JosephM

Could you detail more of what you have in mind for the moderator team to consider? Joseph

Thanks for the article Stanley.

What is there to fear? People will as in the past continue to interpret as they will. Is Christianity as Jesus taught a way of life or a religion? Does Love as Jesus taught require a label that is to be feared it will be rejected? (snip) Is God so knowable to you that you would limit God to the definition of "the one supreme being" as if by those mere vowels and consonants you now know or have an understanding of God? Was Jesus really more than a man as we are? If so then what would living his his life as he did prove to us? I think Christianity must change or die but irregardless Christ ( as in the annointing, or as in the smearing together with God's Spirit ) remains. (snip) Is that right? " that we accept the unacceptable where Christ is concerned" Who told you that? Does the God who created us expect us to believe that which we cannot? Do you have firsthand knowledge or are all here to believe that the Bible is the inerrant word of God and all things said are true? Is Jesus reported to have written anything except for something in the sand? Personally, i see no problem if you find a symbol necessary. i also see no problem if you see a symbol unnecessary. Do you have a problem with that view of mine? Are not the teachings of Jesus more important than the torture or any symbol? What makes a better being? Are we all not creations of the One. (God) ? Is the realm of heaven "separate" or 'out there' ? If so, why was Jesus's message largely the kingdom of God (Heaven) is at hand ? and when demanded when it should come it is written he answered " the kingdom of God cometh not with observation (or outward shew) for the kingdom of God is within you? (snip) Perhaps so, perhaps not? Jesus claimed an unprecedented view or understanding of Jewish scripture in his teachings that were significant enough to create a religion with its own name. I don't think a basic understanding of Progressive Christianity will show any principles that are at odds with your prayer life or anyone else s. (snip) Bishop Spong may or may not read posts in this forum. If he does it is as a guest as he has never responded or enrolled as a member. I have given some brief thought replies to your points as a member assuming you are a subscriber to his newsletter.. You are certainly welcome to join in discussions in other areas of this forum whether you are or not a subscriber. This forum is basically for Spong subscribers only to post threads and to discuss his weekly newsletters. Others may join threads here as guests. If you are a Spong subscriber you may continue to post topics in this area . if not, please use our debate and dialog section and start a related thread in that area if you wish members to respond to your thoughts. Thanks JosephM (as Admin) Regards, Joseph (member)

Back in the old days.................. My wife was Baptist and i was full gospel. To keep us all together including children, i agreed to attend her Baptist church for a year if she would give a year to mine. I did both for a while but Sundays was always Baptist. After a year it was her turn and we all settled in to the Pentecostal tradition which after she made friends she was willing to stay with until we both outgrew it. Worked out fine for both of us and of course the children are now all grown, married were exposed to both and now on their own. I do not force any beliefs or opinions on them . If they are interested they have my published books to read and if they have any questions, i am happy to address them. One is married into a Baptist family and attend regularly and the other has no label and is a free spirit. Doesn't matter much to me where i attend which is mostly nowhere except when grand-kids are performing at their church. Programming and conditioning in people runs deep and until one is ready their mind will remain closed until the time is ripe which seems to be different for each of us. Joseph

Dennis I for one am in agreement. I think it is a most wonderful thing when we share our personal story with someone else. Real personal sharing is in my view more powerful than quoting scriptures. What one wishes to call him/herself for doing so is of little consequence or carries little weight if any to me. The sharing is enough as when done at the right place at the right time with a willing audience, it can be the catalyst for a transformation in the other. It's okay with me if you want to be cranky about a word. Joseph

Welcome to the community Dennis, No, I don't think you are out of step nor from what i can gather from your post that you are all that unusual from other progressive churches. Perhaps , you will have to tell us more of exactly how you see yourself different or as George says... define evangelical. Reading through some of the threads in this section may give you a better idea of where members stand which can be very diversified. Progressive Christianity is not stagnant where one can say it is this or that and each progressive church may be at a different point in their evolution. I would recommend the pinned thread http://tcpc.ipbhost.com/index.php?/topic/2457-just-what-is-progressive-christianity-to-you/ to give you a basic flair for what Progressive Christianity is for others here. Joseph

