PaulS

Yes, it is difficult to reconcile sometimes. I grew up within fundamentalist Christianity and am working on letting all that baggage go, but I abandoned those beliefs when I was 18 and am still dealing with issues today at 47yrs! My parents are still fervent believers and my sister is a missionary (so to speak) in Mexico, so I still have it attached to my life. It helps me a little to understand that we are all creatures of our environment, upbringing, and experiences. Some of us can challenge previously held beliefs, others find that a threat to their security. Being part of a religous community offers much to people - nothing like being surrounded by a group of like-minded individuals to help us feel secure and part of a community!

1. No attendance excrept maybe for a wedding 2. Meditation & volunteering - although I don't regard either of these as a religous practice. Meditation is good for you just like eating well and getting enough sleep. Volunteering is simply my way of contributing to our community. 3. I could express them but nobody would really be all that inteersted. I don't move in religous circiles so I don't face criticism, but my circle of friends aren't particularly interested in PC either, so it's not something that often comes up.

Charles, In my opinion I don't think anybody can say with certainly just how many disciples there were and exactly who they were. I think Spong makes some very logical points about 'the 12' more about linking Jesus to the Twelve Tribes of Israel rather than a numercial fact. And with the Gospels not being written until decades and decades after Jesus' death, I don't think we can take them as gospel concerning facts like the numbers and names of disciples. The contracdictory accounts of Jusdas' death introduce doubt about accuracy also. Cheers Paul

Overcast, In short, I think if Jesus did exist he was amazingly human, just like any of us are. He may/may not have said certain things which meant a great deal to the people he was speaking to or who developed them later on (bearing in mind the gospels were written decades after Jesus' existence and more than likely not by people who ever actually met Jesus). To question any of this is proper and should not be regarded as criticism (which is how it is instantly heard by those who don't want their security rocked). Regarding the 8 points - I label myself most days as an atheist, but I feel that I fit into the 8 points and don't care that other Christians might say I can't enter their club! My interpretation of the 8 points require no 'belief' in a God. I accept that some might believe and that works for them. But to me, God or no God, I can still experience a scaredness, oneness and unity with all because after all, we are all from the same stardust! Much of what is attributed to Jesus makes sense to me as a beneficial way to live, as do many of the words of Buddha and other religous and non-religous greats. So being atheist doesn't preclude anybody from being a PC, IMO anyway. Cheers Paul

Welcome Overcast, As an atheist myself, also with a strong Christian upbringing, Progressive Christianity has really opened my eyes to a new Christianity, a Christianity that I can understand muc better than the fundamental beliefs I was raised on. I hope you enjoy it here. Cheers Paul

Hi Bobbie, I'm really glad you found this forum and am looking forward to getting to know you also. There's a wealth of material archived here from heaps of discussions which you may find very interesting and useful, but don't be afraid to step in and kick off any discussion of your own. Cheers Paul

Welcome Lucas, I'm glad you've found the forum and I hope you enjoy participating here. Btw, I am well in my part of the world - Western Australia. Cheers Paul

Sorry, I'm lost. Who's Don Caron and what is his concern? I'm not real strong on Catholic ways Peter, but if you're looking for books that may help you think less traditionally about Christianity, could I recommend Spong, Borg and Erhmann. Cheers Paul

I'll just settle for people understanding that what was written thousands of years ago, across hundred of years, by individuals from a variety of times and societal settings, are just opinion pieces and can be scrutinised against the light and understandings of 2015.

Welcome Dantottle, You've inadvertently introduced yourself on zzmel's thread instead of perhaps creating your own, but welcome all the same. I hope you enjoy what you find here and I look forward to discussion with you. I'm sure you would have some interesting experiences and takes on life after your time in Haiiti. Cheers Paul

I didn't mean hardship in a material sense but rather in the sense that one finds life 'hard'. So in that sense, salvation for them is understanding how to be at ease with life. I think that's what you were alluding to as well, Joseph.

It doesn't mean much to me because I don't think we need saving from anything. I know some people use it in the context of 'saving' them from a life of hardship by offering them the tools to live an abundant and fulfilling life - In that sense I could accept certain mind processes/beliefs as being a type of salvation for some.

I think the farmer's 'maybe' perhaps demonstrated acceptance that we humans are condemned to make choices consciously restricted to limited perspectives. So instead of making a choice based on limited perspective, perhaps the farmer knew there could be other 'choices' or ways of looking at the current situation.

Welcome Ella Jay, I'm glad you found this forum and I hope you enjoy it here. Cheers Paul

I mesh it quite simply (for me). There is no Satan, no demented spirit out to 'get you' or cause you to not connect with God. Satan, the Devil, 'Evil' are human constructs and attempts to explain why bad things happen to good people. They just do!

