October's Autumn

Fuller? I don't think so. http://www.fuller.edu/provost/aboutfuller/believe_teach.asp <{POST_SNAPBACK}> She won't jump from Fundamentalist to Liberal. It is a growth process. It is easier to do it via baby steps than jumping which often seems like more of a reactionary way to grow rather than a legitimate intellectual and emotional growth that happens. Or at least that is my experince. You have to understand that currently she thinks Christians can't be psychologists, that women can't be ordained, and Halloween is evil...

Salvation from what and/or for what purpose?

I think baptism as done in churches misses the point. The inward change is a life long journey so for baptism to suggest that someone *Has* changed (past tense) is deceptive and suggests that they are done changing. I see it as a meaningless ritual, like wearing crosses and taking communion that has lost its meaning through out the ages.

Welcome to you, too! Question: How did you find your way out of fundamentalism? I have a new friend who is also a new Christian and showing signs of fundamentalism. I'm hoping over time she will grow into a more progressive Christian (I've directed her to Fuller Theological Seminary which I hope may move her in that direction).

Welcome!

I don't think religion per se is the problem. I think it those who use religion to their own aims that is the problem. Goes back to the discussion on evil. It isn't a force out there, it is actions of people that is evil.

"animals don't consent to being ground into beef patties, either" Sounds like an argument FOR vegetarianism, not for beastiality. Sorry, if you can't say yes, you are saying no!

About a year ago I took the required Health Education course for all CA teachers. The study they talked about showed this. There were two groups. One was taught abstinence only, the other was taught Abstinence plus Birth Control. When they followed the two groups they found they both started having sex at the same time but the AO group had higher rates of pregnancy and STD's. Go figure.

That is an easy one. The south is getting hit for [a] supporting Bush, and for oppressing homosexual people. Why do people have such a tough time figuring this out? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> ROFL!!! Talk about turning things on their head! : ) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

In college I learned that all truth comes from God. That includes the truths in Humanism.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}> Having been on both sides, I strongly disagree. At the very least conservatives are more vulnerable to the rhetoric because of an unwillingness to question authority.

That is an easy one. The south is getting hit for [a] supporting Bush, and for oppressing homosexual people. Why do people have such a tough time figuring this out?

The Christian way? There is no such thing. There are as many different versions of Christianity as there are people. Ever meet two people who believed *exactly* the same thing? It is a shame humanism is given such a bad name in Christianity. Usually out of a lack of real education on the topic. As a psych major I learned that if you held to anyone philosophy you were pretty much doomed to failure. It was better to be eclectic and pull from the different philosophies what worked. Same goes here.

In an ideal world the Christian response is to.... hmmm... well, er, ummm... I like to think of it as how respond to people (with patience and understanding -- withholding judgement, etc.) ... I guess... tough one...

Can't comment on the book because I haven't read it. However, The book of Revelations (I've read, studied, etc.) I can comment on. Simply put the book is about the expectations of early Christians in their lifetime. Some of it was taking place, some of it they hoped to take place, soon. They certainly expected the end of the world to come to them. The reason it is written like it is is so if it got in the wrong hands it couldn't be understood. That is also why much of the symbolism is either lost to us or simply a best educated guess. One interesting tidbit. 666 is the number of Neron. Each letter has a value and they add up to his name. Sometimes Revelations uses 616 which is the shortened version of his name: Nero.

There seems to be less rhetoric on the left simply because they/we are not a cohesive group.

Wow! He sure is cute! Is he smiling or does he have gas? I can't believe he is only a month old! He is BIG! I'd have guessed 3 or 4 months.

I know!!!! The great thing about subbing is I get to be in all grades. I can't believe what we have to do in Kindergarten! It is Kindergarten for heaven sake! They are children! Little teeny tiny children who have to use the potty every 45 minutes

I have beliefs about a lot of things, but without any credentials, nobody's going to hire me to make sweeping changes to implement them. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> ... and even if you did people wouldn't necessarily let you It is most frustrating.

Who is "they"? Education theorists, bureaucrats, both? Education theorists? Heck no! They are the ones who are most against such things. Politians and their rich constiutiants, the right wing Christians, no doubt. Antedotes don't make truth. The last study showed Public School students doing better in math than private school. http://www.livescience.com/othernews/05041...hool_stats.html I think when they look at Language Arts, Science, and History they will find the same is true.

Yes! I have a terrible time remembering names, anyhow. The irony is I used to love her music and actually owned a tape! (Pre-CDs).

THis goes back to our discussion on evil. I don't believe that death (while sad) is evil. The hurricane is neutral, a part of nature. Where evil comes in is in how people react to it (or in some cases do not). I'm working 3 days a week at a school where the children live in poverty. Yet they are collecting money to donate to the victims of Hurricane Katrina. Last year in about 2 weeks these same children collected over $3,000 to send to the victims of the tsunami. OTOH If in fact the violence of these storms comes from the global warming caused by emissions, etc. then it is the consequences of our own actions as a human race. If we look at community rather than individuals, that is. SInce many of the victims didn't even own cars (ironically, why they became vicitms) they obviously did not personally "deserve" this.

Because they want to convince voters that Public Education is a failure so people can have the state/fed gov't pay for their kids private education. This is not a rant! This is the actual reason for NCLB, etc.

Only? I'm sure if I spent some time on it I could come up with others

It means exactly what it says: Americans, particularly white and middle to upper class have privlege, renounce that it the same way Jesus told the Rich Young Ruler to give away all he had to the poor then follow him.