glintofpewter

Yes, George, Parsis My memory and hearing. From NPR: All the vultures in India have disappeared. Instead of hours for the dead to be stripped of flesh, it now takes days because smaller birds take longer. We have the choice to extend our sphere of influence or not. Alone that is not negative or positive. We can enhance life wherever. I don't like 'switch and bait" ministries, etc. either. But we knew these answers when the thread started. How many needs can an individual respond to? When you have kids in school and there is not enough money to buy new computers should you send money to Somalia or help the fund raiser at school? Why? What is your sphere of influence today? Be here now. Later the sphere will change and may include Somalia. I have been wondering about scattering my donations versus focusing on one or two efforts, thereby becoming more invested and having more influence. Would Jesus approve if one of those were the arts? Does that mean I am departmentalizing my life? Political votes: There are slimy politicians but not all are. Shouldn't a discussion of strict father and nuturing mother be here? How does elitism amd anti-intellectualism affect this discussion? Dutch

He is only rejecting some of the data. I saw part of a conservative "See how science reveals God's providence" type video. They were reviewing 14 billion years since the big bang exclaiming in wonder about God's handiwork. Just not human evolution. That still leaves a lot of room for fundy scientists to play with. Dutch

Raven A man, who is Greek Orthodox, is upset that the school board will not agree to advise him ahead of time if topics are going to arise in the classroom ------------- If this is accurate then he is barking up the wrong tree. Get to know his kid's teachers. And ask his kids to wake up and pay attention so they will know if something demonic is about to come down the pike. OR He could grow up, be a parent and help his kids deal with a world that is not perfect and in which not all people agree. Dutch

George Should I give to some local charity (like a school trip) that benefits middle class, American kids, or to a charity that feeds starving people in Somalia? ---o-o---o--------- Both of these are in our sphere of influence because of money. Values might guide our choices. We might be less able to make a difference in the vulture-Farsi problem. Dutch

It seems that science and evolution are the underdog if the govt has to order that evolution be in textbooks. At least a plurality believe in evolution, http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=science-and-archaeopteryx-win-over-creationism-south-korea&WT.mc_id=SA_CAT_EVO_20120910 Dutch

Perhaps petty - for my ego. We can offer someone the results of our critical thinking but it is not constructive unless something is constructed. A theater reviewer can offer her critical thinking about a play, its meaning and its place in history. She can judge the play as poor good or best. None of that critical thinking is constructive. She may have an opinion about whether the play works well on a thrust stage versus theater in the round. If the director or producers don't agree or ignore or refuse to consider the ideas I don't think that is constructive. To say that it is puts all the power in the hand of the critic. The shared thinking must in some way empower the critiqued to do a new thing for it to be constructive. I guess only the critiqued can authentically say that it was constructive criticism otherwise the critic assumes they have the best answer. I agree, Joseph, with your comments on blaming, fault finding, and criticism based on psychological or ideological needs. Dutch

I would bring in Haidt's five moral foundations as a lens to view this. They are Caring, Fairness, Purity, Loyalty and (I'll have to look for the 5th one.) These moral foundations are universal. Haidt offers a criticism of liberals that we are only concerned about the first two and ignore the other three. Haidt challenges us to speak to these. I started this post to build a bridge but I come up against elitism and anti-intectualism. Liberal concern for purity is focused on purity in food, etc. Liberal concern for loyalty is global? Well perhaps our loyalty is to the social justice issue which energizes us most. Sometimes we can't understand why every one isn't as concerned we are about the disappearance of all vultures in India. Augustine tells us (I trust my son here) that our sphere of influence should determine where we attend to the brokenness in the world. If one is not concerned with the death of so many vultures (a real issue for Farsi) because one can have no effect is that tribalism? To be clear I believe fear, powerlessness, and a belief that there is not enough to go around keep the tribal circle small Dutch

PaulS Normally I think it's regarded as constructive if it is warranted (see above example), but is it constructive if the receiver doesn't want to consider the criticism and instead puts barriers up between them and the critic? -------------- Can it be constructive if the receiver doesn't see it as valid information - for whatever reason. At work there is an issue or two that always are raised in listening meetings. Everytime. The employee is convinced that this question would make the world work as it should. Management does not follow up with an effective response - or the critic doesn't hear it. Next time issue is brought up again. How much does it count if the receiver does not see an application? How much does it count if the criticism is correct or not? Is it the critical thinker who determines that what is said is constructive or is it the receiver? I think it is both. Critiquing whether or not it is valid depends on a response. If there is no response - and the critic has no power to change things - then it is not constructine Dutch

