JosephM

Conservative in what ways? Uncomfortable how? Just asking as a member...

Congratulations. In my view, that seems a good place to be There is no confusion in "I don't know" unless what follows is "But i should know" or "I need to know". You are, in my experience, closer to clarity when you don't identify with conceptual images in your mind. After all, ones real sense of self comes when you cease looking to conceptual thoughts to identify with. Just some musings concerning the issue you mention, joseph

Welcome George and Annette, While this is an internet community and not really a church of sorts, i am certain you will find a group of like minded individuals here who place more emphasis on the search for Truth and our behavior than any dogmatic or doctrinal certainty concerning beliefs. We would be most happy for you to consider this a home of sorts and share your perspectives on issues of interest.. Joseph

Most definitely. They even have there own organization, HERE

Yvonne, Be creative. Put an add in the paper. Advertise on the radio. A web site. Mike started a web site with contact and meeting info and people locally emailed him and attended at a restaurant at first. Knock on doors in your neighborhood and pass out a paper with your purpose, time and place for the first meeting. Pray for ideas to put on paper to pass out that will move people to attend and act on your intuition. There is no magic secret. You can do it if you want with a little footwork and a committment to your idea and others.. Start it and they will come. Joseph.

Jonny, Try HERE for some ideas....... our main site

Yvonne, Check out the suggestions at our home site HERE for starting a group.

Neon, I fail to understand your point here to Dutch. I quote you from June of 2011 "Quoting the bible to prove an argument is true is not critical thinking. It's circular logic." Joseph PS And it seems to me you are the one who first quoted the Bible here in this thread. Perhaps we are all cherry pickers?

Welcome Houston, So happy you finally were able to get registered and post. I think there is much truth in what you say. Small groups are most effective and it does seem best to leave old religious system church dogma and doctrine to those who are not interested in progressing into the 21st century. I don't exactly understand your use of the coined phrase "a Christianity without beliefs" but would be interested in hearing exactly what that means .Perhaps a thread in Progressive Christianity area or in the debate and dialog area if you want to include all ( PC's and all others) in the discussion would be good to start. Joseph

Neon, He also doesn't say its not with a specific type of prayer and he might have known their intent and therefore called them hypocrites. Jesus prayed in front of his diciples also so i would suggest it is intent that matters rather than making it a law for oneself or to condemn others whom we are not aware of their intent. He did not condemn them for praying in the open, he said they already had their reward. I wouldn't say his words were so clear to draw a black and white line just because of one interpretation of what he might have meant. Just my own thoughts for consideration, Joseph

Hi Houston, Excellent idea. There are of course others who do a similar practice and it seems to be catching on. Here is a thread by member PantaRhea who authored this thread on his neighborhood meetings. He also had a blog you might be interested in HERE. Joseph

Thanks Yvonne & Paul, Moved conversation from post 48 on that was a bit off topic to new thread "Praying in Public to keep this thread on topic with OP ... JosephM (as Moderator)

Raven, I think you bring up some good and valid reasons why some people do pray in public. However, i don't see any condescending attitude in some of the other peoples comments. Perhaps they were merely bringing up specifics that they have observed and don't understand what that group (such as the specific group mentioned but not all) hope to accomplish by such a dramatic public display as described in the restaurant. Also i don't think anyone here in their post(s) is saying that "prayer/God etc are simply archaic, backwards, without meaning" . I don't think there was anything personal in the posts other than poster observations / opinions as it seems the opinion of some is that prayer as instructed by Jesus should be more private than public. As halinsalem, I am not offended by other peoples reasons or the ways other people practice or for that matter do not practice their faith by prayer whether public or private. I am not harmed by either. Joseph

Sometimes i pray in public when others are present that expect it so as not give to give offence to them or provide a stumbling block for them. Otherwise i do not. Joseph

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nADt0xTeDWA&feature=related

Raven, Took care of accidental vote down with my vote up... Joseph ----- someone else will have to vote up to get where you wanted it as i am only allowed 1 vote either way myself and no way to vote twice on same post Joseph

There must also be another view as i see much of what you said of Panentheism but also enabling a potential in us that sometimes defies the natural processes of the world as presently known. i personally would not rule out the supernatural from either view. Joseph

If you can 'see' whats going on before emotion takes over i recommend Norm's approach above. Its seems to me if one is aware of what is happening, it is best to choose peace over drama. But if one is so inclined to choose drama, you might as well enjoy the drama, and perhaps then both of you, as Norm said above, should pray that the other evolves . Perhaps we will discover that the one we have the most power to change is ourself and in doing so perhaps the other will change also if they are ready and so moved by our behavior. Joseph

Welcome M, I hope you will find this community beneficial to your journey. Your experience is not unlike many others here who have made this a place of refreshing. Again welcome, Joseph

Louise, I see all your past posts are intact. Perhaps your cookie just got deleted on your computer and you had to re-sign in. If your account was deleted by accident or something then those older posts would have a name that said guest_Robgil_* and your profile would have been erased. Joseph

Dutch, I would agree that people change their evaluation of the issue based on evidence but is the opinion of the church historically or otherwise really evidence? Is it good that people who count that as evidence be swayed by it? If so then what of others things they have taught or are teaching? It seems to me it is because of the influence and claims of the church system that we have been given some of the presummed justifications of this and similar issues of society. It also seems to me the undoing of teachings not by religious history but sound reasoning, rational thought, personal experience and real evidence will more effectively deal with these issues. At least it seems so, Joseph

After reading both sides of the issue, to me it is inconclusive and imo really matters very little. I have to ask myself, What is the objective here? Is it to determine whether the Christian church system once accepted same sex marriages? If so, it then raises the further questions in me, Should the church system be our guide on these issues? Do we follow men. a system, or the light that God has put within us? The real question to me regardless of purported writings perhaps is....Are we the judge of our brother that does to us no harm? Does any of us have an inside track of the will of God for another? Is it not enough for each of us to establish our own path? Should a sense of fairness and justice prevail in our civil laws and system? Considering those questions, though it may be an interesting study in history to research such an issue, it seems to me establishing whether those rites existed as reported or not should have little bearing on what direction we take as a society. Just my own view for consideration, Joseph

Dutch Outstanding. I certainly share in your joy.

Paul, As Yvonne, it sounds to me like you have a healthy philosophy and i might add are open at this point in your journey. My advice would be to continue to experience life in the light you have indicated in your post and remain open and just allow life to have its perfect work in you. No need to force the beliefs of others upon oneself. In my experience, Truth is self revealing and comes when the time is ripe. Being open but cautious seems to me to be a good place. Cheers, Joseph