JosephM

The current June 2011 Progressive Christianity.org E-bulletin "Who Was Jesus Anyway" can be found HERE

Karen, Bill and others, This conversation is amazing to me. I watched ST regularly but my memory of and fitting together of the pieces can't compare what has come out in this conversation. I haven't posted because i can't contribute anything except amazement. Thanks, Joseph

Neon, I guess my real point is i don't think debate or more talk will build bridges. There comes a time where it has been talked to death. Kind of like the fundamental Christian message you hear from the fire and brimstone preachers. The message is old and everyone has pretty well heard it and some PC's like myself are weary of it. Like Janell, I would rather not go there. Rather, it seems to me less talk and debate and more actions of kindness and love will go further to persuade others that perhaps their view was wrong. And if not, so be it. it seemed to work for me. Peace, Joseph PS. By now with 85 posts in this thread along with more in other threads the answer to THE question of the thread. by Kath. "I'd like to know how Progressive Christians feel about it" (Homosexualsity and the Progressive Christian), the answer IMO should be fairly clear. POINT 4 - By calling ourselves progressive,we mean that we are Christians who invite all people to participate in our community and worship life without insisting that they become like us in order to be acceptable (those of all sexual orientations and gender identities)

Neon, Since you ask....My personal view is in agreement with Spong. Debating it here specifically is to me "preaching to the choir" for the most part. I don't think many minds will be changed on the subject by debate. I was a fundamentalist against homosexuality and my mind wasn't changed by debate on the subject of homosexuality. What did it for me was not having either side pushed on me or told what was true or not true biblically but fellowshipping with homosexuals as an equal member of humanity and finding that ones choice of lifestyle in those matters of those i was in contact with had no bearing on love and kindness shown to others. In fact it was my conclusion that those i met were far more considerate and sensitive and thoughtful in matters of heart than many of my straight friends. To me, that speaks louder than any words or the Bible. You see, i don't need to know if one is gay or not. It is your own business. It simply makes no difference to me anymore. I guess you could say i can feel his frustration with homophobic. I want to move on as i'm sure Spong does. Joseph

As far as the original question goes, and the topic title "Homosexuality And The Progressive Christian" , it seems to me most obvious that ALL progressives here that subscribe to the 8 points are inclusive of those who practice homosexuality and THEY support gay rights to some degree. That is not to say that all of those progressives believe or think that a homosexual lifestyle is wise or considered honorable. It only means that those who identify themselves as homosexuals are welcome to participate in our community and worship life without those that are not homosexuals insisting that they become like us that are not in order to be acceptable. It also seems to me that those who may not subscribe to all 8 points and still consider themselves progressive Christians may feel it is not acceptable and an abomination to God. Those are a minority here. However, in my view, if one does believe in the Bible being accurate and God's inerrant word, it seems to me a moot point to debate those writings, as the Bible seems pretty clear to me on the issue. Yet since, i do not subscribe to the Bible as God's word to us, and the few homosexuals i know personally are very kind, compassionate, and caring individuals, i am of the opinion that they are no less acceptable to God than i who am called straight. Having expressed that as my 2 cents, i retire from this long and often repeated thread topic that seems always to be filled with posts that to me always brings me to the same conclusion. Joseph

The current E-bulletin for April "Revisiting Easter Week" with articles by Fred Plumer, TCPC president and Bishop Spong can be viewed HERE. Joseph

Derek, I have never read the Dhammapada before and i find such a pleasant spirit and beauty in them that brings on a wonderful undescribable feeling in the reading of the words. Joseph

Hi Karen, Being somewhat of a reader of Tolle's work, i personally didn't find any contradictions in his teachings versus what i read here. When it says you are what you think, i don't believe they are saying that this is the essence of who you are. It seems to me that the writings here are saying that what you think make up your perceived reality of the world and who you are in that world. Later i think in the end we find it is temporal in nature so it can't be absolute reality. In Buddhism, it seems to me that through watching our thoughts (thinking) that we normally identify with, we in time recognize that they are impersonal and conditioned. They do make our world and ultimately when we let them go, we go beyond them to find our real (or more permanent ) identity. This, in Christianity, in my view, is the process of dying to the old nature and coming alive to our true nature in Christ which is beyond thought. Also alluded to as a new world with old things passing away by Paul. "So if any one be in Christ, he is a new creation; the old things have passed away; behold all things have become new: ... Just my own personal subjective view and of course not to be mistaken to be authoritative, Joseph

