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thormas

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Everything posted by thormas

  1. I don't think prophets knew what was to come or how things were going to unfold. Texts were written after the fact and the prophecy was placed on the lips of the prophets.
  2. It's not this: "he would have known what was to come and how things were going to unfold."
  3. I think, as did the early Christians, that he was 'exalted' by God and thereafter their devotion to him was as Lord and Messiah (Christ). If Jesus knew what you say he knew, he simply wasn't like us, he was not human as we are and all (salvation) is for naught. Actually the earliest Christians and Paul were all apocalypticists and it was the later gospels, living when the Kingdom had been delayed for decade upon decade, that began to soften the apocalypticism of Jesus.
  4. And now the trumpster says all he know is that the crazy QAnon like him and he appreciates it. I bet he thinks these crazies are 'fine people' just like the white supremacist groups.
  5. You've hit the nail on the head Elen!!!!!
  6. Still, it is two different points: Jesus did believe in a physical Kingdom that was to be solely established by God, this was the apocalyptic hope of Jews at that time. When time kept marching on, the early Christians began to rethink the Kingdom till we arrived at John's Gospel. Thereafter we think of it as a spiritual Kingdom that dawned in Jesus and continues in each of us.
  7. As Paul said, not all have that opportunity and of course you were not impacted by systematic racism. Nor were you more prone to suffer health issues (including the present pandemic) as are minority citizens.....in spite of the health clinics the poor can go to after they stop at the thrift shop. It is interesting that those who are not or no longer poor romanticize being poor (happiest people) although it is also interesting that those who are actually in poverty would prefer to be anyplace else (the kids might not know they are poor but the single mother or the mother and father are acu
  8. This is exactly the case Paul. And the idea that the poor in the US are not really poor or that being poor in the US is a 'relative' thing, given the poverty through the world, is a typical republican canard.
  9. Thought it might have been something like that. You thought it was from Mark, I couldn't remember and and I simply gave the Erhman reference that I had previously made. Stay safe.
  10. Paul, I'm not even sure how Mark got in on this discussion, I quoted Ehrman on a parable that he said was abut the Gentiles and the Kingdom. I can't remember what gospel it was from of if I even mentioned a gospel. If I said Mark??? I was kidding about Paul, i.e. the saintly one, but I think you might not have considered fully what the prophets are saying. Before or after is the question: you appear sure, I am open to two possibilities. Moving on is fine.............
  11. Some of us are curious about the strangest things :+}
  12. Joseph, $24,239 for a family of 4 is doable with 2020 prices? Please! And compared to your situation as a kid, I guess but you must be talking COL in the late 40s and through the 50s. It was a different world. And it's not all in comparison to your situation.......plus you were not faced with ongoing systematic racism. And world comparisons are fine but let's just consider America (The USA) where perhaps we should be able to have less poor in such a country as ours (and not be a socialist state). We have all those programs you mentioned because .............so many people are
  13. I think there are two issues here. First, I agree with Joseph that the Kingdom is spiritual and can be experienced now. However, Ehrman is not 2nd guessing but has very carefully used his considerable knowledge of history, languages and the testaments to determine and provide 'evidence' that the historical Jesus was an apocalyptic prophet who fully expected the Kingdom's establishment to be imminent (in the 1st C CE, in the lifetime of his disciples) and believed it was to be physical: God's Kingdom establish here on earth and a new everything to follow. In addition, most critical b
  14. This is an opinion piece but based as best as possible on what happened. It is obvious from history that there was a global (Christian) mission and the question is was it in accordance with or was it a piece with or even did it grow from the mission and teachings of Jesus. I would say the answer is be Yes. Jesus' mission was to the Jews: he announced the imminent Kingdom, told the Jews to prepare and he instructed them in that preparation. Those who knew him best, his disciples (and a larger group that included women) said they experienced him alive after his death. They saw his r
  15. I quoted Ehrman who pointed to parable(s) of Jesus that spoke of the gentiles and the Kingdom - not sure off the top of my head which gospel but regardless Ehrman knows all the issue of later gospels and still pointed to these parables. You think I misread the prophets and I think you are so upset with the biblical Paul that you missed the entirety of what the prophets said (and what Jesus would have understood). That is the question: did the gentiles who flocked to the Jews for instruction do so before or after the destruction. That is the question. Two mind is a turn of phr
  16. Actually, I'm not as I still have lots of questions and have made no definitive conclusion - as if that is possible.
  17. I gave you the reference above. I don't disagree with you on 'their view' but they are also the ones relying the 'reported actions of Jesus.' However, it is Ehrman I referenced. Jesus being a Jew and a prophet must have known it was 'for all' but I recognize and have said that was not his focus. Actually the evidence from Israel and the prophets was that the Kingdom was for the Jews but would also include all who flocked to the Jews for instruction - so it was for more than the Jews it would seem. Jesus' invitation was only for the Jews and I agree God would deal with the
  18. Not ah! No I am presenting them and asking questions (speculating/ wondering) since I don't have definitive answers.
  19. Are there any such people in the gospels? And, if there are, same question: how does anyone know if it is historical or created? All your questions are speculative and there are no answers to my knowledge.
  20. Great question and I don't have a definitive answer. The question is always what did the writers and the audience (so to speak) believe? Who among those pagans in the synagogues would even know to raise the question? Who would actually know it went back to Jesus or not - even Mark was 40 years after the death of Jesus? Even the writers if they received information from oral or written sources, would they know? Certainly they knew if they arranged sayings or events in order to tell the story the writer intended but would even the writers question 'inherited' material?
  21. It seems with all gospel texts it has to be determined (if possible) if they go back to the historical Jesus or are created by the writers for theological reasons.
  22. I've seen her interviewed and heard excerpts on TV but reading about a known narcissist and sociopath, even from an expert, is not really of interest to me. Same with his ex-lawyer's book: I'll hear about it but have no interest in purchasing it as I might need to buy another biblical scholar's book to discuss with Paul.☺️
  23. No concessions........ I do like your attitude though.
  24. Well, although it is sometimes 'uncomfortable' it is also ok since I doubt you will concede 😋
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