What is the "Word of God"?

[thormas]

3 minutes ago, Elen1107 said:

I'm not all that fine with the way we sometimes disagree

I'm thinking we could get better at/about it.

I'm absolutely not saying don't disagree, not if one is truly being honest and not just disagreeing to disagree, or for some other reason(s).

The way we sometimes do it could go a bit better, I think.

Well, although it is sometimes 'uncomfortable' it is also ok since I doubt you will concede 😋

[Elen1107]

6 minutes ago, thormas said:

Well, although it is sometimes 'uncomfortable' it is also ok since I doubt you will concede 😋

How bout yourself? 

One shouldn't "concede" if they truly feel they are right and honestly believe and or really do experience or know something.

However,. . . I'm not going to say what I was going to say,.. I'm just going to leave it there. . . for now.

[thormas]

28 minutes ago, Elen1107 said:

How bout yourself? 

One shouldn't "concede" if they truly feel they are right and honestly believe and or really do experience or know something.

However,. . . I'm not going to say what I was going to say,.. I'm just going to leave it there. . . for now.

No concessions........

I do like your attitude though.

 

[Pipiripi]

The word of God is: "Keep His 10 Commandments and have the faith of Jesus. Revelation 12:17 and Revelation 14:12.

[thormas]

1 hour ago, Pipiripi said:

The word of God is: "Keep His 10 Commandments and have the faith of Jesus. Revelation 12:17 and Revelation 14:12.

Well, some of us were having a more nuanced discussion. Plus your comment can still be summed up by the two great commandments or simply the one commandment of Love - which is, btw, the faith response of Jesus. 

[Pipiripi]

On 9/4/2020 at 6:23 PM, thormas said:

Well, some of us were having a more nuanced discussion. Plus your comment can still be summed up by the two great commandments or simply the one commandment of Love - which is, btw, the faith response of Jesus. 

Which one is closer to God? Revelation 12:17 and 14:12, or the others?

Remember, Jesus has spoken. 

[thormas]

1 hour ago, Pipiripi said:

Which one is closer to God? Revelation 12:17 and 14:12, or the others?

Remember, Jesus has spoken. 

I don't take Revelation literally and Jesus didn't speak it - so neither speaks for God and neither is close to him.

[PaulS]

2 hours ago, Pipiripi said:

Which one is closer to God? Revelation 12:17 and 14:12, or the others?

Remember, Jesus has spoken. 

Pipiripi,

It might benefit you to learn a bit about the Book of Revelation - such as who wrote it, where it came from, in what context it was written, etc.  I think reading it literally is a total misunderstanding of what the author was getting at.  Here's a brief article on some of what Elaine Pagels has to say, but there is plenty more available (both within this forum and also external resources).  

https://news.harvard.edu/gazette/story/2009/12/revelations-on-revelation/

Cheers

Paul

[thormas]

7 hours ago, PaulS said:

Pipiripi,

It might benefit you to learn a bit about the Book of Revelation - such as who wrote it, where it came from, in what context it was written, etc.  I think reading it literally is a total misunderstanding of what the author was getting at.  Here's a brief article on some of what Elaine Pagels has to say, but there is plenty more available (both within this forum and also external resources).  

https://news.harvard.edu/gazette/story/2009/12/revelations-on-revelation/

Cheers

Paul

Good find Paul, I like Pagels and have not read this one. Thanks!

[Pipiripi]

19 hours ago, thormas said:

Good find Paul, I like Pagels and have not read this one. Thanks!

I never has take the book of Revelation literally completely. It is a literal and symbolic and prophetic book. 

Why do you don't go to see in here? Don't be afraid. 

end-times-prophecy.org 

[thormas]

3 hours ago, Pipiripi said:

I never has take the book of Revelation literally completely. It is a literal and symbolic and prophetic book. 

Why do you don't go to see in here? Don't be afraid. 

end-times-prophecy.org 

I see you haven't responded to the conspiracy theories on that site.

