soma

The Hindu scriptures are vast and very deep. They go into energy and the sub particles of it similar to Quantum physics, but they use symbolism, myth, philosophy, psychology and the metaphysics or science of that time to explain things in detail. There is something for everyone and people can choose what helps them and pass over what doesn't. They also have the limits of all the other religions where people exploit the system for their mental and physical benefit. The caste system is a good example of exploitation where it was originally a way to describe people's propensities, but was exploited to oppress and raise some castes over others. They have so many yogas not just the hatha yoga that is popular in the West. The four main paths of Yoga are : Karma Yoga, Bhakti Yoga, Raja Yoga, Jnana Yoga

In our endeavor to understand life we experiment externally, which is science in order to understand the laws of life internally, which is spirituality. It seems you are doing that and have observed the good and bad results so continue until your search takes you else where. May the force be with you.

I like what tariki said about male/female bathrooms, a great solution. I think the problem is that transgender individuals feel they will get beat up in a male bathroom so they do not feel safe and I can understand that with the hate and fear being spread by political parties and multi-media. In schools we already have many fights that corner individuals in the bathroom so why not have a safe place for males and females to answer nature's call without the potential to get in a fight. Girls also gang up on other girls so they would also be relieved to not meet up with a gang that opposes them.

When a country goes to war it is interesting how they play with virtue to get people to kill. They build up a momentum to get the country to back them and then they are exploited in the name of virtue. The Vietnam War is a good example. I was branded a bad guy, the enemy and a communist because I was against the war. They lied, gave me a record and tried to destroy my future in the name of virtue. The funny thing is I thought it was all done in vice.

Jack of Spades, one eyed Jack or two? I think virtue is a ladder that has many rungs organized according to the necessities and operative needs of an individual’s good will. The problem with having only one rung on the ladder is that it can be a virtue that becomes annoying as it undermines the other virtues from being developed and that single virtue in overflow can easily transform into a vice. People with only one virtue could easily think that everyone should be dressed in the same way, neglecting the other rungs on the ladder making it useless as they disguise their vice as a virtue. With only one we can’t recognize the other virtues that people possess so are inclined to see their imperfections or perceive their virtues as fake, which precipitates a dilemma where everyone is uncomfortable. A single virtue opens people up for people to take in them in, in order to mislead and betray their good nature so they become rigid and fanatical about converting people to their way of life. Everyone has virtues even our enemies have these good qualities, but not everyone wants to see them, being a conservative and being a liberal is a virtue, but they are demonized by the other side. One virtue can get lost in self-interest, but when we cultivate other people’s virtues in them they are respected and begin to mature in our own being, then and there we take in joy and get a glimpse of what virtue is all about.

Watching my Dad transition to another state I observed as he forgave himself as my mother forgave herself and found peace when she died a little while ago. It seemed like they were uninstalling viruses that they picked up in life. Which is a lesson for me to drop attachments that I have picked up that keep me from true freedom and the joy that goes with it. My father was a professional athlete and had to quit because of an injure, which at that time a part of the game of baseball was to deliberately throw at the batter for physiological reasons. My dad was very frustrated and took it out on the first two kids, but he learned and got better especially with the last six. I was kicked out of the family and disowned in High School, but I didn't have to forgive them because it was the best thing that happened to me and started my journey around the world and into myself. I realized they had their learning experiences and I have mine that I have to go through and there were paths we traveled together, broke off on different journeys and then returned for awhile. My wife when we were spotted in the vegetable market together was pressured with guilt and other means to not see me, but having to go through it myself I told her it was something only she could decide. She was also kicked out and disowned, but I observed her bloom into a great wife and mother for that experience. We both loved our families very much and like a crab once it attaches to something with its claw will not let go and sometimes will lose a claw rather than drop what is in its grasp. I came back to my parent's city to resolve any issues remaining before they died. I really did not have any and still loved them, but I feel they dropped the guilt and we just relaxed together as they transitioned. I really don't think we can teach anyone anything, just point and set an environment for people to discover for themselves what they came to planet earth to learn. When we die we will leave everything behind and transition to another reality probably not like our physical reality here where we oscillate between states of learning and clarity.

Jim there is a Zen story of the student having tea with his teacher, but when the teacher was pouring the tea he didn't stop. The student yelled stop you are pouring it all over the table. The teacher replied when your cup, your mind is full, you don't have room to learn anything. I am glad you enjoyed the post since your cup is running over with joy and you see joy in every situation.

