PaulS

Yes Rom, but the decision we make is in line with our 'morals', that is, we find our decision acceptable to our way of thinking and our values. Even if that decision seems on the face of it to be 'against' our morals (e.g. I choose to steal) it is still considered acceptable to us (hence why we made that decision) so it is actually in line with our morals (e.g. I only chose to steal so that I could feed my family).

I liked this guy's sermons a lot too. He has a very PC-way of looking at things. http://www.philipgulley.com/gracetalk-messages/

Some of my favourites that helped me see Christianity and the bible in a completely different perspective include: John Shelby Spong Marcus Borg Bart Erhman (technically a biblical scholar not a PC author) Dom Crossan.

I don't think there are any 'absolute' morals and things like do not murder, do not steal, etc may be 'good' morals to some but 'bad' morals to others (e.g. is it wrong to steal to feed your family instead of letting them starve?). Nonetheless, morals exist in every decision we make. We make our judgements based on what we think is the 'right' thing to do. So usually we make a choice that we consider 'moral'.

I wonder if that is accurate, Rom. Whilst I don't believe in 'absolute' morals I do think every person lives by morals that they find acceptable to them. These may differ widely and sometimes even be in opposition to others, but even so they are morals that that person chooses to adhere to (unless we're travelling down the 'no free will path' )

Welcome Josh, I can appreciate your desire for faith but it seems to me you are already in a pretty good place which serves you well. If it comes your way and serves you well, terrific. If not, then I hope you will be just as happy. I hope you will enjoy participating here. Cheers Paul

Welcome Hoghead1, There are a number of active threads as well as the potential to start your own. Please feel free to participate. Cheers Paul

I'll give it a shot Matt. Morality is a loaded word so I'm sure there will be plenty of discussion.

Enjoy the exploration, JoS. I too find in interesting now that I am not burdened with the 'fear of God' that was drummed into me during child and early adulthood. I think I have a much better understanding of the bible and proper biblical scholarship these days, which has helped me revisit Christianity as a worthwhile tool in life. Like you, I take inspiration from the bible but often that depends on my interpretation and how I apply it to my modern world. Cheers Paul

Hi Jack of Spades, Yes, I don't consider the teachings attributed to Jesus as 'authoritative' as in 'from' God. I think a lot of what is attributed to Jesus seems like solid ideals and a 'way' to God that maybe Jesus found meaningful, but I think we all need to find our own way. For some, taking the words of Jesus as God speaking works for them - it just doesn't for me. I'd add to this that I think Jesus was talking to Jews of his time and not to people in western countries in the two thousands. That's why Jesus offers no insight into homosexuality, gay marriage, abortion, how to solve world hunger, how to manage the multiple views and opinions in a democracy, etc. None of this was on Jesus' radar and so we have no 'authoritative' words from him about such matters. Cheers Paul

1. I don't think there is any 'deal'. Jesus seems to have a few good things to say concerning how to live a rewarding life and if we take those ideas and use them then maybe we will feel somewhat fulfilled. But I don't think everything Jesus says should be taken as Gospel (pun intended) and readers need to consider for themselves the applicability of Jesus' words (or the words attributed to Jesus anyway). 2. I try to love all but draw the line at sacrificing myself, my family, or other innocents in the name of 'love' (e.g. turning the other cheek when in fact self-defence is required, etc). 3, I think we can 'face our fears' and once we do so we can take some strength from that. Even passionate, fundamental Christians fear, then they pass their fear over to 'Jesus'. Jesus is the tool they use to calm themselves - others may use meditation, contemplation, other religions, etc. 4. I think this has to be a personal choice. Some people might feel they need to give up all and live in poverty, others may feel happy with tithing 10% of their salary. Me - I do what I can and feel comfortable with my balance most of the time. 5. I agree - evil is a pretty strong word and I often think we're too hard on ourselves considering we have so rapidly evolved in recent millenniums. I maybe quote this too often but I think these words sum up for me how we can 'resist' evil - "my choice is what I choose to do and if I'm causing no harm it shouldn't bother you your choice is who you choose to be and if your causin' no harm then you're alright with me" (Ben Harper - Burn One Down lyrics).

