PaulS

Whylago, Are you looking for books about progressive Christianity, about biblical scholarship, about the historical Jesus, or about religion in general? Not knowing specifically what you're after, I'll suggest some of my favoured authors anyway: Marcus Borg John Shelby Spong Elaine Pagels Bart Erhman Philip Gulley Dianna Butler Bass Karen Armstrong Richard Dawkins ...to name a few. Cheers Paul

Higherlove, Welcome, and I'm sure you will find the discussions here interesting, perhaps revealing, and certainly without judgement. I hope you enjoy. Cheers Paul

Buck, I don't know how the 'movement' overall may approach this, but for me I simply don't care about any attacks. In fact, who should! I'm not here to win a war, but to live and enjoy my life and help others where I can (because it makes me feel good). However that threatens or angers literalists doesn't really matter to me. Cheers Paul

Hi Jeanie & Blake, Welcome. I hope you enjoy it here and I look forward to participating in discussion with you. Cheers Paul

Welcome Dude - I love the Big Lebowski! Looking forward to getting to know you more and your fellowship here. Cheers Paul

Karl, I am sure you will enjoy being a part of this community! Welcome, Cheers Paul

http://progressivechristianity.org/the-8-points/

Daniel, That sounds like a truly beautiful and touching experience, and such a great one to have before your father passed away so as to perhaps give you peace that he will be okay! Thanks for sharing. Paul

Thanks for sharing that, Buck.

The Dead Sea Scrolls are the oldest known copies of anything from the Hebrew Bible, including parts of the Torah (what Christians may refer to as the first 5 books of the OT). There apparently was a scroll rediscovered in a Bolgona university last May that has apparently been dated to about 1200CE, which would make it the oldest known copy of the Torah, but I don't think it is available for online viewing. I'm not really sure what/where is regarded as the oldest known stand-alone version of the Torah otherwise.

Hi Buck, Welcome to the forum. There are no known original texts of the bible. I think the Dead Sea Scolls are attributed as the oldest OT docs and you can view them here: http://dss.collections.imj.org.il As for the NT, I think (but I could be wrong) that there are a couple of sources attributed as the oldest copies of the NT (again, there are no known originals), the Codex Sinaiticus being one of them. You can view the digitally here: http://www.codexsinaiticus.org/en/ Cheers Paul

Welcome Cinna, I'm glad you have found this forum and I hope it serves you well (I'm sure it will) Many people here have experienced challenges in belief proposed by conservative/fundamental Christianity and I'm sure you'll find plenty of spirited discussion here around many of the 'sticking points' of conservative Christianity. I'm not all that familiar with the Christian apologist, Lee Strobel, other than having read a few articles debunking his 'evidence' for much of what he says. There may be some truth in his words for all I know, but I think it's awesome that you are a fan of treating people well and living your life as best you can - if only religion was left to be so simple! All the best Paul

Daniel, It sounds to me that you are finding out the truth for yourself and coming to your own logical and spiritual conclusions that the devil and demons don't exist in any personal sense, and that your schizophrenia is simply an illness and mental disorder. I don't mean there is anything 'simple' about having schizophrenia but rather that in a medical sense it is no different to any other illness or mental disorder we as humans may inherit or develop. I don't believe for a minute that someone with cancer is demon-possessed, or a child born with MS or autism is demon-possessed, and similarly your schizophrenia has nothing to do with demons and/or demon-possession. I wish you well and hope that participating here is benefiting you on your life journey. Cheers Paul

I read Zealot awhile ago, so am trying to remember Aslan's best points. I can't say I have looked into his assertions anymore than reading his book. I found his interpretation/understanding of Jesus's life to be plausible,feasible, and perhaps even likely. However, I think one needs to be cautious about 'facts' from that period and locale, because there just doesn't seem to be a lot about. I think there was some supposition on Aslan's part, but it did seem to make more sense to me than any other understanding I have had of Jesus' life.

