JosephM

Thanks Burl, In a different section of the main organization they include this note which is important but was left off the original page you referenced. Paul found it and copied in another related thread in another forum here. It reads.... "Notes: We’ve heard you and in our many conversations with our readership, Progressive Christian pastors, theologians, scholars, visionaries, and in our observations and studies, we have co-created this updated version of our 8 Points of Progressive Christianity. Progressive Christianity is inherently always evolving and progressing. Please take these lightly but seriously. They are not dogma, they are simply a starting point to establish conversations and a foundation of values and beliefs that we have observed Progressive Christians generally share. It’s ok if you don’t agree with all the words or all the parts. We support your authentic path. You can use these in your faith communities and with family and friends to talk about what it means to you to be a Progressive Christian in today’s world. Here is to always progressing!" ... and can be found here ---> https://progressivechristianity.org/the-8-points/

Thanks Paul, I missed that note when reading them. Thanks for posting as it needs to be said for proper context.

I would agree with that. It is in my view a stepping stone. Some may even bypass it entirely. (point 2)

Thanks for the clarification Burl.

Burl, No bullying here. Note it says in my view. He has expressed his opinion and i have expressed mine. No offense is meant. Pipiripi is not a newbie to forums. He is well read in the Bible i can assure you of that. I have done my research. He has bordered on attacking Thormas in a couple posts * and i am not attacking him but rather suggesting that his post is filled with dogma and doctrine of the church system and, in my view, there are what i consider false premises that prevent one from breaking free of that dogma and doctrine . There is no requirement for him to do so or change his faith.. * http://tcpc.ipbhost.com/topic/4544-im-done-with-church/?do=findComment&comment=52539 * http://tcpc.ipbhost.com/topic/4544-im-done-with-church/?do=findComment&comment=52551

I have zero problems with your wording and would fit in nicely. I also have no problems with the 8 points as worded. You seem to me to be too picky but that is your right and just my opinion. No offense meant.

Yes they are required to in California to cast all 55 votes to the popular vote winner along with 28 other states with that requirement. Others states follow precedent . The electorates are from their party and not bound but it is possible but rare that they would turn on their own party. Republicans and Democrats have their own electorate. If a Democrat wins popular vote only the Democratic electorate vote. But yes it is possible in certain states for him to cross over, just not very likely since they are chosen by the corresponding party. I was once chosen as an electorate in KY but never voted because my candidate did not win. I was chosen by the candidate because i was a major donor in the party and they trusted me. Yes the popular vote in that state is the basis for electing the president through the layer of a winning party electorate. Hope that helps

Pipiripi, For a conventional Christian to become free of such dogma and doctrine, in my view, 5 false premises of the fundamental or conventional church system must be overcome. Listed by order of importance. 1. The Bible is the Word of God 2. Jesus is God 3. The Rapture 4. Sin is sin 5. Heaven or Hell Since i am a site sponsor i would recommend this book which i authored and put the link for it here. I think it would be a great eye opener for you. It follows the writings of the Bible very closely to expose these false premises. Click here ---------> https://www.amazon.com/Throwing-Away-God-Joseph-Mattioli/dp/1553696832/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&*Version*=1&*entries*=0&link_code=hom&tag=14kcharfromindej Joseph

Sorry. Not alone. No guilt here.

With the exception of a couple states the electorate must cast their votes per the majority of people in each state. The electoral college is not a place , it is a layer/ process

“Life is 10% what happens to us and 90% how we react to it.”– Dennis P. Kimbro

Pipiripi, It is clear from your beliefs at your site that you are at odds at the least with point 2 of the 8 points. You are not to post in this particular Progressive Christianity forum. You are welcome to post in all other forums as long as you are within its posted guidelines JosephM (as Admin)

I like that part Thomas.

