PaulS

Ditto!

Actually George, the worst of the stress had been the last few months working amongst uncertainty and indirection. This actually feels like a weight has been lifted. Fortunately I have a career (occupational safety & health) that is very much in demand here at the moment as there is just so much going on in mining and oil & gas. I'm very excited about what might be. And tomorrow my wife and I are taking our two boys on a one-week caravaning trip down to a little place on the south-west tip of Western Australia called Augusta for some relaxation, fishing, and simple fun. Thankyou for your thoughts. Cheers Paul

Maybe Jesus did believe in natural evil. I don't know as clearly I wasn't there. But even if he did, is it an issue?. I'm pretty comfortable accepting that not everything Jesus believed was neccessarily accurate.

Loved, just as you are.

Welcome Jen, I hope you enjoy the community here. Cheers Paul

That's fantastic Dutch! All the best and I hope you guys have a lovely holiday. Cheers Paul

Tomorrow I wake up for the first time in my life (since I was 16) as unemployed. My role was made redundant yesterday, and I have spent the last 24hrs negotiating a fair redundancy payout. So with mixed feelings I leave a company that I used to be excited about, but with 6-months severance pay to tide me over until I find/choose another opportunity. Not a bad situation really, and here a 3-week school break commenced today, so I'm looking forward to some great family time!

Thanks Norm. That helps, and makes a lot of sense. What would you give for a time machine, heh? Cheers Paul

Norm, A bit of a sidetrack (I hope that's okay) but is there any commentary or thoughts from the Jewish community just why somebody like Jesus 'took hold' instead of perhaps somebody like Hillel? If we eliminate miracles, prophecy and other 'nonsense', is Jesus any different to Hillel? What perhaps drove these people to form a religion around Jesus? Cheers Paul

Nice. Thanks. Cheers Paul

So getting in touch with your soul is about just being yourself, your true self? Recognising the BS in your life for what it is, put it aside, and be your true self? I too am sometimes 'struck' by a movie, or scene of a movie. I don't know if this talks about the soul or emotion (are the two different?) - I remember a few months ago watching an episode of Sons of Anarchy (a fictional TV series about a bikie gang) where the bikies desired to kill an enemy and they made the hit whilst he and his young son went to the toilet in a tatoo parlour (who was a friend of the bikies). They didn't expect the kid to accompany his Dad to the toilet and were caught suprised. Rather than use the bikie's hestitancy as a chance to fight back, but risk harm to his child, the Dad accepted he was going to die, calmy sent his child from the room with some loving words (but not enough to alarm the child) and calmly accepted his bloody fate (he was a kind of live by the sword/die by the sword fella). I'm not certain just why this scene made me so emotional. I think it was partly attributable to the fact that I am a Dad to two young boys and could imagine what their life would be without me, but also I was struck by the 'goodness' of this bad guy who put his child's well being above his own, even in the face of death. So even the bad guy, wasn't neccessarily all bad. I don't know if that's the kind of thing you were asking for, but it's something that struck me as perhaps revealing of the soul? Paul

Myron, Do you mean to argue that when one avoids responsibility, even if it is out of ignorance or misunderstanding, that 'evil' is being committed or that such can lead to evil being committed? Paul

Jen, How do you think one gets 'in touch' with the soul, if indeed there is such a thing as getting in touch with something that is already a part of you. Cheers Paul

Pete, I just had to mention that I just came across this article in one of our State newspapers in Western Australia, today. Clearly the 'desperation' is not limited to the US & UK. SCOTLAND'S Loch Ness monster exists. She's a plesiosaur, a living dinosaur, and her existence shows God created the Earth and evolution is bunkum. That’s what Australian homeschool kids can learn from a US curriculum being distributed here. Families are using the Accelerated Christian Education curriculum, which has sparked controversy worldwide for using magical imaginary beasts like Nessie to argue that God created the world quite recently and that the Darwinian theory of evolution is wrong. In Australia homeschooling families have to agree to complete the basic curriculum, but are free to use any other curricula as well. Regulation is up to the individual states.