Welcome KitKatMatt, I come from a similar fundamental church background and dealt with the guilt trip of rejecting everything I had been indoctrinated with concerning Jesus & the bible, in my late teens/early twenties. I revisited Christianity in my 40's but only because I discovered this 'progressive Christianity' line of thought. For me, I find it a much more sensible and palatable way of viewing Jesus, the Old testament God, and the bible. I hope you enjoy participating here. Cheers Paul

Welcome The Atheist, I hope you enjoy participating here and find it beneficial to you. Cheers Paul

Yes, Soma, I think Jesus probably was simply living his experience of God. I do think that he saw God through the eyes of a Jew and subsequently probably did see God as a 'father' sitting 'out there' somewhere, but simultaneously thought that people could 'experience' what God was like/wanted by living in 'the kingdom of God' in the present time, present place. I think he meant the "I and the father are one" quote in the sense that we can experience what it is like to be God if we let go of the baggage, live as community and care for each other. I agree he doesn't seem to have talked much and what he did have to say seems to usually be in response to people asking him questions. So to that end I too think he was living an experience which captured people's interest. Perhaps when people couldn't all experience what Jesus had, then along came the theologising, and the rest they say, is history!

I think what you point our speaks volumes about human behaviour, Gunnar. I think there is often a desire to know 'the truth', to be 'right' in what we believe. Blend that with a 'community' of people with like minds and it's a difficult thing to ignore. I think that's where Christianity as an organised religion started to build its base. To me it's pretty clear that Jesus wasn't considered a Christ, or Son of God when he was alive. This tradition/view developed some decades later and I would suggest was built upon over the next hundred or so years until the word of God was 'closed' with the last book being written (who knows what else was written but didn't make the cut). Just like other notable figures such as Mohammed, these notable people are turned into 'Gods' by people over time. In any event, the way I imagine Jesus and his message suits my thoughts and I'm happy enough with them. I probably don't align with the bulk of Christianity but I kinda think too bad, they don't own Jesus I hope you enjoy things here and good luck with all your reading/learning. Cheers Paul.

Welcome Ed, I'm glad you've made your way here and I hope you enjoy participating here. Cheers Paul

Yes, welcome Gunnar. I'm over here in Mandurah, Western Australia. And you live in my 2nd favourite Aussie state - I've had a few holidays in Noosa and along the Sunshine Coast! We also have very similar stories - I was raised within the Churches of Christ denomination, also very fundamental with a literal view of the bible. I threw out the baby with the bathwater in my late teens and moved away from any notion of Christianity or belief in God, but still have parents and a sibling who are fervent believers (my sister is a missionary in Mexico). I revisited things a few years ago in my early forties (I'm 48 this year) when experiencing anxiety about money matters (I though I was facing bankruptcy which felt like letting down my wife and kids) and thankfully I learnt a new, progressive understanding of the Bible, Jesus & Christianity. I can't say I hold a belief in God today, other than maybe God is simply our life experience that we share. Like you, my wife has no interest in these things, nor does anyone in my circle of friends. Thankfully, amongst other things I found this forum in my darkest hours and have been able to share with people here. It has been wonderful therapy! I look forward to your participation here. Feel free to drop me a PM anytime too. Cheers Paul

Enjoyable thread to read thus far guys. Thanks.

Welcome Chris, I too found progressive views of Christianity liberating from a mindset I grew up with that that was pushed as absolute truth but which only left my confused and angry. I really benefited from the likes of Spong too, and many other Progressive authors. Thankfully I found this site too in my darkest hours. I hope you enjoy participating here. Cheers Paul

Welcome Kjalways, I hope you enjoy participating here. Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year. Cheers Paul

Not I, Bill.

Thanks Joseph for posting.

About 1.5 years ago I decided to go vegan, only to back it off to a more 'pescatarian' diet - i.e. I eat mainly vegetarian and some seafood. I also eat eggs and dairy (although I'd like to learn to skip dairy too). I eat this way because I think meat is less healthy and because I no longer wanted to participate in what I see as animal cruelty and exploitation. I did start out with a bit of an evangelical fervour, but have pared that back to being what I think is now a relatively normal person! Paul

Hello Martin, ...and welcome to the forum. I hope you enjoy participating here and I hope it serves you well. Cheers Paul

I certainly don't have any issue with intercessory prayer opening up the prayer to positive action, or even if it is used simply as a coping mechanism for that matter. I am dubious that anything 'external' to us will respond or 'lead us' but if it ain't hurting anybody else, does it really matter! We all have mechanisms for coping with life (including responding to the needs of others) and I think such prayer could be least of our concerns.