JenellYB

Thanks, Raven! Gotta share this one on my own FB page..... Jenell

Yes, unfortunately, "gluten-free" has become a diet fad thing, see it being recccomendned all over the place for any and everybody, as if gluten is somehow 'bad for' all humans to eat....I think you should stress that your own need IS based on actual celiac disease rather than fad and fashion. Jenell

Suffering TCPC withdrawal symptoms.... :/ Lots of hours getting back into the flow working again, been getting more hours than I'd hoped for just getting back into it, plus helping my daughter make full use of my laid-off son-in-law to get some repairs around both their place and mine here caught up before he finds another job or the company he's been working for gets a new contract... Jenell

I see a basic flaw in these idea of there being "choice" in matters of heaven or hell, accepting or rejecting god, in that before there can be "choice" there must be informed options frown which or between whuch to choose. And I simply do not see that humans are universally and inevitable informed of such options as "choosing" to accept or reject god, or an ultimate destiny of eternity in heaven or hell. This was a critical flaw evident even to my own young mind as a little child, and it baffled me even then hwo the grown-ups seemed unable to see it. And it seemed there was such incinsistency in what they did beleive and teach...I was taught to sing 'Jesus love all the little children of the world,', but then, that many, even most of those children were doomed to hell because they'd not accept Christ, most for never even having heard about Christ, or Christian ideas about heaven and hell and salvation doctrines. How could god condemn to hell people that never even heard of any of that? Even then such claims by preachers and such that at some point in every persons life, they had the chance to "choose Jesus", are obviously absurd to me! That all makes this salvation thing all about being 'lucky enough' (yeah, God's will crap) to run into someone that will tell them about Jesus and Christian salvation, and 'wise enough' (gullible enough?) to accept it as truth in any of the really outraegous forms it may be presented to them. I could never see god placing such a burden of a 'choice' on everyone without even letting all of them in on what choice there was or even that there was a choice! Jenell

I've read about, seen some documentaries on, Lourdes and a few other sites with such reputation. And, the rigorous process through which the Catholic Church might consider or decalre any such healings as 'miracles.' I do respect the Catholic Church greatly for that, in comparison with how careless and downright untrustworthy claims of miraculous healings are touted and accepted in fundamentalist and charismatic churches and 'ministries.' I can't say i know what is/isn't true or 'real' in these matters. but what I've seen does leave me with some intriguing questions. Given the huge number of people that travel to such a place as Lourdes, and the relative few confirmed cases of 'miraculous' healings' I have to wonder how those rates/odds would compare to occurences anywhere in general, that may be due to spontaneous remissions, mis-diagnosis, actual 'cure' by 'accidental effective treatment' etc. I do know all those things are more common than most people realize, even in 'traditional' health care and even without health care at all. I have personally know of one or more of each of those kinds of unexpected, or inexplicable, 'recoveries' myself. There was quite a stir in the medical community and society at large when recent release of results of several long term studies involving breat cancer and mammograms in women revealed much higher rates of confirmed breast cancer in women getting annual mammograms than among those having them done only every 5 years. The first thought, that the annual mammograms might actually be causing the increased breast cancer rates was effectively ruled out pretty quickly, but what was eventually accepted as the most likely explanation, that was supported by further investigation and research, was that early stage breast cancer tumors spontaneously remit far more frequently than had been realized. Further invesitgation revealed that many cases of early stage breast cancer diagnosis in which for various reasons the women were NOT treated at all, yet were later found free of the cancer, which has long been attributed to initial mis-diagnosis, now seem to involve a mich higher rate of spontaneous remission than had been considered. Other cancers have been found to have much higher rates of spontaneous remissions, especially in early stages. However, this does not really change how early stage cancers should be treated upon discovery and diagnosis, becasue at least for now, there is no way to know which would remit spontaneously and which are going to advance in development. As for mis-diagnosis in general, even with our modern and oft supposed high quality health care, misdiagnosis and missed-diagnosis rates are possible so high as to scare the wits out of any of us that may trust this system! My late ex-husband was treated for recurring illnesses and even hosptialized multiple times with multiple doctors in one of the most respected medical centers in this country, even the world, for over 2 years, until ultimately he sufferred irreversible pulmonary failure and spent his last 2 yrs...a total of being sick 4 yrs---before he passed away. The doctor overseeing the nursing home where he spent his last 2 yrs, on a ventilator, looked his medical records over, and without ever even having seen or examined him yet, asked why he had not been tested for Adult Lymphatic Leukemia...according to him, his was a "text-book" case in every way. The test was done, and at last, too late, my ex-husband was diagnosed with ALL, This is a disease that while incurable, if begin on relatively inexpensive drug therapy in early stages, with which most patients actuallty go on to live put a normal life span. I could cite details of any number of cases of mis or missed diagnosis I've known of personally. As for "accidental cures", I know a man that had multiple surgeries every couple years, for over 25 yrs, to removed recurring benign brain tumors. He underwent bi-annal scans and other tests to monitor the regrowth toward determining when surgery to remove their masses was indicated again. Completely unrelated to that condition, he developed severe pneumonia, treatment for which involved a good deal of powerful antibiotics and other drugs via IV plus oral follow-up. When he went for his routine scans to check on regrown of his brain tumors several months later, there was no sign of them at all, even the regrowth observed prior to the pneumonia incident was gone! That was 12 yrs ago now, and STILL there has been no re-growth of the tumors! Miracle? I don't think so, neither do doctors....none would venture to guess what connected to his pneumonia and treatment affected it, but agree it most likely something did. The last of my questions have to do with why there should be any particular location, or religious shrines, such as Lourdes or others famed for this, connected to miraculous healings. and why of so many that visit such places, such a relative few experience miraculous healings. Jenell Among the Lourdes' cases, are also multiple cases of MS, a condition also noted for spontaneous remission AND difficulty in accurate diagnosis, and frequent mis-diagnosis.