As I said in your other post zzmel, welcome to the forum. Incidentally, what a difference a letter can make in our communications. There is a place not far from me called Jurien WA (i.e. Jurien, Western Australia)! Maybe that's where a lot of our religious beliefs get confused - If I believed the Saviour came from Jurien WA but you mistranslated me to by saying Burien WA, generations in the future could be mistaken that the Son of God was born in America and not Australia. Of course, the various authors of the books that make up the library of the bible would never have made such mistakes.

From the other side of the world zzmel (Australia), let me welcome you to the messageboard and wish you well. I don't think anybody can tell you exactly what a 'true Christian' is. Those that started Christianity some 2000 years ago called it 'The Way' but apart from that, our knowledge is fairly limited. Certainly early Christians regarded Jesus as their Teacher/example, but the Son Of God tag and him being a personal blood sacrifice for those that believe so, developed later. And just how you got to 'Heaven' has changed alot throughout the ages. More recently, the last 100 or so years, it has been about holding the 'right' belief. Before that it was about 'trust' in God. Before that, who knows, and in the OT there isn't even any mention about getting to heaven unless God picked you (think Moses, Elijah). So those who tell you there is only one single way to get to Heaven are simply a product of their times and I don't personally think hold the answer anymore than our ancestors who may have been just as certain with some other 'way'. I too fall into the agnostic camp. I certainly can't make sense of any conditionally-loving God (i.e. believe in Jesus or he won't love you), or even imagine how one could live forever in some sort of hidden parallel universe. However, there are a lot of things I don't know/understand, so maybe an afterlife is one of them. That said, if there is a 'God' waiting on the other side, I simply cannot for the life of me imagine that he is going to hold me eternally responsible for my limited decisons and thought-process in my relatively short life (compared to all eternity) on this little blue dot. I have read some quote 'embrace the mystery' of death, and for me this works. It is mysterious, I am uncertain, one day I may find out, but I just can't imagine it being a 'bad' thing. Cheers Paul

Personally Barb, I think it probably makes you a more traditional Christian than today's fundamentalists would have you believe. Jesus never sought worship, declared himself as 'Lord', or expected people to believe he had come to die as a blood sacrifice to please God. What Jesus was about was encouraging people to live a life closer to God. Following his teachings certainly help a lot of people feel closer to God, just as many others find different ways to be closer to God. If you look to Jesus as your teacher then that makes you Christian, certainly. I hope you enjoy participating here. Paul

Sorry, nothing from me. In fact, I don't even do Lent.

Welcome FireDragon, I don't think anybody here will compel you to accept the 8 Points to participate in the forum! Essentially, as long as we respect other people and their opinions, we can all enjoy a diverse and fruitful place to discuss our thoughts and views. I hope you enjoy it here and I look forward to your participation. Cheers Paul

Thanks for trying to sort that Joseph.

I'll let Joseph look into the RSS feed thing, but in the meantime Angel, if it's of any use, I use the 'View New Content' link at the top right of this page to see if there are any new posts/discussion threads which means I don't have to browse through the website. Hope that helps some.

You raise some good points, Angel. I personally, didn't interpret the farmer parable to be symbolic of a sort of 'don't care' attitude towards his circumstances like you suggest concerning the holocaust perhaps (i.e. sit back and do nothing). I imagined the farmer probably looked after his son with the broken arm (or was it a leg?) and perhaps corralled the wild horses that he had come into possession of. I think he took action, but simply recognised that those actions may or may not be a good or a bad thing (simplistically speaking). Yes, there could be a destructive temptation to repress feelings, but again for me, I didn't read that into it. Rather at a surface level I read that these events could be either fortuitous or not, maybe. But that doesn't negate carrying on with your life and taking action you think appropriate. "This is the terrible defect of every philosophy, religion or spirituality that pursues detachment, indifference, repression of manifestations of grief or rage." But doesn't Tibetan Buddhism for instance teach detachment whilst simultaneously having a spiritual leader/representative, the Dalai Lama, that very much has political views and opinions and encourages action rather than indifference? Personally, I think the detachment points to letting go of the pain and angst that comes with things not being as you would like them, but is far from saying don't do anything about them. I'm no Buddhist though so perhaps I am off the mark. I agree with your concerns for PC if it's understandings were intended as dogma (incidentally I think they are far from that), although I would go so far as to say ANY human organisation/collection of like minds seems to run that risk of being corrupted or being sold as THE only truth. We certainly see that with many religions, including fundamental Christianity, but also within Buddhism, Islam, Hinduism, etc. I think the purpose of PC is actually to move away from that paradigm of 'right belief' and encourage open-mindedness. Thanks for your thoughts. Cheers Paul

I like that too, Rom.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OX0OARBqBp0 I liked this parable. I wonder if anyone else would like to comment on it? Cheers Paul