looking for an elbow to lean on is an incomplete challenge in the world of process thought. Process thought sees that all things, from atoms and cells to humans, are related externally and internally. There is the external world which is what we refer to as objective and there is an internal world, which we call subjective. In a process approach to faith healing the reports of those who have experienced such healing are evidence to be considered not demeaned. Dutch

Hi, BibleRiot, Welcome. Why don't you introduce yourself in the Introduction forum. Your blog expresses a lot of certainty. You won't find much of that here. Dutch