Yet some of them taste so good, Trust

I know your question is rhetorical Neon, but it's the same question that many have been asking over the ages - what point is there to suffering? There are those who believe suffering is somehow required to 'build one up' or that it makes us stronger (God will only give you as much as you can bear) and other such nonsen......er, beliefs. But when you see suffering that does nothing but destroy families (e.g. famine in Ethiopia) and people who commit suicide because God has given them too much to bear, then suffering as a tool for improvement seems pretty ridiculous. Personally, I think there is no evil but rather suffering simply is what it is. We are organisms evolving on a lump of rock billions of years old. Along with the 'good' comes the 'bad'. Everything doesn't roll our way, and all we can do is makes the most of it and continue on. We can choose to help our fellow humans to make the most of our time alive, or we can choose to wish it away waiting for 'better days' somewhere else, that quite possibly may never come. 'Evil' is what it is, and frankly I don't think there is evil. There's life in all its pros and cons. Here's hoping the pros in your life (and everyone's) outweigh the cons. (Neon, please know I mean none of the above too, in any way, play down your psoriasis. I hope you cand find peace with it as best you can, but it must be majorly hard.) Cheers Paul

I agree with you Pete, it is desperate, but desperate times calls for desperate measures. In the face of scientific proof to the contrary, biblical literalists are struggling to hold together their traditional stories because for them, that's where their security lies. Although they might not recognise it, I think they are scared that if the creation story as they literally know it should fall over, then their whole worldview is at jeopardy, and that's a fear they do not want to face. If you hold the view that the entire Bible is like a dictated memo from God, then for one part of it to be proved wrong would threaten the entire memo. That is a very scary thought for some. To some, it threatens their whole way of living. Incidentally, I think it is an unneccessary fear, but I doubt literalist fundys would feel the same. I think as Soma mentions, there are gaps in the evolutionary timeline, but simply because we don't have all the answers yet is no excuse for ignoring the evidence that does exist. If we all thought like that then we'd still believe the earth was flat like they did in OT days.

Welcome Jim, I feel for you as a struggle with our learned faith is probably the biggest life-changing event we'll ever experience. However I am confident it will be for the better, no matter how long it takes. Don't feel guilty in any way for it having 'taken' so long to question things. We are all a product of our environment and upbringing. For whatever reason your experience didn't compel you to question things until now. There is no blame in that. But at least you are questioing now! All the best and I hope you enjoy your experience here. I know for me it has been of immense value in questioning things, and all in a very safe environment. Cheers Paul (Australia)

Rather than evil, I prefer to label it nonsense.

I'm not sure that acurately portrays where the prominent-anti-theists are. Whilst they may not have replaced their deconstruction with a theology, I would argue they have replaced it with their current beliefs all the same. Certainly negative attitudes aren't neccessarily healthy, but I don't think blaming the deconstruction process is neccessarily the right answer. It is what it is - really if there wasn't a need to deconstruct such false theologies, then there wouldn't be an issue about such negative attitudes and possible ill-health, so to speak. But again, it is what it is and there's no point in 'blaming' anyone for it being what it is. The other thing concerning this analogy is that reconstruction does not neccessarily have to follow deconstruction. The 'reconstruction' so to speak, can simply be 'nothingness' - e.g. a building is destroyed to allow the environment to return to its natural state - without any intervention or deliberate reconstruction. There is no need to reconstruct something in its place - the natural state will simply do its work.

To me, God as some sort of Supreme Creator that consciously chooses what to (and not to) create, simply doesn't make any sense. This question of 'natural evil' further pushes me away from the theory of any such God. What may be evil for the antelope, is life giving sustenance for the lion, so how can its death be called 'evil'? Animals like us live in a kill and be killed world. We are travelling along an evolutionary trajectory. It is what it is and I can't imagine for a minute, a God choosing to 'make' this world in such a manner. To me that is logical, not a God choosing to create evil (or not).

Welcome Jody, I look forward to your participation here. It's great that you were able to move on from the narrow-minded church you previously attended. I wish you all the best. Cheers Paul

Like others here, I think the OT is most likely anti-homosexuality, just as much as it was pro-slavery. Times change and just as we don't stone to death daughters who aren't virgins on their wddding day, don't deny ourselves shellfish, etc etc, in the light of modern developments and the scientific understanding of homosexuality, we can accept people of all sexual orientations as being equal citizens in the world.

Welcome Luttrellcreek, I think you have found an excellent starting place. Cheers Paul

Welcome, Brian. Cheers Paul