JosephM

Bill, Connectivness is in my view not realized through thinking. Thinking reveals a separation as if we are a separate thinker with a brain that thinks. It seems to me it is during moments of non-thinking.or the gap between thoughts that we realize this connectiveness to all. All the Gospels, and even Pauls writings, not just John speaks of sacrificing ones life or dying to self. This is in a sense a kind of disconnect of sorts from self and a oneness with All that IS. This in my view does not disconnect one from feeding the poor and helping others but on the contrary moves one to service. I think your point "that life in the real world is to be avoided" is a not a tenant of that which i speak of but rather a result of your own reasoning and your own interpretation of others on such matters. You said, ".I think being spiritual is moving deeper into reality, not escaping from it." That is very profound and true in my experience. The question that brings to mind is ... Is reality that which is seen with the eyes or that which is the substrate of that which is seen but is not seen with the eyes.? Joseph

Bill, It seems to me that Jesus was for some part ....a non-thinker. The words he spoke "were not his own" , His "teaching was not his own" and by himself, "he could do nothing". He is recorded saying his words were "spirit and "truth" and from the Father who sent him. Of course this all is mostly from the Gospel of John but in the flesh we have thinking, in the Spirit a thing is known. It is recorded Jesus said "That which is flesh is flesh and that which is Spirit is Spirit.". I would not discount the benefit or value in non-thinking. Perhaps one will find from practice inspiration comes mostly from non-thinking or better said as that which surfaces when the mind is still. Perhaps it provides an even greater insight than thinking and is more than instinct in humans. Just my personal opinion. Joseph

Welcome Gaylordcat and thanks for the wonderful introduction. You are most welcome here to discuss related subjects that interest you. I think you will find much in common with people here .... even those who may choose to carry a different label. Joseph

David and Bill, Actually Karen Armstrong , a well known progressive, is both on radio and TV and has podcasts.and is on Youtube. Spong also does interviews and is on radio (abc.net) and Youtube. He does alot of speaking engagements and radio broadcasts such as beiief radio. You can also find Crossan and many others on both radio and youtube. Granted they aren't publicized as much as non-progressives but if you research i think you will be surprised to find a growing number of TV, radio and internet teachings by progressives. Joseph PS Even our ProgressiveChristianity.org presidient, Fred Plumer can be found on radio such as HERE. Also others like Marcus Borg can be found HERE on interfaithradio.org

This is amusing..... http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-202_162-57594227/vatican-get-time-off-in-purgatory-by-following-pope-on-twitter/ Joseph

Hi DavidD, Good to hear from you after so long a time. I can relate to your post. I think our own vocabulary and current conceptual understanding of things has a lot to do with the words we hear in translation concerning the Divine. . Joseph

Thanks fatherman and good to hear from you again. Feeling the extreme heat in a very warm summer month here in KY.

Welcome Element, Sounds like you will be right in your "element" here. Many like-minded as yourself have come to this site for dialog after being exposed to Bishop Spong.. Look forward to your contributions and participation. Joseph

Being inseparable from God, I create reality which is seen to us humans as perishable and " mine " yet "knowing" I am not separate, God exists because I am. (I exist or more accurately stated just "I") I or Existence itself requires no proof. Therefor God requires no proof nor can be known without realization of "I".(not only "i" as in that which which is created).God is more than any belief. God is an ever present Reality. So it seems to me, Joseph

Bill, Perhaps you are taking things out of context??? If you examine my post you referenced, i said " Love, as defined by the majority of people i have met, indeed doesn't click as God for me either" As i think you will find i have often referred to God as Love but not in the context of what many humans might define as Love. Anyway, no big deal. Effective communications are often difficult for us all. Perhaps i could do a better job at making myself clearer. Joseph

Bill, I am not in the least bit upset at your opinion or comment. I just thought (IMO) it was s a post that could be expressed in a more acceptable way without making it personal or using such language. I think Rom was trying to say something that is difficult to communicate in language so he even used the quotes of others to help. Perhaps it would be best to ask him questions to try to fully understand his point of view instead of assuming he was for encouraging "bad acts" or for society taking no action concerning certain acts? Joseph

Bill, You said above you understand exactly what Rom is saying ... "And even the most abominable things should be accepted and encouraged.". Rom never said they should be "encouraged". Perhaps you misunderstood his REAL point? No where did he advocate people doing what you might consider bad. He merely said "If god is in you, me, rocks, the neighbour's cat and that thief ... then there is a certain cognitive dissonance in thinking of that thief or thiefly actions as bad. In my opinion. If that thief has an absence of god then we need understanding not a condemnation as "bad". " To me, he was expressing his "opinion" in what he perceives as a problem in viewing things strictly as 'good and bad or 'good and evil'. That in no way says he doesn't think people who are thiefs should not be jailed or ones home not defended. I as you Bill, would defend my family yet i perhaps as Rom, internally instead of condemming that person think "We can put a thief in jail without thinking the thief's actions are bad or thief himself bad" I know it is a difficult thing for many to understand. I am not saying you are wrong to say, this is bad or this is good, but it is my opinion that there is something to be gained spiritually speaking in understanding rather than condemnation. Just my 2 cents. Also it seems important to me not to take the opinions of others here too personal where they are expressed as such. Though as a member of the community i thought your last 2 sentences in post 72 were as written, went a bit too far and was uncalled to make your point so i gave the -1 peer rating as a member. Joseph (as Member)

