PaulS

Thank Rom, I am still trying to understand what you mean about making food choices. Are you suggesting it matters not what our choices are in this regard other than for our own self-realisation? Paul

Soma, So the killing of animals didn't play a part in your decision, just the health choices? I'm curious because I sense that you like to practice peace, yet I see our animal agriculture industry an anti-thesis to peace, certainly for the animals but also for the individuals involved. Surely nobody can enjoy driving a bolt through a cows head, or slitting another animals throat, or running thousands upon thousands of live chickens through slaughtering facilities hour upon hour. Surely there must be a human toll? Cheers Paul

Rom, Would you extend 'choice' to every activity in our lives, or are you selective about what you say people should be allowed 'choice'? For instance if society thought killing animals was just as 'bad' as committing paedophilia, and made laws against eating meat, does it then become less a 'choice'? Cheers Paul

Thanks very much for those thoughts, Joseph. I like that perspective. I don't think we can call killing other beings humane though, whichever way it is portrayed, but I can appreciate where you're coming from. Certainly less cruelty is better than more cruelty.

Welcome Slash, I myself would probably label as an agnostic who sees a lot of merit in some of the teachings of Jesus, or as attributed to him anyway. That's not to say there isn't just as much merit in the teachings of other leaders of religions such as Buddhism and Islam, it's just that I'm not very familiar with those and don't have a burning desire to research them. I'm glad you have joined this forum and I think you will enjoy the participation here. It's nice to know that TCPC is viewed as approachable from atheists and Christians alike (well, some of them both anyway). Cheers Paul

A topic guaranteed to spark debate - what do people think about eating meat and eating/using animal products (dairy, leather, blood & bone fertiliser, etc)? Should Christians respect God's creatures and not kill them for their own use, or did God give humans 'dominion' over animals so we could eat them? Even taking God out of the equation, where do you stand and why on using animals for food and/or other purposes? Disclaimer - I am a recent convert to a predominantly vegan diet because I finally allowed myself to acknowledge that I felt that killing animals was an injustice to the animals and ultimately cruel. And this from a guy who has killed his own animals for food, killed them for control (foxes & rabbits), spent school holidays on a dairy farm, and who felt ripped off if I didn't have meat in my lunch and dinner! Cheers Paul

Welcome Jones, I hope the forum here is beneficial for you. Cheers Paul

Billy, Your story makes me happy too and I'm glad you have found a community that is fulfilling! Enjoy. Cheers Paul

Hi Pam, Welcome to the forum and I hope you enjoy it here. I'm glad you have found what works for you and I look forward to your participation here. Cheers Paul

Thanks Joseph.

I agree with both Steve and Joseph, Whilst there are arrogant and judgemental fundamentalists of both the Christian and the atheist kind, I think there are also fundy 'true believers' from both camps who don't exhibit those traits. In fact, one of the kindest, most caring people I ever knew was a fundamental literalist of the deepest conviction. On the other hand, I have met fierce advocates of atheism who dedicate their lives to helping others and demonstrate compassion rarely seen amongst Christianity. Cheers Paul

Welcome Tiger Lily, I'm very happy you have found this forum and I think you will really enjoy it. From what I've experienced, a lot of members here hold similar views to what your developing - i.e. the bible and the story of Jesus can be enriching and of value, but there is quite likely much lost in translation, interpretation, and some of it is even very doubtful concerning authenticity. I don't think it is 'bad' at all to question the authenticity of some of Jesus' words, in fact I think it is our responsibility to question some of these, particularly when there is so much evidence to suggest they don't seem authentic. In any event, they were written thousands of years ago and so even if they are all word for word genuine, it still doesn't mean they are right for today in their entirety. I hope you enjoy it here and I look forward to your participation and discussion. Cheers Paul

Sorry Chem Eng, I'm not particularly aware of any such sites specifically for discussion on energy. Cheers Paul

Welcome FireDragon76, I can't say I know a lot about Eastern Orthodoxy, but your life journey of not knowing where your beliefs actually fit is not uncommon here. Many here, including myself, have travelled through Christianity in a variety of ways and come out the other not necessarily fitting any particular label. I hope you enjoy the participation here and I look forward to your discussions. Cheers Paul

Rom, My misunderstanding on your post then - I thought you were saying that belief vs belief doesn't measure up because of the lack of evidence. Yes, I have read Wright's book and concur - a very interesting read. Paul

...and myths.

Jason, Welcome, and I hope you enjoy participating here. Cheers Paul

I like the notion Norm, that we're better off just being a 'witness' if you like, to others and letting them come around in time. I guess my question is more considering the influence such religion has on children which in turn become the next generation of decision-making adults. Should we stay silent and let people teach their children that homosexuality is sin and evil and that such people are practising evil for instance? I'm not suggesting 'thought' police but I am asking if there is a line to be drawn where we say such beliefs and indoctrinating children into them should NOT be a case of just "live and let live"? I mean I doubt anyone here would accept that we should let people teach their children that blacks are only good for slavery or that a child best learns how to have sex if it first has sex with its parent, so why the difference?

Rom, I don't think everything is able to be scientifically verified beyond doubt. For instance, I could probably make a fairly good scientific argument that child abuse impacts negatively on the victim's adult life, but there are perhaps also victims that are not harmed. Similarly, there are many instances of religiously indoctrinated children carrying harmful religious baggage throughout their life, and others who don't carry such baggae, even though both have turned their back on the religion they were indoctrinated into. Paul

Should we do so when we know how harmful certain beliefs and indoctrination can be? Should we stand against fundamental Christianity when we have experienced the harm it can cause, or should we let fundy's continue to live their beliefs as they see fit, and continue to push those beliefs and/or indoctrinate children, without voicing a contrary opinion?

"Live and let live". Do we do so when we know how harmful some beliefs and indoctrination can be?

What better way to worship a creator than to love, embrace and enjoy that which he has created - your family and the earth itself! There's all your worship there , IMO. Welcome to the forum and I hope it helps you find some answers from within yourself. Cheers Paul

Thanks Joseph.

Hi ychild, For what it's worth I don't see Jesus as dying for anything other than his own personal experience/beliefs. About the only thing we can say with reasonable certainty about Jesus is that he seemed to have made a significant impact on a number of people during his short period of teaching/preaching. Most likely Jesus felt he had an incredible relationship with God and he wanted others to have that. Most likely he thought the existing religious framework of the day, as well as Roman oppression, got in the way of that. He was trying to change the scene and for that he was executed. I believe that the discussions and theology that followed turned Jesus into a religion, and taking the tradition of sacrifice in Jewish religion, Jesus followers interpreted Jesus' existence to become something different to what it actually was - a sacrifice for us rather than the more likely scenario of a God-enveloped human who was passionately trying to help people see God the way he saw God, but was killed for his troubles. To me that doesn't take a single thing away from the personhood of Jesus and I can still respect, revere, and consider his teachings as a useful guide in life. Cheers Paul

Welcome Kay, When you have God figured out can you let me know please? I'm still wondering about that one too! As Joseph mentioned, the process of elimination may help with narrowing the choices. Welcome to the forum and I hope you enjoy participating here. Very open-minded and some excellent discussion here - and to date, not a single firearm-related injury death or fracking incident! Cheers Paul