If you don't take Revelation literally then you must agree it has nothing to do with prophecy or the end time - for such a position would be taking it literally. Don't be afraid, just admit it.

Edited September 7, 2020 by thormas

[PaulS]

20 hours ago, Pipiripi said:

I never has take the book of Revelation literally completely. It is a literal and symbolic and prophetic book. 

Why do you don't go to see in here? Don't be afraid. 

end-times-prophecy.org 

I did look at that website and I find it to be of no value whatsoever.  It misrepresents Jesus' teachings, pretends to know prophecy which in itself is confused about, is anonymous (clearly nobody wants to put their name to it) and is just simply what I would call 'sad'.  There is no fear on my part.  But I would encourage you to read some scholarly material about Jesus, Revelation and indeed the bible in general, if you are open to better understanding these things.

[JosephM]

Pipiripi,

The "Word" of God

Logos, (Greek: “word,” “reason,” or “plan”) plural logoi, in ancient Greek philosophy and early Christian theology, the divine reason implicit in the cosmos, ordering it and giving it form and meaning. To me, the invisible  energy by which all things are directed into 'being',  both seen and unseen.

In my view, the Bible does not qualify to the definition. It is neither divine reason nor implicit in the cosmos. It is a series of short books/stories and letters (epistles) containing past down historical accounts, instructional advice for living, proverbs, prophecies, interpretations/definitions/descriptions of God both literal and symbolic written by men/women concerning their view of God and God's relation with men as reasoned through the eyes of their time and personal experiences.

That about sums it up for me concerning the question of the initial post of this thread by Elen..

[Pipiripi]

On 9/8/2020 at 12:57 AM, PaulS said:

I did look at that website and I find it to be of no value whatsoever.  It misrepresents Jesus' teachings, pretends to know prophecy which in itself is confused about, is anonymous (clearly nobody wants to put their name to it) and is just simply what I would call 'sad'.  There is no fear on my part.  But I would encourage you to read some scholarly material about Jesus, Revelation and indeed the bible in general, if you are open to better understanding these things.

You didn't read or pray before you have read it. And they have also an email address. Everybody that has do exactly what they say has seen the truth. Because all they say is exactly what the Bible says.

I'm open of all understanding. Give me a question answer see if I cannot answer it BIBLICAL, and then I ask you a question and see that you can answered me BIBLICAL. 

[thormas]

1 hour ago, Pipiripi said:

You didn't read or pray before you have read it. And they have also an email address. Everybody that has do exactly what they say has seen the truth. Because all they say is exactly what the Bible says.

I'm open of all understanding. Give me a question answer see if I cannot answer it BIBLICAL, and then I ask you a question and see that you can answered me BIBLICAL. 

You didn't read before you read it? Say what??

 

[PaulS]

12 hours ago, Pipiripi said:

You didn't read or pray before you have read it. And they have also an email address. Everybody that has do exactly what they say has seen the truth. Because all they say is exactly what the Bible says.

I'm open of all understanding. Give me a question answer see if I cannot answer it BIBLICAL, and then I ask you a question and see that you can answered me BIBLICAL. 

There is no challenge in using the bible to answer questions.  That's the easy bit.  The hard bit is actually understanding it correctly - in its context, in its time and with the author's intent and purposes understood.  Now that's the bit many, many Christians are yet to understand.

[Pipiripi]

3 hours ago, PaulS said:

There is no challenge in using the bible to answer questions.  That's the easy bit.  The hard bit is actually understanding it correctly - in its context, in its time and with the author's intent and purposes understood.  Now that's the bit many, many Christians are yet to understand.

Just like you my friend. Are you keeping the 10 Commandments?

[PaulS]

34 minutes ago, Pipiripi said:

Are you keeping the 10 Commandments?

Well, I must admit, there are times I covet my neighbors ox, but then again, I don't know where I would keep it!.  Largely I'm pretty good though.

