October's Autumn

The "we mostly agree on what is right and wrong" is very limited: adultry (?), murder, and incest. Everything is culture. The source, one could argue, is suvival, ie Evolution.

Exactly. To quote the Rabbi: We only know what we have now.

No, not until recently and because of Christmas. But literally, there would be no Christmas without Hanukkah. Had the Macabees not rebelled Judaism would not have survived and without Judaism there would be no Christianity!

Don't you mean: Fleece Navidad?

okay... We were more in the realm of beliefs (trinity vs. unitarian; pretrib vs. postrib; etc.) in contrast to living out the teachings of Jesus (pacifism on both a personal and world level, taking care of the widow and orphans, etc.) kind of discussion. "What people believe usually has a great deal to do with what and why they do or don't do." Your statement didn't fit in this particular comment. On top of which the statement is false-- check with your General Psychology textbooks. Humans are quite good at "do as I say not as I do" And Christianity in particular is particularly good and focusing on Dogma instead of focusing on action. You can see it all over this board where ex-fundies etc. struggle with believing in the right things over doing the right things. It seemed more like an opportunity for you to slam what I said.

Happy Hanukkah! Without Hanukkah their would be no Christmas!

I agree with your take on the divorce thing. I think Jesus was protecting women from the whims of an angry husband and a society who thought of them as their husband's property. I believe that women who divorced and could not remarry sometimes (often?) became prostitutes for a lack of any way to take care of themselves. If this were true it would be another reason for the admonishment. I think Jesus' answer to the Saducees regarding heaven also had a double meaning. They couldn't see how a woman who had been married to 7 men could belong to all of them in heaven. Jesus simply said that women would not be property in heaven. How radical!

eh?

Not true. it is known as hypocrisy.

What about when we die we die?

When taken in context with the REST of his sexist views it is an example of his sexism. If it were only that he depicted Satan as a female and a witch that would be different. As far as Jesus and the lion, God is also portrayed as a mother bear. Keep in mind that male lions are very lazy creatures. They do not hunt. They pretty much lie around in the sun and wait for the lioness to bring them food. The only time they fight is if another male threatens their territory. They also practice infanticide. I personally don't see a lion as a very good representation of Jesus. Christianity's tendency to complete ignore the feminine portrayls of God and only embrace the masculine are also evidence of sexism both by Lewis and by Christians in general. Shame, because Jesus was most certainly a feminist, as is God.

Ya know, I've heard that, but I've never picked up on it. Pullman makes a big deal of it in his Narnia critiques. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Seriously? Read the part where he tells Lucy and (I forget the other names) about what they can't do because they are girls! Not to mention the fact that Jesus is depicted as a lion and Satan as a female witch. His writings are loaded with sexism.

I doubt anyone would ask me the question simply because it is outside the realm of my reality. I'm not trying to convert anyone so there would be no reason for the question to be asked. I would however be very happy that the person was moral -- by moral I assume one means that she is an anti war activist and doing something good with her life to make other people's lives better. I've met athiest who are more Christ-like than many Christians.

Today's heretics are tomorrow's Pilgrims. The heretics are the ones who don't have the microphone -- i.e. power.

This brought up an interesting memory... I'll summarize something I learned while in seminary, Israel, and post-seminary (particularly while attending Synagogue). We should be less concerned about what people believe and more concerned about what people do. Sadly, Christianity has been corrupted by western thought and has lost its focus. We focus so much on orthodoxy and not enough on orthopraxy. Jesus was much more concerned with orthopraxy.

Hehehehe. I'm excited about the movie. I'm a huge Jim Carrey fan, but I'm going to purposely keep my expectations low (which usually means I enjoy the movie more). <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Now we might go see the one with Jennifer Aniston about Mrs. Robinson! Decisions, decisions!

I can't read Lewis. Can't get past the incredible amount of sexism.

God is as God's people are doing.

That is what I'm thinking. It is especially odd since some Christians are so up in arms about the Happy Holiday. While I celebrate Christmas as a family holiday those who claim to celebrate it as a religious holiday are being rather hypocritical (imho) if they don't go to church on Sunday! Maybe they are different people?

I am actually excited and looking forward to going to church on Sunday. Partially because I really, really like my church but also because Christmas day is so darn borning. It will kill over an hour! We are also going to see Fun with Dick and Jane on Sunday. Not sure what else we have planned. My favorite line from the trailer is "I think we're in a little bit of a pickle, Dick!"

I think as long as they don't name names or give specifics that would identify the person they are okay. If someone were doing this I would hope someone would take them aside and help them understand they need to be more discreet when asking for prayer. I think there is a great deal to be said about silent prayer requests, too.

Fred -- greatly appreciate your thoughts and critique!

No, because many aren't even aware it exists. I know I didn't until recently. I felt kind of "on my own" with my progressive view points. I'm glad you are spreading the word.

Okay, need to talk about this with sensible people. Am I crazy or is it completely nutty that people would sue companies or boycott them because they say "Happy Holidays!" Maybe we should just say nothing at all

Yes, I have a mission to change the world. Question: How do you go about changing the world?