JosephM

There is a limit of 2 for regular members and 3 for senior members members per day. Use them as you see fit. There are different parameters such as flood control (searches) number of posts allowed per day for members and senior members and for site sponsors . Site sponsor benefits can be found here ... http://tcpc.ipbhost.com/topic/4350-help-our-annual-october-fund-raiser/ The differences for other classifications is not listed but you will know if you hit a limit such as editing time, posts etc.

Yes it just shows up once and shows someone has quoted you. Always has. Just click on unread content and you will find the rest much faster after going to the first one. It will bring you to your first unread post. If you have to many unread posts just click on forum read if you don't want to read anymore in that particular forum. Also you can go to the Activity /All Activity tab and it will show you the latest posts to earliest which makes it real easy to find the posts since you last visit.

Ellen, I don't think that point 4 being inclusive means to be yoked together. There are actions that are unacceptable to us that are perpetrated by others and it seems to me that wisdom dictates we should have compassion for them and are not to hate them , yet neither are we to allow their choices to go without consequences. For example, If a person i know is a compulsive liar i forgive them and hold no ill will against them but at the same time i would choose not to be close friends with them and take whatever communication there my be from them with a grain of salt. Behavior always speaks louder than words and we are admonished to love and forgive and be as innocent as doves but wise as serpents in our dealings with others. Mat 10:16 Inclusive means "containing (a specified element) as part of a whole". We accept and include all people as part of the whole without malice or prejudice against them excluding none yet we still choose not to yoke (join together) ourselves to those who would harm us or others. Joseph

Thread split off to "Discussing PC" as this thread is not for the purpose of discussion . It is a pinned thread for member posts to state what PC means to them so new members or visitors can get an idea of what PC means to its members. There should be no responses in this thread other than a like if you like what is posted or a thank you or welcome. Discussions wanted on any posts here should start another thread . JosephM (as Admin)

The February 2020 Monthly Discussion Board Report follows: New Members Registered: 3 Total Members 1764 Total Posts 49692 New Members rejected: 0 Banned ( manually by Admin) Auto spam reject not reported Awaiting user email validation 0 New Topics Started: 32 New Posts: 383 Personal Messages (convers) 9 Active Current Members this month 7 Guest visits averaged app 5-7 at any one time Items of Note 1 member suspended for 1 week Joseph Mattioli Discussion Board Admin/Moderator/Forum Site Owner

I'm not trying to say that there are not other possible interpretations. Only that Bart doesn't know what Jesus was really teaching from the recorded writings. Personally i don't buy into what to me seems obvious to most Christians reading the NT because i don't buy into its accuracy as recorded. In the area of dogma and doctrine it has been corrupted, so to second guess what was meant of corrupted and mistranslated writings to me is futile except to prove there is corruption. I also don't buy into a physical place of heaven or hell as i mentioned because nothing physical by nature including this earth is eternal. The physical is subject to decay and change.

Paul, While i do not believe in an eternal physical place called heaven and hell myself, I don't think Bart knows what Jesus believed or really taught . IF we believe the literal translated recorded words in Mathew, Mark and Luke that Jesus spoke then he did teach of hell as a place of eternal torment both in words and parables. Matt 25:46, Mark 9:45, Matt 23:33, Luke 16:20-26 and more. I can present a good argument on how heaven and hell can't be physical places since nothing that is physical is eternal but if i accept the words of the Bible as written as innerant then i would have to admit Jesus taught about heaven and hell. Sheol which appears in the KJV OT 62 times is translated hell 31 times and the grave 31 times. Of course one could argue that the translation is in error as the Hebrew word Sheol refers to the grave or the abode of the dead ( Psalms 88:3 Psalms 88:5 ) There are 23 occurrences of the word hell in the KJV NT but of course translations can be challenged as the Greeks had 3 words that were translated as hell, hades, tartarosas, and Gehenna. However Gehenna which has 12 occurrences translated to hell ..... "Gehenna is a transliteration of an Old Testament Hebrew expression, “the valley of Hinnom,” which denoted a ravine on the southern side of Jerusalem. This valley was used by certain apostate Hebrews as a place where their children were offered into the fiery arms of the pagan god Molech (2 Chron. 28:3; 33:6). It was thus an area of suffering and weeping. When Josiah launched his reformation, this valley was regarded as a site of heinous abomination (2 Kgs. 23:10-14). It finally became the garbage depository of Jerusalem where there was a continual burning of refuse. Gehenna, being associated with these ideas, appropriately served as a symbolic designation for the place of suffering to which evil persons will be consigned following the Lord’s return. " Employing several examples of hyperbole (for the sake of emphasis), Christ stressed that it would be better to proceed through life with great loss (e.g. deprived of an eye or a limb), rather than having Gehenna as a final destiny (Mt. 5:29-30; cf. 18:9; Mk. 9:43-47) So called Biblical scholars can say what they want to believe or want people to believe but to me if you are using and believe the KJV Bible as it exists as your source, reading all occurrences in context it leaves little doubt that Jesus taught about hell as a place of punishment/ torment.