Realspiritik thanks for the note, but we had to cancel because my dad died so we will go in the Fall and will be able to stay even longer. "The spiritual does not create the physical, it is the physical that creates the spiritual. Existence is 100% physical and 0% spiritual." Jim we can't prove there is a God and we can't prove there is not a God. The same with spirit or consciousness, I am talking from my experience with the consciousness within me and feel others have had similar experiences. I had many teachers from around the world that pointed to these experiences, but my main source to alter my consciousness to a very blissful state is Christ so I use Christian terminology to point to something that can't be proven. It obvious it does not point to happiness for you, but it does bring up some strong emotions and rightfully so as Christianity has been used to manipulate people for physical gain. Jesus is not the only teacher, there are many enlightened teachers all over the world past and present and we have some enlightened scientist. Max Planck a physicist said, “I regard consciousness as fundamental. I regard matter as derivative from consciousness. We cannot get behind consciousness. Everything that we talk about, everything that we regard as existing, postulates consciousness.” Planck has very serious science and with his research behind him he speculates with the philosophy of science. Many of his speculative ideas have been very influential to main stream physics. There are many theories, Penrose has a modern one that tries to manufacture consciousness from matter, which is very interesting and I agree with some of his points, but no one has yet to make consciousness appear from unconscious matter except by magic. We don’t get consciousness by just putting neurons together. David Chalmers says, “I am convinced that, no matter how detailed an account is provided of the neural processes that led to an action (say, a smile), that account will never explain where the feeling associated to that action (say, happiness) came from. No theory of the brain can explain why and how consciousness happens, if it assumes that consciousness is somehow created by some neural entity which is completely different in structure, function and behavior from our feelings. Similarly, if consciousness comes from a fundamental property of matter (from a property that is present in all matter starting from the most fundamental constituents), then, and only then, we can study why and how, under special circumstances, that property enables a particular configuration of matter (e.g., the brain) to exhibit "consciousness". The American physicist Henry Stapp holds that classical Physics cannot explain consciousness because it cannot explain how the whole can be more than the parts. Many neurobiologists reach the same conclusion that Physics can’t explain consciousness because it studies matter and does not study consciousness. This is Newton’s mechanical universe similar to Descartes duality of matter and spirit where science only studies matter.

tariki your preference is important because the president of the United States needs to interact, respect and be respected around the world, otherwise negotiation will be a lost art and war will dominate.

I would like to see Elizabeth Warren or Bernie Sanders be the running mate to keep Hillary honest. I went to Korea when they were a very poor country and a Coup de tat happened which restricted Korea with fear. I watched for 11 years as fear handcuffed the population and their creativity. Now, the rolls have changed and the US is handcuffed with fear and hate. Korea seems happier, freer and more creative. It started when the opposition leader who was jailed became president after two Generals left office.

Jim salutations to the Divinity within you and your pearls of wisdom. I like your irony it will fit in with the Zen koans. There are people who go to church, temple and synagogue and people who never go to these institutions, but either way, they live in such a way that they have love and compassion. I also think worshiping the institution is idolatry.

Annie welcome back and I am happy your life is filling up as you imagined. I also retired and have filled up my schedule already: traveling, fixing up my house to sell, staining cupboards, painting, changing door knobs, screens and the list goes on. I try to write and rest in the ground of being like Derek just taking things as they come and contributing where I can. The other day at the gym I was meditating in the sauna and when I opened my eyes, there was this 84 year old man with long white hair and long beard, I really didn't recognize him, but said "Crazy Bob". He looked startled so I said his formal name first and last and the name I had 45 years ago when I met him. He was in my yoga class at the prison and the first inmate released to a half-way house for prisoners that we started. I had a health food store and he use to organize concerts so the store promoted them until our roads separated and then suddenly came back. Time is linear on the physical plane, but multidimensional when we realized we never left in the first place.

Jim I agree with you and I think your last sentence sums it up perfectly. I will just add that I think Jesus came to show us that we are divine beings with the infinite wisdom within in order to find our way out of the lower dimensions of slower frequencies in the material world and their shadows of our insufficiency so we can experience the living God in our higher consciousness. The journey begins with the deep observation of our thoughts, which ones to consider and which thoughts not to pay attention to on our way to the consistent happiness of our true being described as heaven on earth. We are only asked to leave in peace the lower level of mental programming that is keeping us down so the Divinity within can unfold a new life of awe and splendor that is all around us. This happiness is not based on our possessions, but the intuitive consciousness that tunes into and perfects our awareness in the spiritual experience deeper than the earthly deficiencies covering the divine treasure within. Christ is offering us an opportunity to connect with all humans in love, unity and compassion to expand our consciousness to the consciousness that is God the Father in everything and all things. I don't think Christ came establish the institution of Christianity, but to play a part spiritually so we attain immeasurable joy playing our part and being a factor in life. “There comes a time when the mind takes a higher plane of knowledge, but can never prove how it got there.” (Einstein)

Ministers take a two year course and start selling plots in heaven with talking and selling points. The followers of Jesus only had the experience because the resurrection and crucifixion had not happened yet.

Paul I see you point and agree. "To me it's pretty clear that Jesus wasn't considered a Christ, or Son of God when he was alive. This tradition/view developed some decades later and I would suggest was built upon over the next hundred or so years until the word of God was 'closed' with the last book being written (who knows what else was written but didn't make the cut)." I don't think Jesus preach about religion, but was trying to share a spiritual experience he was having, "I and the Quantum Unity are one". He said, "I and the Father are one" and also said, I am the truth,the way and the life. He didn't talk much so I think he was saying watch me, how I live my life and you will witness the truth within yourself, the light and your unique way as well.