Tariki, This is interesting. It will take me some time to absorb before i can comment but it seems to speak well. Joseph

To All, For brevity sake in reading threads and to save unnecessary use of computer disc storage space, often you will find it is beneficial for the forum and not necessary to quote an entire post that is long (or short for that matter) if it can be viewed immediately above your post. Using the add reply button rather than reply when appropriate will both save reading space and storage which makes reading threads faster and more efficient. Also if you are replying just to one paragraph that is not immediately above, it would be helpful to include in your reply only that paragraph applicable to your response. I realize it is easier just to click the reply button to copy the whole post but it certainly is not beneficial for those printing or reading complete threads and at this time our disc space is running low. Your cooperation is appreciated. Joseph

The current MARCH 2011 e-bulletin from TCPC.org The Afterlife, Heaven or Hell can be found here.... Joseph

The January 2011 article "How Far are We Willing to Go?" by fred Plumer, TCPC president can be found HERE. AND..... The February 2011 E- Bulletin "Can There Be a Big Tent for Christianity?" Reflections on the Emerging Church and the Big Tent Christianity Conference in Phoenix, AZ by Fred Plumer, TCPC president. can be found HERE. Joseph

The December 2010 E-bulletin containing the article "Find The Light Within" and "A Magical Christmas" By: Fred Plumer,TCPC President can be viewed HERE...

Kath, You can go to our main site here to look up progressive churches that support the 8 points which includes to be inclusive of gays. Here PS No log-in is required to use the search function for churches on the right side of page or other areas of the site for that matter. Joseph

Hi Kath, Point 4 of the 8 points pretty well covers it but if you use the search function, you will find many discussions concerning homosexuallity or you can continue this one if you like. It has been a well discussed subject here. Joseph

Dutch, That's what you get when you live by a mile high city. Stop down sometime and visit us when you get tired of the cold. Joseph

Finishing packing for a Florida winter. Be on the road for 2 days heading south. See you all then from a new location to catch up on all the interesting posts. Joseph

Run here... There.... Everywhere.... Stop... Reflect.... Rest.

The October 2010 E-bulletin containing the article "Aren't We All Christians?" By: Fred Plumer,TCPC President can be viewed HERE. Also the results of a survey and What's next for TCPC can be found HERE. Joseph

That is wonderful news Marsha, Also so glad you got a different twist on the second coming message. It seems to me to make much more sense that way. Joseph

Marsha, I had the same initial experience some years ago with ACIM. I seemed to always be looking for something to disagree with so i also shrugged it off. Now when i read it, i find in it and other manuscripts things i can agree with and let that which i can't receive just pass. There seems to me much to be gleamed by looking for the positive in ACIM and for that matter in all inspired writings and rather than disagreeing with that which appears in error to allow it to pass pre-adventure i might remain open to those things. I have found when i was ready some of those things i once perceived as error were only because of misperceptions i held on to. My granddaughter wanted to send some happy faces in my message and type her name,.,,,, so i will suffer her for now.... rachel Joseph

Marsha, It certainly is difficult to leave a congregation. I have personally found many wonderful people in all the churches i have attended. Unfortunately it grieved my spirit to sit through services time after time with the same fundamental message that just didn't fit right with me. And most of all not being able to share the things that i felt were being revealed to me by the spirit without being shunned as 'backslid-den'. Anyway, those days are past and many have remained close friends and i am now able to attend any church or place of worship on a temporary basis with love and compassion for all and respect their right to believe as they choose. Its so wonderful to have the perspective of more women here. Look forward to reading more of your posts. Joseph

The current TCPC.org e-bulletin "The Need for New Language within Progressive Christian Faith Communities" and "Words Do Matter" By: Fred Plumer, TCPC President for Sept 2010 can be found here.... Joseph

The current August 2010 E-Bulletin Leaving Christianity for Real Faith? A Response to Anne Rice's Decision to "Quit Christianity" by Fred Pumer, president TCPC can be found here..