JosephM

George, That is correct. This tread is not the place . I have sent you a PM. If you have a complaint you are free to make it in the complaints section or discuss the issue by PM. JosephM (as Admin)

It was not deleted but was unapproved so it is visible to moderators only. You will receive a PM explaining. Joseph

Welcome stopman, Glad you found us and i hope you find our community a useful resource for sorting out your theology and as a help in gaining solid footing on your individual journey. Again welcome and feel free to join or start a conversation. Joseph

Donald, I would certainly agree with you that "acceptance of the LGBT" may be "found in the desperation (by some) that THEM will surge into US and become indistinguishable." And while i don't see how as your father says same sex marriage "It would cheapen his marriage". I think that same sex marriage, while it may be opposed for the reasons you state by some is not applicable to all. (bold inserted by me in quote) In my view, we are a diverse society with many wishing to identify using words or labels differently as a means to define themselves or institutions to give meaning to such words rather than to separate. In short we want to distinguish between things , not to make our self separate from the other but to communicate and celebrate effectively our differences and diversity . One identifies as a Buddhist and one as a Christian and one as a Muslim but it need not be to make one superior over the other. One as Italian, one as Irish, one as Black and one as White, etc., and it need not be for "loss of power and arrogance over others" as you might be inferring. Gay rights is in my view a worthy cause for progressives to work toward so that there is not favoritism or prejudice of one over the other and there is mutual respect for any differences. This can be done in my view without a forced change in definitions. If marriage speaks to society in general as an institution between a man and a women than perhaps we can have another word that speaks to one between a man and a man or a woman and a woman that defines the difference without the prejudices. I do not feel inferior nor superior for being married to a woman, nor being of Italian decent, nor being called a Christian rather than using the same term for every religion in the name of making us indistinguishable from each other. Just one view to consider, Joseph

t But perhaps i am not saying 'Look at the incredibly diversity of life on this planet! How can there not be a God who created it all?' Perhaps what i am saying is irregardless of what Life looks like, existence IS, and needs no other proof to be and that itself and whatever that entails is God. Further definitions in my view, only cloud the issue. Perhaps one will find that God, Creation, Reality, is One. Joseph

Don, Thanks for the wonderful synopsis covering a variety of issues. Enjoyed it. Only a comment on one item.... While i believe i know what you mean by that statement, for me existence itself is concrete evidence of God. In the respect that as you say, God is All that is or "God IS Everything, including me (and everyone else). I'm not made by God, I am made of God", ALL that i see is as concrete evidence of God. Of course it is all subjectively perceived and as a sentient being, cannot be otherwise. Thanks again, Joseph

To the question fact or fiction, while a historical study seems to shed some light for some or many individuals, It seems to me that we may never know and perhaps it is more important that we examine or apply teachings and use what makes sense and works for us when applied diligently. Joseph PS Here is a past related thread on this forum that may be of interest. Jesus Real or Myth, What does the evidence show?,

Myself, i am not so sure that Christianity even as a historical religion is "supposed to be rooted in a person", even though many denominations might say so. I personally see it more rooted in Christ as exemplified in the reported historical Jesus and also in many of the first followers called "followers of the Way" and others. I believe Jesus really existed but do not find that belief as important as the teachings. It seems to me that to be a follower of the teachings of Jesus or to find an approach to God through the teachings of Jesus is not the same as rooted in the person Jesus. Jesus himself is recorded saying that his teachings were not his own and the words he spoke were given to him by the Father. He took no credit so i would say that Christ (from which we derive the word Christianity) is to be rooted in God rather than the historical person Jesus who is only one of many such teachers . But of course, that is only my view and it seems people feel more comfortable connecting to a person or forming a religion rooted in a person.. BTW Thanks for the interesting link Bill Joseph

Please follow Dutch's guidelines as he spelled out for this topic as relates to culture changes. If you have any positive proposals that are culture related to help reduce mass killings please post them otherwise please refrain from further posting.. JosephM (as Moderator)

Brent, There were some wonderful testimonies of readers of the Urantia in that video which led me to read within the book a bit further. It seems to me from reading further to be an amazing book and imo most appealing to intellectuals or those looking for intellectual answers regardless if one deems the book supernatural revelation or not. If ones seeks answers to questions i think from what little additional i have read, the Urantia papers does a most excellent job of such. Perhaps even more accurate or believable than the Bible as it exists today. As in most all religions it embraces love and noble deeds, truths from all religions and seeks to answer in detail in line with science and a more present known time, the deep questions of life. Of that, i think perhaps it does a great job. But it seems to me if one seeks God, rather than the intellectual knowledge and concepts of another lengthy book of answers, which is a more direct approach, i believe all the questions disappear so that there is no need for such answers to realize that which is really beyond the words and their meanings anyway. For myself I would perfer a continued experience over such an intellectual book of answers but that is my own personal view. As Derek, i am not looking for another book. .Joseph

johnnyb, I read a synopsis of the plot only and found it most interesting and challenging. I would be interested in seeing the movie. Thanks for mentioning it. Joseph