Welcome, Your definition , i believe fits in real well here. Love, as defined by the majority of people i have met, indeed doesn't click as God for me either. Joseph

zcarol, Welcome to the community. So glad you are now more comfortable with your beliefs. Most here share your understanding of things and hold Spong in high regard for all he has done through his writings. Again welcome and looking forward to your participation. Joseph

Paul, I will share one of a number of experiences that wasl quite different. Bill's subjective feelings above were quite similar to many of my own experiences but i will share a different one here. I was listening to a Jewish man who i was introduced to and who was complaining about his wife to me and while i heard his words a strange feeling came over me and the space between us two disappeared and i suddenly and instantly knew him intimately as if i were him but without the entanglement of his emotions. I then proceeded to explain that the problem was not his wife's as he was saying but his own and explained why and he stood in awe as i spoke and he acknowledged and stopped complaining. Hiss demeanor changed and he thanked me. I saw him a few times after and his personality was transnformed into one of great peace with his wife. Whether he stayed that way or not was in his hands but the experience had at least a temporary profound effect for both of us. To me there is indeed no separation between us when realizing God's presence more fully. It is a oneness that i have experienced of connectedness and not forgotten.. Joseph

Not to worry Rom ...... God does not require belief....

Hi Rhino, This THREAD " Just what is PC to You? " might offer some insight to your question from members here. For me,Christianity is my background and religion by which i was raised. I find other religions help to broaden my perspective of Christianity. Just because fundamental Christianity has made it into something i believe it is not is no reason for me to not identify as a progressive Christian. After all, some of the teachings of Jesus are what led me to an approach to God. They are still valid to me today. Why not call myself a PC since i follow after the teachings of Jesus? Joseph

66 this month Mow. Still feel young inside. The body is not permanent anyway so i accept any physical limitations i may have and rejoice in the presence of Life. Joseph

I would share that understanding. Well said Bill, Joseph

Thank you for bringing to my attention. There were some left over files from a previous upgrade not deleted and causing the problem..... Yes it works fine now Joseph

Bob, Verified and working issue on hosting computer. Will repost here when resolved. Joseph

Paul, As close as any words can be, remembering they are only words. Pictures won't do either. As Rom said, if one can put God into words.... that is not God. Yet our mind tries to conceptualize that which we can subjectively experience but not truly understand.with the thinking mind in Newtonian concepts. Joseph

Paul, I do not think of God as any_thing nor as something. I experience God as 'being' or 'isness' for lack of better words. See my post #6 above for how God exists as Love for me. God does not exist to me as an emotion called love as commonly defined in dictionaries though emotion may be present.. To me Love is more of a total internal acceptance of the moment as what is and while somewhat euphoric is as difficult as God to describe or define. Many as you indicate " can't reconcile how a God sitting back and allowing things to play out as they may, could be described as 'love'." Perhaps the problem is not only in the concept of God, man's definition of love and assumptions one is using but likewise in the absence of a realization in the asking of the questions "who am I" ," what is the world" , and "who/what is God". As long as they appear as three postulates, how can a realization be possible? To inhere in one's 'being', the three become one and both the question of reconciliation and the need for an answer disappear. Anyway, thats my best take on your question and reconciliation comment , Joseph

PS. just for clarification of the above post ...... Total acceptance of the moment is not to be confused with apathy . It is in my view merely a place of total peace one can go beyond the thinking mind and from where one can see more clearly to choose ones action or inaction wisely in harmony with the whole or natural progression of human consciousness . Joseph

To me, Love is total acceptance rather than an emotion or a carnal mind defined course of action. God/Creation accepts itself always. The story of man is an evolving one. Pain and suffering are temporary words that are inherent to an evolving human consciousness. It seems to me ...... All life here in this world is temporal in nature and subject to a myriad of emotions and opposites that the mind creates. As long as one loses oneself in ones "story" and confuses the "story" for Life, pain and suffering will exist. To understand who or what one is at the deepest level is to free oneself from such a story and see the natural harmony and beauty of Being. This is not to say that such a one does not emphatize with those lost in their "story" nor contribute to easing the perceived suffering . However, there is an end to personal suffering and it does require "death" , howbeit not that which is physical. As we die daily to self and the importance of its story, a new world appears where old things pass away and the light of Life illuminates the world as a world of effects in which contrary to man's thinking, no real causes are found. Perhaps one will find that Love is not 'good ' or 'bad' nor does it manipulate life here but rather accepts life and evolution in a perfectly regulated universe and experiences its handiwork in all its diversity without judgement. Just my own unique experience and take on that which is hard to accept for most of humankind on why God is Love, Joseph