Welcome David, Have you ever checked into ... Organization: Spiritual Journeys: A Progressive Judeo-Christian Community Address: 6201 Spruce Avenue Sacramento CA US Joseph

Reasoning to me is an abstract process and is used largely to solve useful problems that often have little to do with moral decisions. In my view, reasoning brings understanding and gives meaning rather than justification. To rationalize on the other hand is highly subjective and to me is not a legitimate application of reasoning but rather moral justification based on emotions and ego.rather than seeking to understand or gain wisdom. Personally, i don't see making excuses as a logical faculty of 'reasoning' even though it may be considered as a reason when used as a noun.. Joseph

I believe the thinking mind that reasons is nothing more than a developed ego and it does often work in some to justify its emotional responses. Yet reason also , in my view, when not necessarily applied to justifying emotions, is for many the door to that which brings us to a void that bridges us beyond itself and when let go brings us to a place of non-judgement. Could moral values be consistent from culture to culture more because of the benefits of reasoning than just social learning and innateness? I would think so because to me. reasoning gives understanding as an emotional response which weighs actions more towards a meaningful life view which in time leads us to a more benign view of life and the world. Just some thoughts, (haven't read book) Joseph.

Home is always a welcoming place. May all things go well for you Annie as we joy in your excitement of an anticipated return to your homeland. Joseph

Welcome Alamar, Glad to see you finally were able to post. We have been having a few problems with our host site lately. Thanks so much for sharing a bit about yourself and feel free to join in the discussions. Joseph

Unfortunately our forum was taken offline by a monitoring system at our host that monitors our usage of resources on an hourly basis. It showed we had exceeded our resources. There was found no overuse of resources and IPS after investigating has us back on line and apologized.... ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Hello, this is back up and running now, and we are sorry for the issues, it seems there is a bug in the monitoring system that we are looking into now. Thank you Regards, Rhett Buck Invision Power Services, Inc. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- It went off agian and i recontacted... ---------------- Rhett Buck 17 October 2012 - 05:07 PM Hello, I have cleared this again for you, and put a lock on it, so it should not happen again. Thank you again Regards, Rhett Buck Invision Power Services, Inc. ----------------- Hopefully that will be the end of the unfortunate events we have had lately... JosephM

Paul, Yes theory does mean different things to different people. Perhaps we could say that evolution is both fact and theory at least in part. Anyway, that is not the important point. If we took your position, we could apply it and abolish religion altogether because we insist it is not fact and don't want parents to teach their kids that baloney. That would in my view, be just creating another government religion Joseph George and Paul, http://atheism.about...fact_theory.htm

Paul, First i would consider evolution more a theory rather than black and white fact. Yes it is based on scientific facts as best we know but more like medicine, imperfect facts that change as science progresses and its conclusions sometimes reversed . Secondly, when you give or turn over your children 'completely' to the power of government to shape their minds in a particular way, we open ourselves, not to free thinking and diversity but to the same thing that religion has done to our children. (except now it is government programming) I believe in parents rights to choose even if i am of the opinion that that choice is not wise. Who is government to take the lead in our child's education when we have different beliefs and alternatives that still satisfy the basic requirements of educational study. A parent is the caretaker of their offspring and in my view, we thread on dangerous water when we absolve that responsibility to government. The question is ..... who decides what is fact and what is not? just some thoughts, Joseph

Paul, It seems to me, the problems with such an approach of intruding in parents rights to choose private schools that teach in-line with their own beliefs far outweighs any idea of a child abuse label we might put on it. Following such a line it wouldn't be long til we have turned full control of our children over to the the government. Anyway, that's what me thinks.... Joseph