I don't believe I that I have committed the ultimate sin so an ultimate animal(human) sacrifice is not needed to save me. Also I don't think the best readings of the Garden of Eden story includes rebellion as the source of all evil so there is nothing to redeem by sacrifice universally. Jesus's death is a powerful story. But a sacrifice in my stead no longer makes sense. Dutch

DCJ: However, people typically use "socialism" to mean using government muscle to take something owned by one group to give it to a different politically favored group. ------------- From the founding of the USA people like Madison, Hamilton, and Adam Smith said that there is partnership between the government and the wealthy. Isn't that 'socialism' for the rich and shouldn't they pay for the protection they get. Through providing infrastructure, keeping the poor from too much protesting and creating regulations or lack there of that favor corporations and financial insitutions and tax breaks - I am sure others can add to this list. The rich should pay for what they get. Dutch

Placebos have an evolutionary benefit. http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg21528812.300-evolution-could-explain-the-placebo-effect.html?DCMP=OTC-rss&nsref=evolution

) Ask them to read Acts 13:51 and to do likewise or tell them that you will follow Scripture this time. Depends on whose house you are in.

Wow! What a complete introduction. Welcome. Dutch

Churches often share this cost. LTQ2 is now $75 for the DVDs. http://livingtheques...ltq2-ad-nyt.jpg Often adult classes do book studies in which each participant buys a book @ $10 each. LTQ2 has 21 episodes. If you ask for donations each session - just as Alpha does - I would think you would receive at least $1 each session from each participant. In a series with 8 students you would get more than enough to pay for the materials. Since LTQ, the first, has been around for so long I suspect you could find a copy free to use and return if you asked around. Living the Questions fits the need I think. The first Living the Question series was used as adult curriculum in many many mainline liberal churches when it came out just as Alpha is fashionable now with conservatives. I imagine LTQ2 has received a good reception also. In a quote from a promo for the book Marcus Borg says. "... virtually a manifesto for Progressive Christians." LTQ is not a para-church organization like Alpha which sets their own schedule. Groups in and out of churches can choose to use LTQ when they want. Dutch

I have a relative who expresses concern over my salt intake while I am eating and whether I am being aggressive in seeking treatment for any condition they perceive I have.They might offer suggestions for rearranging furniture also. All of which border violating to make my own choices. Dutch

Wikipedia covers the etymology of religion. There seem to be several roots.

This article has its problems but it does list many instances in which other sacred texts (or none) were used for oath taking. Notice that many went unnoticed in kinder and gentler times. http://en.wikipedia....States_Congress Keith Ellison took his ceremonial reenactment oath on Jefferson Koran. Really. http://www.washingto...7010300075.html Sacred play can be so meaningful and fun. I do not mean this as sarcastic. By allowing Ellison to be who he is and then looking for ways to connect with the rich history of our country we have a significant moment.

In between a teenager and a young child - now those are good years.

Offerings in 'Adult Curriculum https://progressivechristianity.org/resource-types/adult-curriculum/

The "Living the Questions" book is available at progressivechristianity.org for $10.98 http://progressivechristianity.org/resources/living-the-questions-the-wisdom-of-progressive-christianity/

Fundamentalists are happy to choose one authority and cling to it; liberals would rather 'live in tension'. When the question is asked one needs to know the context. I once worked with a pastor who wanted to firm up the center in a church where fundamentalists were gradually having more influence. We dreamed of a new member class that teach what reformed Christianity (20th cent mainline) was about. It turned out not to be practical. I think there is material available. Here is a link to Common Sense Christianity, a book available online. http://www.religion-online.org/showbook.asp?title=3145 In 2009 we discussed the book. Here is a link to the thread. http://tcpc.ipbhost.com/index.php?/topic/1488-common-sense-christianity/page__p__16768__hl__randolph#entry16768 Some PCs would find it too conservative. It was progressive in 1989. Dutch

Considering the research that suggests inherited brain functioning predicts political and religious leanings I think it is difficult for each of us to find that place where we are actually free to exercise a choice. We can't avoid interjecting our values into the religious and political dialog and we can't separate them. We can try to avoid using one as a weapon against the other.

Here is one thread that discusses atonement. http://tcpc.ipbhost.com/index.php?/topic/2874-hello-whats-your-favourite-atonement-theory/page__pid__35453#entry35453 And another http://tcpc.ipbhost.com/index.php?/topic/2758-question-about-jesus-dying-for-our-sins/

Jeffry, I am glad you are here. Dutch

Joseph wrote I don't think we 'should' do this; I think we cannot avoid it. The challenge is to stop being unconscious about it. Dutch