thormas

I have read most of Spong and I know his education. However, I believe he has said of himself that he is not a biblical scholar (not that he has not been immersed in them) and, frankly, I have never read such wild speculation ( ex.Paul and Mary) from biblical scholars. So I take some of what he says with grain of salt. I do like him better as a theologian.

Not the word of God just the time/culture bound 'insight' of the writer and the community at the time. We are free to disagree given our own insights.

I have read other actual biblical scholars on Paul and never remember them saying anything similar to Spong (above). I do love Spong but I don't always agree with him. Like Paul was gay and Mary was raped? Again, no scholarly confirmation/agreement and Spong was not an actual biblical scholar (if I remember correctly).

He does have access to the best medical experts..................he simply believes that he is brighter than them even though they didn't pay someone to pass admissions test for them. Odd??

Actually he probably never heard of the above verses - he just wings it based on what is best for 'donald' and lets the chips and the people fall where they may.

Some of us are very comfortable with both God/Jesus and Darwin: belief in Darwin's theory and a faith response to the God revealed in Jesus. Try it, you might like it. Also you might have misread Darwin, he is not an ape-man.

I love it: the trumpster is also the dumpster !!!!!!!!! He seems to have skipped all the verses ..........

Only in the trumpster's version of America do we have such nonsense: Trump’s New Favorite COVID Doctor Believes in Alien DNA, Demon , and Hydroxychloroquine The trumpster just can't accept that he was wrong on hydroxychloroquine and he (re)tweets a doctor whom he presents to the American people and when questioned says 'he knows nothing about her.' Oh my god!

Maybe not show up in churches, although some would, but to have an understanding that resonates for them in the 21st C could mean a world of difference. It did for me in the later decades of the 20th C........and it continues today.

I don't think people necessarily surrender anything as what they were taught or heard was all they had to go on - especially in times of low literacy. I allow that many generations of people were too busy just getting by and simply trusted and depended on what they were told, what was preached.

Many grew up in that world but I was speaking about liberal or progressive expressions (including this and Spong's sites) in which there seem to not be those problems. I'll look at the link but it is dated by a decade. Many might not know but knowing makes a difference (and others can always learn): the real Paul, (one of) the greatest theologian of Christianity did not say that. It might be a letter included in the canon but now we know it was not Paul but one with a different view that used Paul's name. That is liberating knowledge! If someone is convinced it is the 'word of God' then any like us who know 'better' might be barking up the wrong tree. All one can do is present and it is up to the other to listen or not. We made sure we gave that gift of not surrending her own discernment and knowledge to our daughter:+}

Your question (how does it hurt males) seems to not appreciate that most of us engaged in this site are progressive Christian site and we have moved beyond or some have never had any issues with women voices in the Church. For example, I attended grad school in the 80s and my class included both male priests or seminarians, lay people and women including a woman priest/minister. I also have a college (female) friend who is a priest. I am also active on Spong's old site and there are numerous women pastors/leaders who contribute and are heard. Actually, I haven't encountered any men is decades who have problems with women having an equal voice in the Church or spiritual matters. Of course, outside PC there are some leaders of the Catholic (and I'm sure other) church(s).. but who listens to them :+} Are some men against women having equal or leadership voices? Seems so but I doubt any of them labeled themselves progressive or liberal. I don't think women have more opportunity for spiritual growth: some have grown and continue to grow, others not so much - jut like men. Are you quoting Paul or pseudo-Paul? And, I too have never felt controlled by any teacher or preacher - although I guess it could be said that as children we were 'controlled' in what we were taught and how to think about thinks ........at least for a while.

Refused to leave? No.

Good one and if 'he' loses and refuses to leave, he'll be shown the door ..........

That is not a true faith response, just hedging your bet......... What fantasy?

I haven't read it but most of us know the trumpster is a 'danger' on many levels to us as individuals and as Americans (and the world).

Actually Jesus's earthly time was not at the beginning, perhaps more to the middle so I' right on target :+} Careful P as now you're judging who will have and who won't have eternal life - 'true Christians' don't make such judgements.

That would need to be spelled out in greater detail P. Seemingly the Word is spoken and followed by belief or better a faith response to the Word, to Jesus.

This statement misses the point: the Italians and the Irish were..........white. After 'a while' it became easier and easier to assimilate because they looked liked everyone else - they were WHITE. However, it is also obvious that some Italians and Sicilians greatly valued their ethnicity for decades after the boats as did some Irish - something that becomes obvious every St. Patrick's Day. This has waned as time has gone on but no one, consciously or unconsciously, was systematically stacking the desk against the Italians and the Irish for 400+ years. Black men and women are not white and indisputable arguments have been made (acceptable by any fair minded person) that there has been systemic (i.e. built into society) 'racism' against blacks for centuries. The racism begins with the 'introduction' of black men and women to America ............as slaves. Of course they have placed importance on ethnicity (their shared group): they were not brought here (from their homelands) to be assimilated; when freed, they were still not allow to assimilate by many whites especially in certain states; Jim Crow never let them assimilate; anti-civil rights did not ease their way for assimilation; George Wallace prevented their assimilate; the KKK actively prevented any assimilation; and, the indiscriminate stopping (and targeting) of black men by police and the brutal treatment of blacks does not shout assimilation. Even the greater vulnerability to Covid - as opposed to the Irish or Italians - speaks to not being equally assimilated into the American society. Peaceful assimilation into society happens only when that society and its people allow, encourage and let happen the true assimilation of others into that society.

They do indeed, especially in certain (Republican) circles. Thank the gods of politics that the 'other side' (the Dems) don't need conspiracy theories, they just listen the the trumpster: "person, woman, man, camera, tv." And don't forget the crowd size from day 1. This stuff can't be made up as it is the sad reality of the orange man.

Exactly and what they represented was the support of slavery of other human beings.

Neither of us knows the other.............and no one is saying anything should not be examined and addressed.

There is a site called contemplative life.org: it is progressive and as you scroll down it has a small section of Sufism. Also have been reading John Hick's book 'The Fifth Dimension' where he talks about the various human responses to the Transcendent and in one part mentions Al-Junayd's saying, "the water takes its color from the vessel containing it." We are the vessels.

Not so much something I consider a practice but mine in a continual and lifelong awareness, consideration and, at times, 'conversation' with 'God.'

Greeting 4BM, Our back stories have a lot in common. Hope you enjoy the site and the conversations.