I don't make a practice of putting myself in a postion of needing one. I'm much more likely to BE the desginated driver! Intrigued at the idea and potentials of 'ethnobotanicals' when I was around some into that kind of thing a few years ago, and one of my hobbies being North American cacti, I actually added to my collection some species known for their 'usefulness' in that way...they are growing quite well for me, and I have learned about 'extracting processes' for their 'use', but I'm too chicken--maybe I'm a control freak and can't get into the idea of deliberately entering a state in which I'm not in control of my own mind and actions---to actually follow through on them, lol! One of my son-in-laws that knows about them jokes that if word ever gets out what's growing out there in my cacti patch, I'll need to get a taller, stronger fence, and some mean-tempered big dogs! Jenell

I don't think of it as God 'causing' or 'allowing' or of suffering having some 'purpose,'...suffering, of the physical body, mind, emotions, is simply part of the conditions of this life experience in this world. Jenell

Norm, all I can attest to is what I've experienced. When that therapist worked on me, i knew nothing of energy work, or that she was 'using' anything like that. So it was neither belief nor placebo effect. Later, when I've encountered it again, I can feel it, experience it, through the touch of some people, and that even without any knowledge of that person or that they are an 'opened' energy channel, or worker. I sometimes detect it in just the most casualtouch, a common social handshake, someone casually touching my arm or some such. It is a very distinct feeling, somewhat mildly electrical, sometimes warm. even hot, but it is quite distinct if one has ever experienced it. There are occasional people so strongly open, that transmit so strongly, you can feelit just in theirn presence, even without at touch...such ones as in some communities might be said to be "annointed." But it also cannot be forced upon someone unwilling, with defenses up, against either the energy itself, or the person through which it may be transmitted. When I say I do not 'use' it often for that many are afraid of it, i mean that I CANNOT do so. And many in religious circles are quick to 'condemn' any such 'energy' or 'power' as might be coming through someone NOT fitting their limited and usually heirarchical criteria, part of their religious sect, speaking their particualr religious jargon, speaking in tongues, approved by their pastor, whatever. Reiki and Therapeutic touch are now commonly avaiable to patients at some major medical centers (patients at MD Anderson Cancer center have complimentary access to such therapy) and offerred in training courses for nurses and others that deal hand-on with patients. Theraputic touch has shown to have remarkable positive effect when administered to critically ill and preemie infants. No placebo effect could be at work with infants. Raven, btw, your mention of being able to "feel" something when your friend in a distant location prayed for you, is consistent with advanced energy work..."distance healing" is an advanced level skill taught where energy work is taken seriously, and without doubt, someone that has spontaneiously of their own, developed these gifts, many well be able to do so even if they know nothing of formal energy training, or that it is what they are doing. These energies are very much of love, the one working with, conveying, transmitting, must and can only do so by moving mentally, psychologically, and emotionally into a very deeply submitted loving state of consciousness. Jenell

I hear or read about the really stupid and downright dangeorus, even cruel, things some have induced others to do while "under the infleunce" of some mind/consciousness altering substance, or that someone has experienced while 'high' or 'tripping' alone or only with other 'trippers' without a trusted "sober" person, in a safe place, and think, that's got to be a form of insanity. While I've experienced alcohol, I've never used other such drugs or substances, but even if I'm going to drink a bit, may even possibly more than I should, so I'm impaired, the danger of not having a trusted sober companion to look after my safety seem obvious. I have had some personal encounter with actual serious shamans, some Native American, so other ethnic connected, and they've really put a lot into both knowledge and preparation when using altering substances, and, when overseeing others, take seriously their responsibility. And quite simply, anyone not emotionally and psychologically stable can end up with some pretty serious longer term lingering adverse effects. That preparation, btw, is not merely for the immediate occasion of any usage, but in preparing themselves mentally and psychologically as part of their "calling," as well as over the days and hours before a planned 'trip to the underworld.' Casual recreational use seems just more risky than I'm willing to take a chance on. Jenell

Wise words to keep in mind...always be very careful in choosing traveling companions! And that's especially important in choosing and appointing a designated driver for a trip! Jenell

Welcome, Stephanie! Sounds like you'll fit right in here! Looking forward to your participation and contributions to this discussion community! Jenell

