JosephM

Welcome Amy, Quite a few here have also made the 'rounds' and found their way back to where they started but of course with a different perspective than they had in the past. It seems to me that is what it sometimes takes to get through the chaff to the real meat. May Peace, Joy and Love be a mutual food we can share here. Joseph

Soma, It seems to me that obstructions is a good analogy. Some obstructions might be such things as excessive thought, strongly held viewpoints and opinions and deep seeded conditioned beliefs. God to me, speaks "in the now" from what might appear as the subtle silence of the thinking mind and all those things mentioned can be obstructions that affect the clarity in which we 'hear'. Joseph

PS It seems to me that God is always speaking in all things great and small but it is not as the speaking of men/women but as Mother Teresa is quoted saying "speaking from the silence of the heart". As humans our problem seems to be in understanding the difference. Joseph

Hi Keith, Just as Life, Creation or nature speaks to us in ways sometimes difficult to describe , i think God speaks to us through and with all things. Not necessarily in a particular language of voice but more-so as a 'knowing' more aligned with a 'feeling' than learned kinowledge but nevertheless translated through a connection with our thoughts and within the conditioned limits of our vocabulary so that it may appear as an audible voice within our head. Since there is such a multitude of thoughts that constantly form within us, it seems that it would be quite easy to mistake conditioned thoughts from those that are unconditioned or pure. However, in my experience, there are moments of clarity where doubt does not exist that severs the line of separation between each of us as individuals and 'All that Is' in which i would say God speaks. I think many believers hear different things because of confusion with their prior conditioning . In my experience, Ego and God cannot be present at the same moment as the one is filled with a myriad of beliefs while the other is absent of all beliefs. Just my own answer and thoughts to your question. Joseph

Hi Paul, I think that makes an interesting way to present the progression of thought concerning the mystery of God and its relation to world view, history , description, etc. Joseph

Divinejoy, It seems to me that most progressive Christians would not object in the least to whatever label you might choose to identify yourself with. In my experience here, it appears to me that many of the other members here are familiar with more than one religious tradition and have found great insight by studying and discussing them. Our main organization defines PC in general as " an open, intelligent and collaborate approach to the Christian tradition and the life and teachings of Jesus that create pathways into an authentic and relevant religious experience." Essentially , we embrace pluralism and the 8 points of Progressive Christianity. Personally i have found nothing in the Sufi thread teachings referenced that would be outside the generalities of the 8 points of PC. I think you fit in quite well and your insights from your experience with the religions you have indicated you have studied and/or practiced would be highly valued in any discussions here. I look forward to and welcome you and your contributions. Joseph

Divine joy, Thanks for bringing this thread back to my attention. I re-read the link and find it most refreshing. I think most here will find some value in the Sufi teachings but i do not know if any actually label themselves as a Christian Sufi. Joseph

System Software Update now complete. Joseph

Pablo, Studying different religions seems to me to go along way in promoting understanding and discovering many commonalities in religions. In my view, It would certainly be a plus if school curriculum presented an unbiased education of both the history and basic core teachings of different religions. I do believe it would be a plus and contribute to a more peaceful world. I do think such concepts will gain momentum as views become more progressive within religions. Joseph

Welcome Pablo, Perhaps this movement you speak of will indeed take this to the next level , so to speak, each one in their own order.and at their own speed. Hope you find this site a blessing to your soul. Joseph

Our system software is being updated sometime within the next 8 days to IPB's latest released revision 3.4.2. Please notify me if you notice any new problems as a result of the changes. JosephM (as Admin)

Pete, If you decide to stay i would not recommend continuing complaining. In my opinion, if you have no official position or office within to influence a change, or help another who does that feels similarly , it seems to me best to leave and state your reasons. Continued complaining in my view is not healthy for either side. Perhaps we can only do what we are empowered to do by working constructively together with others who are like or open-minded to effect change.as a group. Otherwise it seems best to me to move on to a church where these issues are no longer an issue and allow attrition from the Anglican church as people move on to a more progressive church to dictate necessary change or collapse as the case may be.. Good luck with whatever you decide, Joseph

Hi Pete, I think each of us has in a sense our own calling with associated talents. For some it is best to leave and move on while others are more effective while working from within for change. There is no black and white answer as we are all different and diverse in our experiences. To me membership status in a church is unimportant but perhaps not so with the Anglican church. Sometimes removing ones name from the role sends a message to leadership. When enough have done so, perhaps leadership will wake up to that reality. In summary, each of us has our own path and perhaps you must follow the one that brings you the most peace. Your friend, Joseph

Daniel, Love your idea of "acts of kindness and works of goodness" in our everyday life. There seems to me no need for us to wait on the 'other'. We can start anytime and perhaps may find it contagious. If we want friends, perhaps it is best to first show ourselves friendly? Someone once said "Change always starts with ourselves" Joseph

Sorry Paul. Typo error on my part and also poor proof reading. Should have read "day to day management of this site". No pun was intended. Joseph

I am pleased to announce the appointment of PaulS as a global moderator for this forum. Paul has been with us since August 2011 as an active participating member and current site supporter. As many others here, he came out from an emotionally painful fundamentalist background whose doctrine and dogma he could no longer accept and has continued his personal journey of exploration among us. Paul understands the importance of respectful conversation to our PC community and encouragement to others who have had similar past experiences to find their own way in meaningful discussions among us. He is willing to share some of his time and talents in the day to gay management of this site as he fulfill the responsibilities of a moderator and member of the forum operating team in line with our mission. While we are all human and occasionally subject to push the boundaries of respectful conversation and etiquette, i ask all to cooperate with Paul's instructions in the administration of his duties. JosephM (as Administrator)