I've got that one on my shelf waiting for my attention, Rom. Norm's spot on when he notes that it's probably not coincidence that as mankind has evolved, so has its God(s). I find that Christians have seemed to have anything but a 'personal relationship with Jesus' until the last few centuries, if even that early.

For me in isn't an issue because I don't believe in an interventionist God. I imagine if one believes in an interventionist God they must rationalise God's inaction in this area much like they would concerning famine, genocide, paedophilia, and other misery & tragedy that seems to befall innocent people.

On the Messageboard front page there is a section called "Watercooler" and under that there is a subsection called "Progressive Christianity Café". This section is for off topic discussion and would probably be the best place to raise the question. Perhaps a thread titled "Anyone from Kansas or Joplin?" might make it easier for those interested to see.

Welcome GeanieBeanie, I have found this forum an excellent place to explore, discuss, debate and share ideas, without judgement or being made to feel 'wrong'. There is a lot of respect shown here for people's different takes on things. I am sure you will enjoy participating here (they're a nice bunch really ) Cheers Paul

I'm not sure if there is any softening, but I do think that the internet and social media has provided an opening up of biblical scholarship and discussion around interpretation of the bible which didn't have much of a voice previously.

Mike, I agree with Norm - I think it is healthy to question beliefs and certainly to question this one of being 'born unto sin'. To me it seems nonsensical, that because I had the misfortune of being born that I am automatically doomed to eternal suffering, unless I 'believe' in Jesus. Conveniently, generally modern Christianity doesn't deal with children and infants who die before coming to 'believe' and I think that is because it doesn't seem rational to anybody that an innocent child could possible be born already evil and worthy of eternal damnation. I think it is convenient for religion to develop a 'rule' or rules which can provide so-called security for ones eternal being. It smacks of human fear rather than sense. Cheers Paul

Okie, The two are incompatible in my view - you can't love somebody you fear! True love does not require fear in exchange for love. If we're talking about God as a father then my experience as a father is the only way I can relate. I love my children and nothing, NOTHING, could ever come between me and my love for them. They may drive me crazy, they may even hate me for some reason, but I would never ever wish them to be eternally separated from me and/or suffer eternal anguish. For me to want them to fear me would be an ego trip in itself! Cheers Paul

Paul John to be precise! - Both biblical names! I have never thought to ask my parents if I was named from the bible, but with a younger sister named Shelley Gaye, I'm guessing if they did they had a change of heart with her two years later! It can be a bit overwhelming at the start, Okie, there is so much information and dialogue on here. I would simply suggest the front page, http://tcpc.ipbhost.com, and drill down from there into the various sections and post topics. I hope you enjoy.

Hi Okie, Like Joseph says too, I hope you feel welcome here and enjoy participating in the discussions. Those doubts can be nagging but I found sharing, researching & learning has helped to put any such doubts to bed. Cheers Paul

When you used the term 'The New Atheists' I thought you were referring to Sam Harris and co. This from the Internet Encyclopedia of Philosophy; "The New Atheists are authors of early twenty-first century books promoting atheism. These authors include Sam Harris, Richard Dawkins, Daniel Dennett, and Christopher Hitchens. The “New Atheist” label for these critics of religion and religious belief emerged out of journalistic commentary on the contents and impacts of their books. A standard observation is that New Atheist authors exhibit an unusually high level of confidence in their views. Reviewers have noted that these authors tend to be motivated by a sense of moral concern and even outrage about the effects of religious beliefs on the global scene. It is difficult to identify anything philosophically unprecedented in their positions and arguments, but the New Atheists have provoked considerable controversy with their body of work." I didn't realise there was a culture war going on between nasty new atheists and religious believers, but intolerance and hatred can never be a good thing.

Personally, I think it is more a media tag and beat up than a genuine representation of any particular 'group'. There will always be extremists in all shapes and forms, but I can hardly think of more than a handful of people in the world that might be identified as these 'new atheists'. My interactions are limited to some Youtube and books.