Your observation may actually support and be consistent with the point I am suggestiing. Less aggressively controlling traditions, in this sense I have raised for consideration, have been in decline for a good while now, perhaps even since the age of reason and modernity got under way, as it has become of decreasing relevance or importance to each new generation whether they had the blessing of and acceptance of a church/church community or not. In the more, perhaps the words is, "genteel" traditions of the mainstream churches, when such simple controls over behaviors and allegiances to the church as 'granting' or 'with holding' right to participate in Communion, threats of excommunication, etc, progressively failed to successfully "hold" people under church control, the path forward into the future began to naturally split in generally two "directions." One, those content to sit where they were, so to speak, shake their heads perhaps at those leaving, to carry on as they always had in their old traditions. In some of those, efforts at response were less about "cracking down" to try to restore control through stonger demands and threats of godly puishment, and more about trying to reach people through offerring love and care as incentive, often hoping to attract and hold through a more positive social community, ie the continued mainstream, and those that reacted toward increased efforts to grab back control, ie toward the fundamentalist bent. The mainstream tendency toward more "genteel" responses, trying to offer a more positive social experience as part of member's lives, has had a poor go of it, I think, for reasons largely related to changes in how people live and interact...our increasingly moblie society, even nomadic and isolated in the sense people more to far flung areas to work and live rather than remianing within inteconnected communties, and dramatic increase in so amny sorts of entertainment and engagement in interesting pursuits of all sorts have provided "competition" to anything people one got from invlovement in a church community. Jenell

I've begun to think what we are witnessing in the rise of outspoken and intrusive fundamentalist religion in our society might involve similarities and parallels to a common and readily recognized psychological phenomenon relating to abusive, controlling individuals in their relationships to others. A person with an abusive, controlling personality developes patterns, skills, coping devices, through which abusive tactics are used to intimidate, demoralize and manipulate their victims to maintiin their control over them. When the abusive, conntrolling person percieves a victim is starting to break those bonds of control, threatening the abuser's power to continue to hold them under control, the abuser/controlling person classically begins to escalate their demands and attempt to intimidate and maintian their position of control. There is abundance evidence that a victim is in the greatest danger of serious harm or even death when they try to break away, leave the abuser. Consider all the similarities of fundamentalist, oppressive religion to classic abusive/controlling personalities in individuals, the emotional and psychological tactics used to bring and hold others under their control, submitted to their abuse. Irrational, fundamentalist, authoritarian religion and religious intitutions have been losing power over larger and larger percentages of the population for a good while now, and I think that has hit the crisis point in the intitutions and culture of religion. The abuse is going on rampage trying to re-establish control through escalation of the same abusive old tactics that had worked in the past. But changes in society, including advances in science and other knowledge of reality, have evolved into a society in which that is less and less effective. Jenell

I'd say no, not any particular overall director or guide, other than my inner one, but, yes, I've definitely had and have many teachers, and even mentors that serve to help me along my journey in particular ways at particular times, especially through some rather rough spots along the way. I truly believe the saying, when/as the pupil is ready, the teacher will appear. A friend or other person I can let down and really talk to about such matters? No. This forum is the closest I have, or think I've ever had, to that. Jenell

I agree there are certain basic, core level universals and constants....that is both why a quite different response to one situation is called for than for another, and why what is called for in one cannot be simply applied to another. The difference of context, what's going on, all involved in a given situation, mean meeting those same basic core elements are going to be met differently in different situations. What is the loving thing or the just thing in one matter can be quite different in another. Placed into social/cultural contexts, how any particular one thing fits in with every other element of that cuture or social environment makes signficiant differences in how those underlying principles are best met. Consider such a matter as death penalty, for those determined too dangerous to allow to continue to live in the community. The safety and well-being of all others must be protected, out of love for all others. But cultural and developmental differences present different options for accomplishing that...a relatively primitive society lacking really secure reliable facilities for making sure that person is kept secured from the rest of society presents very different realities than such as our modern environment with secure prison facilities. What could, say, Eskimos or Chukchis or Pacific Islanders really do with a dangeorus homicidal person that threatened everyone's safety, but put him to death? That's at the extreme end of example, but thats the idea. Cultures/societies that allowed no acceptable or honorable and safe place within them for women alone with children, and no man responsible for her and them, had to have in place much different cultural and social practices and constraints on behaviors and actions that resulted in many single mothers within that society. While those measures may seem oppressive and 'wrong' to us today, we are not in that realizing what a vast difference there is here and now from then in the realities faced by single women with children. Even those in that plight through no "wrong" or "sin" of their own, were victims of rape, sexual abuse, or abandonment by husbands/fathers, and without family that might take them in, faced options such as slavery, forced prostitution, or living as homeless beggars at the mercy of the cruelty of any that chose to abuse them. In the biblical story of the Israelites and the promised land, the stage had been set earlier in the story by God having promised that land to Abraham and his descendants 'forever', so their entry after the Exodus was, in the bibical story, a "return" to a homeland....something that could not by any stretch of even religious imagination be applicable and compable to European Christians entering foreign lands and committing genocide on the native inhabitants! I could never see how those european christians possilby came up with that idea! Jenell