Good point. I think the important thing is to wish the best for everyone that they as you say ... might grow in grace, faith and love/compassion for others. (even IF the Bible taught differently which it doesn't)

Hello Technician and welcome to the forum. I think you are on the right track putting aside personal judgement. It goes along way toward keeping ourselves guilt free as when we judge another we are in reality judging ourselves. Progressive Christianity is an inclusive religion without traditional dogma and doctrine of the church system. It's a journey and i think you might find a lot of interesting posts from members concerning it Here - >>>>>> Joseph

Paul, On suffering, I agree in a sense that we are indeed our own rewarder and punisher yet see God as that potential that causes it to be so. I believe Jesus's teachings confirm that along with my own experience. Burl, Saw the series/movie Lonesome Dove, enjoyed it immensely and my wife did also. People say the book is always better but i am easy to please without the book.

Pipiripi, Which book or books did God tell people to write down? The Old Testament, The New Testament (which version or translation is most accurate KJV, ASV, AB, ESV, NAS, etc ), The Pauli Cannon, The Bhagavad Gita, The Dao de Jing, The Vedas, The Quran, The Book of Shadows, etc.. Each religion claims its own sacred book and believes it is truth.

Actually, I haven't even averaged 1 book a year. for at least the last 30 years. I am not very well read , fiction or otherwise but i do google the internet for news and curiosity items daily. I prefer to learn from my mistakes and real life experiences. Fiction books especially doesn't interest me, though i have been known to binge watch a few fiction TV series on Netflix and Prime. The series Nikita being the latest one. Yes art link later is from my era. 🙂

Yes it begs the question why because of a particular understanding Bart may have of God or thinks religion has of God. Buddhism has no such concept of God. Karma is karma regardless how Bart tries to define it for Buddhists and you don't have to experience multiple lifetimes to see its effect. In Buddhism "Karma is a Sanskrit word from the root "Kri" to do or to make and simply means "action." It operates in the universe as the continuous chain reaction of cause and effect. It is not only confined to causation in the physical sense but also it has moral implications. "A good cause, a good effect; a bad cause a bad effect" is a common saying. In this sense karma is a moral law." This is hard to accept but i can say with some degree of certainty that one chooses the life one is now living and the condition one is born into. One also is judged by the way one judges others. God is the potential but to think that God likes or dislikes pain to exist is to error in ones thinking concerning God. Life can be compared to a movie, a drama unfolding (an evolution of consciousness) and regardless of pain, suffering or perceived death, perceived winners or losers, there is only God and only Life.

I don't think they would remain vividly in most as we begin again with a new evolving physical brain. It is what is beyond the physical where past memories are held along with tendencies that steer toward a particular genetic makeup for a new life in this or other realms. Of course, i cannot offer proof except to say i have some of these memories and other experiences of a concurrent existence in other dimensions or realms All that of course can be explained away if you are so inclined. Perhaps this may spark an interest. https://www.npr.org/2014/01/05/259886077/searching-for-science-behind-reincarnation

