JosephM

A maple tree is planted in my back yard and here in the spring ten thousand seeds fall like whirly birds in the wind. Yet none of them will be allowed to take root. Each seed has its potential for a new tree yet the tree knows nothing of right and wrong and just goes about producing and releasing seed as it was designed. Perhaps we could learn something from a tree. Just musing, Joseph

Fatherman, Good to hear from you again. missed your perspectives. I think that God becomes human (so to speak) in each of us and not just Jesus. I also think we have always been reconciled with God but weren't aware of it so we invented blood sacrifices to do so, and when they became no longer a sufficient answer, we made up the cross story which is one way to attempt to permanently once and for all purge our conscience of the guilt that separated us in mind. And it does work to those who believe. However, it is my view that we were never in reality really separated. In my view, it is not possible. I believe there have been those who well before Jesus figured that out and were reconciled without any blood or human sacrifice or religion. Just my thoughts for consideration on the matter, Joseph

Well said Eric. Joseph

Paul, I think the point here is that IF one is cured of some disease or affliction and it is verified in some way, saying well that can't be true because there is no record of faith healers causing new arms to grow, in my view, in no way invalidates that there is no valid faith healing. The question of whether 'faith healers' have even prayed for arm amputees growing new arms after prayer, i am not aware of. Why God would give faith to an individual for one thing and not another IS a valid question for which i personally have no answer. But to me the argument does not invalidate 'faith healing'. Of course if one thinks it does, to me that is fine as i have no quarrel with those who choose to believe differently. I would just disagree. Just my own thoughts, Joseph

Neon, I Split off your complaint from this thread and responses from your cautioned post to the complaint section. Please continue any complaint you have with your caution there.as this thread topic is only for opinions on Faith Healing JosephM (as Moderator)

Neon, Public caution... All here are free to make up their own mind and express their opinion on whether they believe or not and why and even challenge the statements of others but there is no need to attack with such statenemts such as "God must have something against amputees or more likely the faith healers are full of it. " It adds nothing to ones position or view and is not appropriate to be used in debate here.. It is enough to say something like 'that in my research no one has healed an amputee, therefore my conclusion is faith healing is not real or God must have something against amputees'. JosephM (as Moderator)

Guapo, It seems obvious to me from your posts here that you are not in agreement with the 8 points of Progressive Christianity or progressive in your views. Read our guidelines here under this forum. You are most welcome to respond and debate in the Debate and Dialog forum but not post in this thread or threads under the Progressive Christianity forum which is reserved for those who do. One of our moderators has asked you to please introduce yourself in the introduction area so we can better get to know you and where you are coming from and are looking for from this community. It is customary for a guest member here to do so. Please comply and then start a thread in the Debate area on any subject you would like to discuss, ( This area is not for debate between those who identify with PC's and those who do not) Thanks for your cooperation. JosephM (as Admin)

Thanks for all your effort Derek. Been following and reading some but have no further comments. Joseph

Paul, I think you misread my post you quoted. You said " I would disagree with Joseph that it doesn't really matter if the healing is a fraud or not." I said "We can celebrate with him and it really doesn't matter if one says the healing is a fraud or genuine." Note i did not not say a fraudulent representation of a healing didn't matter but rather in this particular case of Yvonne in which it is obvious to her that her nephew was once afflicted but now appears healed it doesn't matter whether wants to speak of it as a fraud or genuine because what is important is as far as he is concerned the affliction is not present in his body as it was in the past. It seems to me that people put their health and life in jeopardy by success stories of others in all areas of life including doctors and medications. Personally I am not overly concerned with those choices of others. If they ask ones opinion, one can advise them of potential fraud or risk factors but ultimately the choice is theirs to make. Which of us truly knows what is best for the other? Just my opinion, Joseph

Yvonne, I'm happy for him also. Some of us don't need explanations for everything. It is enough to be thankful that once he was afflicted but now he is healed. We can celebrate with him and it really doesn't matter if one says the healing is a fraud or genuine. One is free to believe or disbelieve or just be skeptical. I choose to believe from my own experience that such things do happen without scientific explanation and i am as you , happy for him.. Joseph

Jenell, Would not "selfless love" include a call to do that?

This Chapter on craving while it appears as wise advise to me speaks too much of the subject. While craving can certainly lead to a destructive life, i do not see craving as something to be anymore than acknowledged for what it is. In my view, to try to destroy it as suggested and conquer it is to make it stronger. To see it .... is sufficient. I think we overcome not by fighting or seeking to destroy but by awareness of what is and trust that the 'other' or higher power that sustains us is well able to deliver us from "Mara" or any other perceived enemy by trust/acknowledgment of and in that power in all our ways. In doing this, will not even 'craving' fall away? Joseph

I would agree with George. I have personally witnessed many healings and have been used in enough experiences that i have no doubt that what appears as 'faith healing' is in many cases true. The scientific details of how or why those actual healings take place i can not begin to say other than they did. Why some appear to be healed and others not i also can not say. Joseph. PS More related views can be found in a thread called "Does 'your' Christianity involve the Supernatural"

Below is the re-numbered and restated 8 Points of Progressive Christianity.Org Please start a new thread to discuss any of the 2011 re-stated Points as this thread is for easy member reference only and is pinned and locked to replies for convenience sake. JosephM (as Admin)

Just a suggestion concerning virus protection concern. AVG free is an excellent anti virus software at no cost. Haven't had a virus in years using it..

Derek, While hell in Christianity is often taken as eternal, perhaps the word eternal is only applied to the state that exists eternally which indeed has no bearing on how long one in time remains in that state. For if the word heaven as it does in Greek denotes an 'elevated state' then it seems to me hell would be its de-elevated state. If these were "physical places" then obviously both would be impermanant, but if not than perhaps they are merely states of mind. And being so they may be eternal in a sense only and as with Buddhism i think one could say experience of both is educative and redemptive in nature. Joseph

You contributed well Ronnie. I think we reap what we sow. While it seems true to me that one man's life and death may have an impact on our life just as reading biographies about our heroes and those we admire has some impact on us and our future actions, God/Reality is not not mocked. We pass through the consequences of our actions in some way. With or without the death of a person, i believe we are and were forgiven before and after the man Jesus came on the scene.. Unconditional love created us with the potential and infinite possibilities we are experiencing. In my view, we are as designed/created and are evolving. In a sense, there is nothing for God to forgive. It seems to me if forgiveness is needed it is only from us for one another and ourselves. Just one way to look at the question, Joseph

Derek, Thanks for those words. I see the 'walk/practice' very similar to your first paragraph. And thanks for the quote of Merton. which always seems to speak well. Joseph

Welcome Hhanover, Glad to hear you are enjoying Spong. Hope you also find this community an enjoyable and interesting one. Joseph

Hollis, Sweet and short. I think most all here would agree with your statement.

E-Bulletins are now available to all without first becoming an affiliate of Progressive Christianity.org. You can enroll for free and start any related discussions concerning them in a thread under Progressive Christianity or Debate and Dialog with a reference to the e-bulletin being referenced. Use whatever area is appropriate for your intent. Joseph

It would seem to me that to be attached to "our" works as hidden or presented is the same thing.

Six additional Posts moved from this thread to NEW THREAD . Please keep thread focused on stated intent of Post 1 (opening post) which is to get each persons opinion on what Progressive Christianity is to them. Off topic discussions should have their own thread. JosephM (as Moderator)