The American people did elect him. The electoral college is called for in the Constitution of this Republic because the framers of our Republic wanted this extra layer, rather than just providing for the direct election of the president as in pure democracies. Most of the nation’s founders were actually rather afraid of democracy. James Madison worried about what he called “factions,” which he defined as groups of citizens who have a common interest in some proposal that would either violate the rights of other citizens or would harm the nation as a whole. the Electoral College does make it possible for a candidate to win the popular vote and still not become president. But that is less a product of the Electoral College (a process, not a place) and more a product of the way states apportion electors. In every state but Maine and Nebraska, electors are awarded on a winner-take-all basis. So if a candidate wins a state by even a narrow margin, he or she wins all of the state’s electoral votes. This helps insure that a larger sections of states is treated more fairly. ie Red went to Trump by popular vote - Blue to Hillary Many people might think we are a democracy here but that is not accurate. We are a Republic. So far, a very successful Republic and while not perfect and with its problems it works well enough that people keep coming and most here still think its the greatest country in the world to live in.

I agree she did a disservice to her party with that action on national TV. I believe if you look at the video when he handed the speech to them, as is customary, he didn't shake either her hand or Mike Pence, his vice president's hand. If he shook Mike's hand and not hers that might be considered rude. Also do you expect him to shake a persons hand that just impeached you, that hates your guts, and now has vowed to continue investigating and try to impeach him again? Democrats have been investigating and threatening to impeach him from the moment he was elected. Have faith in the American people and if they don't want 4 more years of him they won't vote for him.

I call that nit-picking which is acceptable here but fails to arouse my interest or move me to even respond to each of your fault findings. Perhaps you could write the 8 points to your liking and post them here to see if others might prefer or have interest in them?

There is a hate between them. In fact you will find that people either love or hate Trump. He is not a politician and many people seem to love it. He's working in a swamp here where lip service has ruled for decades. He is holding up pretty good with the majority of News agencies being biased against him. In fact the Republican party didn't want him at first. He makes them cringe with what comes out of his mouth. He simply doesn't care what the media or democrats think. He is doing what he feels his supporters elected him for. He speaks whats on his mind like a regular person rather than trying to be presidential and use well chosen words. November will tell if the people like it or not. Based on the majority of news agencies negative reports on him you would think he doesn;'t have a chance winning in November. I think otherwise. Did you watch Nancy stand up at the end and tear his speech up on national TV?

I admit it seems that way but a man doesn't start to look for these new words until he becomes disappointed with the old in himself. He perceives the absence of uncertainty in the other or a hope of more certainty and peace perceived in the other else he would not even look. It is unhappiness or emptiness in oneself (in my opinion) that moves one on from CC and the new words one hears are a hope/promise that the words will change that. IMO words themselves carry no such power with a content person.

While i would admit Conventional Christianity beliefs often clash heavily with those of Progressives, to me, it is folly to think we can destroy this persons conventional view of religion by words. The very opposing words themselves seems to me to only strengthen the others resolve. It is by living and interacting in peace, patience and compassion in ones own beliefs that stimulate the other to become open to that which might be attributed as beneficial to the other by such beliefs.

Pipiripi, This is a Progressive Christianity site. You seem to me to be well read concerning the Bible and your definition of PC may not fit here. Please take the time to read the 8 points of PC below. Progressive Christians as a general rule do not believe the Bible is the infallible word of God nor that Christianity is the only path to God. You may not fit into the classification of Progressive Christianity here if you are not in general agreement with these 8 points. You might be more fundamentally inclined which is okay but then you will need to start threads and not post in this part of the forum but rather in Debate and Dialog section where others will most likely disagree with your posts and wish to debate them. Let me know how you stand with the 8 points ASAP. Thanks for your attention to this. JosephM ( as Admin) Updated in 2020: By calling ourselves progressive Christians, we mean we are Christians who… 1. Believe that following the path of the teacher Jesus can lead to healing and wholeness, a mystical connection to “God,” as well as an awareness and experience of not only the Sacred, but the Oneness and Unity of all life; 2. Affirm that the teachings of Jesus provide but one of many ways to experience “God,” the Sacredness, Oneness and Unity of life, and that we can draw from diverse sources of wisdom, including Earth, in our spiritual journey; 3. Seek and create community that is inclusive of ALL people, including but not limited to: Conventional Christians and questioning skeptics, Believers and agnostics, Those of all races, cultures, and nationalities Those of all sexual orientations and all gender identities, Those of all classes and abilities, Those historically marginalized, All creatures and plant life; 4. Know that the way we behave towards one another and Earth is the fullest expression of what we believe, therefore we vow to walk as Jesus might have walked in this world with radical compassion, inclusion, and bravery to confront and positively change the injustices we experience as well as those we see others experiencing; 5. Find grace in the search for understanding and believe there is more value in questioning with an open mind and open heart, than in absolutes or dogma; 6. Work toward peace and justice among all people and all life on Earth; 7. Protect and restore the integrity of our Earth and all of Creation; 8. Commit to a path of life-long learning, compassion, and selfless love on this journey toward a personally authentic and meaningful faith.