There is an urge or inclination and then there is an action. In society these things need not be in agreement so that one can exist without violating the norms of society and reaping its wrath. In my experience throughout life, many have indicated to me that they have had an inclination mostly temporarily but a few on a more permanent basis that would do some harm to another. Who can really say whether that is natural or not? It is enough for me to say it exists. While science and society can and does determine their own definitions and rules to justify or condemn, it seems to me, if there is a built in inclination for sexual attraction of male for male and female for female as has been determined then there is a good chance that no matter how repulsive to us , there is most likely a built in inclination for some adults to children (pedophiles) just as there is for those with what some might consider fetishes. I am of the persuasion at this time, through my own experiences in this life that in many cases we are born with some pre-existent fetishes (which now number in the thousands) for reasons i cannot say. While some have the potential for harm, others do not but i believe they are found as dispositions in small children previously unexposed to such things. The point i am making is that while it is societies job to determine what is harmful and what is not, what it considers normal and what it considers not, and to protect its interests from harm, and there are differing professional opinions available, there is no scientific proof as of yet that pedophile inclinations are not hard or soft-wired in. Possibly even the same as those we might now consider in those of other sexual attractions that in societies conclusion do no harm. I am with Dutch on waiting for more information and with Paul on being open to understanding. Joseph

Dutch, I liked the way you put your entire last post together . My only further comment is. i, in a sense, see nothing "wrong" or "less than it could be" at the moment. It appears to me that for each deed that is sowed there is a reaping regardless of forgiveness so that Creation itself is not mocked in its apparent evolution. I see justice as self regulating and built into the created , howbeit, it is often unseen with the naked eyes. Forgiveness to me is nothing more than unconditional acceptance of creation at this moment "as it is". Change is manifested and comes out of that state of acceptance where things are seen more clearly. Thanks for your last post. it was meaningful to me. Joseph.

Dutch, i think forgiveness is a state of being, a state of acceptance of other and self. It seems to me that the recorded message of Jesus was that you are forgiven as you forgive.... measured as you measure,,,, judged as you judge. The point being that in essence when you forgive another you are in essence actually forgiving yourself because it is you that placed any perceived need for forgiveness by your own judgments, measures and self made laws. To ignore forgiveness, in my view, relates to the metaphor of eating from the tree of good and evil which leads to death. I do not see Jesus;s message of forgiveness as an implication of unequal power. Forgiveness to me is associated with humbleness rather than arrogance. It seems to me that forgiveness is primarily for the benefit and because of the need of the forgiver who must do so , so that he/she can forgive them-self. God (the uncreated) has in my view, no need for forgiveness.. I agree with you that in reality there is nothing to forgive where there is no harm and would add no need even if harm were done.. However, perhaps to many who are lost in the thinking mind that continues to measure and make conditioned judgments of others, an invisible veil/ barrier is created that separates them in mind from the Divine. Forgiveness is then the key to open communications, so to speak, with the Divine and to the freedom and liberty of Life that is in Christ. Just some thoughts to consider, Joseph

I think Paul makes a valid point. Joseph

On forgiveness.... It seems to me that the spirit of forgiveness is needed not that there is really something to forgive in the other but rather that the written and unwritten laws many of us carry in our hearts (conscience) require such to be able to forgive ourselves when we violate the laws we have made for ourselves and others. In my view , it is best to walk in the spirit of unconditional forgiveness even when no offence has been committed.to require such. This gives us the confidence we need to 'in a sense' to approach God. (Not that there is really anywhere one needs to go to make that approach) Joseph

Hi skyseeker, My thoughts on your verse choice..... To me, i find from the writings that "the letter" refers to the letter of the law. From my readings i find that even Jesus himself did not live by the letter of the law. ( He worked on the Sabbath among other things) For me , trying to live by a bunch of laws is destined for a life of death because human nature itself is contrary to written laws. (When late or in a hurry, for convenience, we violate the speed limit is just one of many examples) If we hold in our heart to the law as just and perfect, when we violate it, it seems to me that guilt and condemnation arises whether consciously or unconsciously and we lose the confidence necessary to approach the Divine that is within all. In essence condemnation eventually overtakes us and inhibits the life that is in Christ (as to be anointed or being smeared together with God) Now to me, the spirit of the law says that "ALL things are lawful to me, but all things are not expedient". All things are lawful but i must be careful not to be brought under the power of any act. In this space of spirit (Christ, an anointing) , there is life , liberty and total forgiveness of others and oneself. This is living not by the letters of a book or any book of text but rather by the anointing which we realize has always been with us and by which we experience life and are taught and manifest the gifts of the spirit being love, joy, peace, patience, etc. Against such an anointing their is no law. Just one view to consider, joseph

Imeaganfox's IP is on a banned spam forum's list from the Philippines and will not be responding. as their account is now deleted. JosephM (as Admin)

BillM , Know that you are always welcome, accepted and appreciated here no matter what personal disagreement you may have or think you have with any individual view or your interpretation of that view or of this forum, Love in Christ, your friend , Joseph.

Monty, I use a spell checker that is integral to my Google chrome browser that works in my reply window. One can also paste from a utility or word processor that has its own spellchecker. I think Internet explorer also has an add on spellchecker that will work in our reply window but i don;t remember for sure as i don't use IE. Joseph PS . Yes IE does have an add on spell checker but it is not automatic and has to be invoked on the toolbar to start and stop it. Just tried it.