[thormas]

9 hours ago, Pipiripi said:

Just like you my friend. Are you keeping the 10 Commandments?

It is a new covenant with God that Jesus brings and the 10 are best understood as two and the two are one: Love. All else is mere commentary.

[Burl]

3 hours ago, thormas said:

It is a new covenant with God that Jesus brings and the 10 are best understood as two and the two are one: Love. All else is mere commentary.

No, this is a tautology.  Mere semantics without explication.

[thormas]

1 hour ago, Burl said:

No, this is a tautology.  Mere semantics without explication.

Jesus summarized the 10 in the two: "On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets."  And both are about love, so 1.

If mere semantics or inexplicable ...............at least I'm in good company :+}

[Burl]

Your not wrong.  Apologies to non/Americans, but all of the laws, statutes and municipal codes hang on the Constitution.  Not super helpful.

There is also natural law and the Noachide laws which apply to non-Jews.

Pipi has a valid interpretation.  Pointing to Jesus’ rule of thumb does not refute Jesus’ extensive and detailed quotation of Scripture or his statement that he would not remove a ‘jot or tittle’ of the written law.

Jesus did correct the Pharisee’s interpretation of keeping the Sabbath holy, but the commandment itself was never questioned.

Edited September 12, 2020 by Burl

[thormas]

5 hours ago, Burl said:

Your not wrong.  Apologies to non/Americans, but all of the laws, statutes and municipal codes hang on the Constitution.  Not super helpful.

There is also natural law and the Noachide laws which apply to non-Jews.

Pipi has a valid interpretation.  Pointing to Jesus’ rule of thumb does not refute Jesus’ extensive and detailed quotation of Scripture or his statement that he would not remove a ‘jot or tittle’ of the written law.

Jesus did correct the Pharisee’s interpretation of keeping the Sabbath holy, but the commandment itself was never questioned.

And with respect to other faith expressions, the discussion was Christianity and Jesus. 

As to Pip - it is not helpful to continually ask others if they are obeying the 10. If the 1 commandment of Love is obeyed, all is fulfilled. And 'all' that is necessary is to wake up the next day (and all one's days) and fulfill it again and again and again. 

 

The full 10 were never questioned, no one said they were. However the 10 are fulfilled in the 2 ..........which is still simply the 1: Love and do what you will (for what one wills is love).

What is reminiscent of the Pharisees of old is their mis-interpretation and their use of the law to harass and judge others. 

 

[Pipiripi]

On 9/12/2020 at 9:08 AM, thormas said:

It is a new covenant with God that Jesus brings and the 10 are best understood as two and the two are one: Love. All else is mere commentary.

The Commandments stay till the end of the world. Matthew 5:17-18. Does this world has PASSED away?

Let me teach you. The first four commandments belongs to God. That is the FIRST. 

The six other Commandments is for humans. That is the SECOND. 

If you love God keep all the 10 Commandments. Including the forth commandment the Sabbath day of the LORD.

 

[thormas]

1 hour ago, Pipiripi said:

The Commandments stay till the end of the world. Matthew 5:17-18. Does this world has PASSED away?

Let me teach you. The first four commandments belongs to God. That is the FIRST. 

The six other Commandments is for humans. That is the SECOND. 

If you love God keep all the 10 Commandments. Including the forth commandment the Sabbath day of the LORD.

 

And let me teach you: the first 4 are summed up in the 1st great commandment and the remaining 6 are 'summed' up by the 2nd great commandment. And of course if one truly loves God then they love their neighbor and, conversely, if one truly loves their neighbor, then they love God. 

No one has said or suggested the commandments don't 'stay till the end of the world' - however, in truth, all the commandments are to Love.

 

Actually some of the commandments are stated in the negative, such as 'thou shalt not'............but the 2 great commandments put a positive spin on it: thou mayest Love.

 

You're welcome.