Personally i feel it did for me. I find many of his reported teachings have helped me on my journey of life toward a connection to the whole or "God". Therefor my subjective experience has no problem with this point . One could always say well some of the reported teachings may be in error and that could well be so, but it doesn't say all his reported teachings are accurate or change the point statement for me. I like this one. I have no problem with wording. The adding of all creatures and plant life in context is there not to exclude in our communities that which provides a balance for us and the earth I have no problem here with wording. IRom, I guess i don't understand how No problem with wording here and i don't believe this is dogma but rather just making a point. General and part of inclusiveness. I Can't fault wording. General and what fault can one find with this Can't see any problem with a person choosing to follow this point. Rom, I guess i fail to understand why you would have a problem with any of these points except perhaps the exact words used would not be your choice. Joseph

Rom, I'm fairly certain that no one way to word the 8 points would satisfy everyone who identifies as a progressive Christian. The main organization changes the wording as time passes. They are not the words i would personally choose but i really don't have any problems with them unless i nit-pick. The plant one needs some explanation as to what the writer had exactly in mind and if you go to the main site you might find some explanations. I'll have to check myself also. Personally, i don't consider any of them dogma. (a principle or set of principles laid down by an authority as incontrovertibly true) That should be obvious by their changing every few years.

Thomas , That is the title that Pipiripi requested in the thread on the 2nd page for you to change it to. It is evident to all that the thread was split and based on his original post from the quotation you used. His original thread he posted was appropriate there so i left it there. Please try not to be so sensitive. We all know you didn't choose the thread title. Carry on if you will with the subject matter if desired but be careful in your discussion as he is new here.

Pipiripi, Many here have come to believe quite differently on subjects such as The Book of Revelations and the Bible in general when it comes to fundamental church teachings. That's why this site is called Progressive Christianity. Progressive as in new more liberal ideas. If you read from the first post to the last you will get a feel for what PC actually is from its members which is quite different than fundamental Christianity taught by many Christian churches. You may find this site doesn't fit into your liking or perhaps it will. Also read these 8 points below to see if they are acceptable to you as the journey can be painful. Either way regardless of your personal beliefs you are welcome to participate on this site . We would be glad to have you. Updated in 2020: By calling ourselves progressive Christians, we mean we are Christians who… 1. Believe that following the path of the teacher Jesus can lead to healing and wholeness, a mystical connection to “God,” as well as an awareness and experience of not only the Sacred, but the Oneness and Unity of all life; 2. Affirm that the teachings of Jesus provide but one of many ways to experience “God,” the Sacredness, Oneness and Unity of life, and that we can draw from diverse sources of wisdom, including Earth, in our spiritual journey; 3. Seek and create community that is inclusive of ALL people, including but not limited to: Conventional Christians and questioning skeptics, Believers and agnostics, Those of all races, cultures, and nationalities Those of all sexual orientations and all gender identities, Those of all classes and abilities, Those historically marginalized, All creatures and plant life; 4. Know that the way we behave towards one another and Earth is the fullest expression of what we believe, therefore we vow to walk as Jesus might have walked in this world with radical compassion, inclusion, and bravery to confront and positively change the injustices we experience as well as those we see others experiencing; 5. Find grace in the search for understanding and believe there is more value in questioning with an open mind and open heart, than in absolutes or dogma; 6. Work toward peace and justice among all people and all life on Earth; 7. Protect and restore the integrity of our Earth and all of Creation; 8. Commit to a path of life-long learning, compassion, and selfless love on this journey toward a personally authentic and meaningful faith.

Thomas, It seems clear to me he is saying that it is because all that must be saved (have eternal life) is not complete at this time. His plan is not yet fulfilled. That is Pipiripi's belief at this time supported by his Bible studies. I would encourage him to continue his reading and studies as the journey takes time and the organized church taught fundamentals are difficult to overcome.. I am moving this thread back to PC area new thread. (End Time Prophecy in Revelations)