All of these things have been previously discussed in the previous thread on guns and gun control which was closed. I am closing this thread as this topic has again turned into such an issue. In my view, It has been discussed in enough detail for a progressive Christainity site which i hope to keep focused more on issues more clearly related to our mission and such topics more clearly related to religious issues, spiritual writings, theology, individual spiritual journeys and the like, There are other sites more appropriate for those wishing to continue to discuss or debate such hot issues as guns and gun control in more detail than has already been done here. Thanks for your understanding and cooperation JosephM (as Admin)

skyseeker, While such a family might and does work to some degree in various cultures with some possible inherent social problems....... within the American culture as it exists today,...... it would in my opinion, not work well and create a nightmare for our present system of laws, morals, and governing organization structure. The idea i think exists and works in more primitive societies as you have mentioned but not normally as relates to our idea of fairness in relationships. That is not to say that it may not be appropriate for highly advanced societies where consciousness has risen beyond dominating emotions of greed, lust, jealousy, anger, pride, etc. In short, in my view, there may be a day when such an idea may work well. Joseph

Welcome boundsacrifice, I think you will find you are in similar country and i hope you find this site encouraging and beneficial to your journey. Joseph

Raven, So nice to hear such joyful news. Wishing you the best and a continued loving relationship that expresses the Christ within you. Joseph

Welcome skyseeker, I think your points are well made concerning that writing.. Joseph

Kay, I am certain it is possible as many have found already. One of the most powerful Christian writings i have read on that reads.... "For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ. There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus." (Gal 3,27-28 KJV) Joseph PS even other religious writings like the TAO infer... (male and female) They are understood to simply be two sides of the same coin: one could not exist without the other, and it is their “dance” which gives birth to the Five Elements , which in their various combinations produce the Ten Thousand Things, i.e. everything arising within the fields of our perception.

Welcome Kay, Thanks for the introduction. You are not alone in your quest. Joseph

For me, Ideas or mental concepts do not lift my bridge. I cannot say what lifts my bridge, only a sense that it is lifted and without a sense of why.

Such is also my experience. It seems to me that it is only the lack of awareness that we have always been and are presently in that love that makes us think that we need justification to make it so. A simple experience of that love can confirm this and become a life changing event yet one can also give it up to the traditions of men which tells us it must be earned which in my view, serves only to feed ego and put a veil between that awareness and the Truth. Joseph

It seems to me that there doesn't exist a person including Jesus that can write a complete list of moral values to be taken literally that are black and white and will be valid for every person regardless of occupation or position in life under all circumstances. Of couse , i could be wrong...but i don't think so. Joseph

It seems to me best not to second guess based on an occasion in the past and if he is a friend but you suspect it might be so, ask him about it to remove any doubt. If that is what they are advising him , ask him what he thinks about it. Perhaps he will share and ask your advice? If not, perhaps it is best to allow him to follow his own path and learn for himself? I believe there is a spirit wiser than ourselves that is part of us all. Joseph

Hi Neon, i certainly am not here to justify actions whether committed by Hiltler or ourselves or allies. My only point was i don't think that "do no violence" means to do nothing in the face of a real threat. Also there is a letter of the law and a spirit of the law. But this is a book discussion area and i have nothing here to debate with you.... only expressing my opinion that Tolstoy 's interpretation is also extreme and in my view impractical as relates to living life here on earth at this present time. Also, it is my opinion that Jesus's words had more to do with the spirit of things than the literalistic fleshly interpretation Leo Tolstoy takes in his book. But if you feel different, that is fine with me as i have no argument with you or your view, joseph

Further more, it seems to me that non-violence is deeper than just outward acts. it would be difficult to accept the literalist view of Jesus's teaching. (quoted from another site) Does Jesus' teaching that we should turn the other cheek and love our enemies mean that it is always wrong to go to war? Should the world have turned the other cheek to Hitler and tried to love him into surrender? When Osama Ben Laden ordered the attack on the World Trade Center, should the U.S. have responded by sending him the Sears Tower as well? Or does Jesus allow a place for both loving our enemies and yet, in certain situations, using force to restrain life-threatening wickedness? Perhaps things can be done in the spirit of non-violence and exhausting other means while not keeping the letter but more the spirit of his teachings. When the soldiers came to Jueus in Luke 3-14 while he was preaching on the kingdom and asked "And the soldiers likewise demanded of him, saying, And what shall we do? And he said unto them, Do violence to no man, neither accuse any falsely; and be content with your wages." Neither did he tell them to get rid of their weapons or to change jobs but rather to do no intentional violence. I think that is the spirit of what he was saying. The word violence includes "intention" . To me, self-defense or defense is not considered "intention" to do harm but rather an act done in the spirit of protection.or preservation of life. Joseph

Derek, I agree with your conclusion. The one is done through peace and the other through resistance and struggle.