Not nice. I would disagree with a number of Bart's points. 1. We are here by pure accident .... In my view, there are no accidents. They are only perceived in the mind as such. Life is an intelligent balance of the whole. 2. There is no ultimate meaning .... In my view, Life itself is its own ultimate meaning. 3. I do not think suffering is caused by Karma ... Karma is real, If you want to test it out without waiting more than a lifetime for its effect just go out in public and tell everyone you meet you think they are stupid and ugly and see if your fate changes quickly. If you rather a more subtle approach, start being impolite to all your friends and see how many friends you end up with next year. Karma doesn't have to take more than one lifetime to see. Karma is essentially the sum of a persons actions deciding their fate. If Bart believes this lifetime is all he will ever see then of course karma carry over to multiple lifetimes would not be a consideration. Yet, still one can see how one generations actions indeed effects the suffering of future generations. (karma)

Pain is inevitable for sentient beings with their sense perceptions working. Suffering is not a requirement for such pain. Suffering in my view becomes present only when one is in non-acceptance of the pain or circumstances of that which IS. Pain is usually physical whereas suffering is more a mental disciple and caused by attachments to that which is non permanent. In essence things are as they are and we only suffer because we imagine it to be different. Of course that is my own experience and definition and you can quote me on that. 🙂 The other end of the continuum of suffering is happiness which is a sense of well-being, joy or contentment which is available in spite of circumstances that in most we attribute to our suffering. Happiness requires non-resistance to that which we have no control over and while often triggered by favorable circumstances does not need to rely on such .

"Every plant or animal belongs to a species. A species is a population of plants or animals that can breed to produce offspring that can then produce offspring themselves. Biologists believe that new species evolve from existing species by a process called natural selection. Here's how it works. Genes are chemical structures in the cells of the organism. The nature of the organism is determined by its genes. The organism inherits the genes from its parents. Occasionally a gene changes accidentally. That's called a mutation. The changed gene is passed on to the next generation. Most mutations are bad, but some of them make the organism more successful in its life. Organisms that inherit that favorable new gene are likely to become more abundant than others of the species." "Critics of evolution often fall back on the maxim that no one has ever seen one species split into two. While that's clearly a straw man, because most speciation takes far longer than our lifespan to occur, it's also not true. We have seen species split, and we continue to see species diverging every day." An example can be read at this site. https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/science-sushi/evolution-watching-speciation-occur-observations/

It seems to me when you say I know, you really mean 'you believe' because you read it in the Bible. It is fine if that is what you believe but how can you say you really know just because it is written in a book by men? Where is your evidence other than the circular logic to say the Bible is God's infallible word and all other books that say different are lies?

As Burl points out in his above post, a pure literal interpretation such as a day being 24 hours could even by the writings in the NT Bible indicate this is not to be taken literally. To discount science because of a literal interpretation of the Bible seems to me to be as inappropriate as discounting the Bible as an inspirational; book because of science.

Burl, I don't think i can agree with that. (The decline in Christian church attendance numbers follows Western churches adopting progressive theologies) In the US Southern Baptists are down to the lowest in 30 years and they are not in my view progressive in the least. Catholics in the US are also on the decline.. https://www.christianitytoday.com/news/2019/may/southern-baptists-acp-membership-baptism-decline-2018.html However i do agree that especially Pentacostal/charismatic churches in predominately undeveloped countries is on the rise. Sometimes education gets in the way of people's belief in the gifts of the spirit and miracles. Hence more of it is seen in those undeveloped nations. I personally believe in both the gifts of the spirit and miracles. In my view, sometimes reason and faith are at odds with each other.

Burl, Thanks for the thread. I didn't mean any offence . I guess i was just being honest and justifying my response of Trump as an answer. Probably shouldn't be in debate as it is more of a fun thing.

I think Americans are getting better educated and questioning past norms that are part of the programming of the mainline organized churches. People here are better educated and just don't buy all the doctrine and dogma. Undeveloped countries may be on the increase for opposite reasons as they are more primitive and willing to accept what they are told by missionaries. That may be a step forward from their more primitive beliefs. I realize that is just a generalization but i think their is some merit in the reasoning.

Yes Rom, That threw me off also.

Oh... We are talking about the Bible ..... King Saul

Probably Donald Trump ? National leader, 3 beautiful wives, eats fast foods, divorced 1st wife (and second), retaliates on his enemies. If this is unrelated to pc or theology discussions i will move it to the Cafe. I'll wait and see.