16 days left to find 6 more site sponsor volunteers to help cover 1 months hosting expense ($20 ea) to cover us until October of 2013. Please PM me for instructions if you are willing to financially help maintain this forum. Joseph

Dennis, Welcome to the community. Most but not all all here have had the same or similar questions to work through as you have mentioned. I look forward to reading your topics and ideas on the subjects that interest you. Joseph

Welcome Kemij, Glad to hear from you and hoping you find this site is beneficial to the both of us, Thanks for sharing a bit about yourself and i also got a kick out of kaybucks statement . As she said not all churches are registered with us so good luck with your search and hoping you find another one like the UCC church you moved away from. Again welcome, joseph

Dutch, I would agree that it indeed does both. However, in my view, the Internet has a greater benefit for critical thinking, encouraging critical community and exploration than just polarization and operation in the 'real world'. This is perhaps because the scope of individuals is a much larger circle on the Internet. Those that are highly prone to polarization of course will only participate in the same on the Internet but to those who are not, i see the Internet as filling a beneficial need for individuals that can then apply those exploration results to real life situations. Without the Internet explorations, those opportunities perhaps might not have been presented. Joseph

George, I think those are excellent points by Haidt, While i do see rites raising the individual to a collective focus, it seems obvious enough to me it doesn't differentiate between whether that collective focus leads to well being or harm. Joseph

I think that is very wise. It is hard to cut ties with others especially if they are related but sometimes it is necessary for a change to take place in us. Those who we spend much time with seem to have a negative or positive impact upon us so it does seem wise to choose (where we can) our circle of exposure wisely. Inevitably we must enter into those caves briefly but hopefully only to offer rescue to others who are ready for change themselves. Joseph

Raven, I guess it certainly can be discouraging. Still, i also see so much good in the world. It is that which i focus on. I don't deny that those things exist that you mention yet I don't watch the news much because it seems to report only the negative which distorts my own subjective experience of life and reality around me. With the family of friends and acquaintances around me i am shielded from most all those negatives you mention. I will be heading to Florida again for the winter next month and the people i am surrounded by in the campground where i stay are simply wonderful and caring people. There may be some discouraging problems there yet i don't see them in that light and somehow the world i see is not riddled with the things you mention. Perhaps i am not looking for the drama of them? I know there are those who are troubled, hungry and in need in many ways in the world and i do what i can to feed them and supply their needs from my abundance when i can. Still i somehow manage not to get caught up in it all. When i did in the past, i could not see any further than they and that did neither of us any good. Perhaps in a sense, we all do create our own reality and see in others what we project from ourselves??? One of my best friends in this area has gotten to the point he sees nothing but error and corruption with country, government, business and people in general, His trust and hope is depleted and his health and family relationship has suffered from it immensely which made things even worse. His circumstances now justifies his beliefs so that we no longer see nor can come to agreement with reality. Who is right and who is wrong? It matters to him but really doesn't matter to me. The world is as it is regardless of my or his beliefs or opinions. Perhaps as Jesus said to his disciples...in effect,,,,, it is good to be 'in the world' without being caught up 'of the world'. .Anyway, be of good cheer, it has many wonderful side benefits. Joseph

Thanks for the all the responses. So far. We have 6 Site Sponsors who have pledged $20. We have 6 more opportunities open for member wishing to contribute. We will only do this once a year ( in October ) to cover the annual hosting costs of this forum which remains free to members and guests and free of commercial advertisements. Joseph

Raven, Habits, conditioning, prior programming and group expectations are difficult to shake. It seems to me most of us in my experience are for the most part unconscious creatures most of the time. Hence Jesus's words... "Father forgive them, for they know not what they do" Life is anything but simple for many. No need to get exhausted for other people being their version of 'human'. (or acting out their part of the story) Joseph

Update ...... 5 site Sponsors so far. There are 7 more openings for members to donate $20 to help support this forum through to next October left.