Ed salutations to the Divinity within you. I am sure you will enjoy the diversity and different angles we look at almost every thing in Eternity.

I listen to an interview from a person who left London to give a talk in the US. They asked him how long the trip was and he replied I physically left London many hours ago, but really just left London when I landed in the US so I am present now.

"I certainly believe there is a transcendent More to reality. But, for me, that More is best understood and experienced by going deeper into reality, not by trying to escape it." Bill that was very clear and spoken like a true mystic. You are right there are many people spiritual and non spiritual people that have a superiority complex and that is what they have to work out to go deeper into reality. Once the surface is scratched we can see their charming personalities say all the right things, but they really don't care about what they are saying. There are also very simple people who live and breath what they believe in jail and free who can't put two words together, but are spiritual and non spiritual teachers. I chose Jesus as my spiritual director because he is for me the tangential point between the natural and supernatural, who showed me I can respect all dimensions without caring about the spin. He wants my feet planted firmly on the ground, but his teaching at the same time lifts me beyond differences so everything becomes a teacher.

Bill, Thank you for bringing up Paul Tillich and the Ground of Being, I think he was trying to bring the church up to date with the science at that time. Explaining that there is a ground beyond our individual ideas and beliefs, he is demonstrating that our ground of being is created and framed in a greater Ground of Being along with 8 billion other people. When we can no longer talk about it, we seem to meet in the playing field of peace, love and joy far away from the ideas that we label right and wrong. It is so easy to get caught up and attached to our own view of the world forgetting that it is only our way of seeing things or our opinion. The good thing is we are not locked inside our individual ground of being because when we look up to the sky we discover we are in the midst of a dependable, responsible universe that responds to our needs and aspirations. In our own minds we trap ourselves in an inescapable tunnel of dark and limited ideas refusing to open our eyes and turning our backs to the expanse of space and the creations around us. Relief from our disturbances, disappointments and irritations seem to come in the paradoxes and uncertainty that percolates up from deep within our individual ground of being, I like to call the soul. It might happen at our child’s birthday party, a ritual, sunset or another form of surrender to something greater than our tyrant of reason. The remedy does not really matter as long as it frees us from the confines of our limited thinking because we can’t create a new reality with the same ideas that limited our experience. The Theoretical Quantum Physicist Amit Goswami said that for many years quantum physics had been giving indications that there are levels of reality other than the material level. String theory’s view of the fundamental nature of matter differs significantly from that of traditional particle physics where the universe is more mechanical. According to string theory, the fundamental objects underlying all matter are strings of energy that cannot be seen vibrating in loops or segments. They are not made up of atoms, electrons, protons or quarks, but their oscillations and changeability are basic to them. This theory requires that we open up and accept the existence of more dimensions in the universe, a preternatural, supernatural Ground of Being where these strings of energy percolate up. This enchanting idea was also mentioned by Meister Eckhart who talks about God being a Ground of our Being surrounding and penetrating every being and thing, but is no-thing. It persists and is present whether the church approves of it not or whether we want to believe in one particular religious institution because while church attendance decreases, our spiritual yearning refuse to go away. … "It transcends both the drives of the nonrational unconsciousness and the structures of the rational conscious...the ecstatic character of faith does not exclude its rational character although it is not identical with it, and it includes nonrational strivings without being identical with them. 'Ecstasy' means 'standing outside of oneself' - without ceasing to be oneself - with all the elements which are united in the personal center." (Paul Tillich)

Roger "I just object when they decide that their God must be real for me." I don't think I ever said my God was real to you if the capitalization of God offends you sorry, but like you just did. I capitalize words that relate to it out of respect because some people expect it so I respect it. I am not so much into grammar as the concept being communicated. Roger, I like Bill’s suggestion to PM your email to anyone you would like to receive it. I feel reason and mysticism go hand in hand so the objective and the subjective help and support each other and I don’t think they need to be separated or divorced. An altering of consciousness or mystical experience is beyond human logic, language and reason so people can’t explain it anyway. I think Quantum Physics does the best job describing the unity of everything in a Quantum Soup. Feel free to remove the capitals if you wish like I said words words can't explain or convey the mystical experience if you capitalize them or not. Philosophy, Science and Theology attempt to shed light on principles that lie beneath, above or beyond our mind and senses and for some it is rubbish and for others it helps to clarify things. AAA has a twelve-step program with a set of guiding principles outlining a course of action for tackling problems including alcoholism and drug addiction that affect the mind which I think uses personal narratives to help people go beyond their present mental pattern. I know what my preferences are and it doesn’t really matter what anyone else uses to flourish as long as it doesn’t hurt others. “The most beautiful and most profound experience is the sensation of the mystical. It is the sower of all true science. He to whom this emotion is a stranger, who can no longer wonder and stand rapt in awe, is as good as dead. To know that what is impenetrable to us really exists, manifesting itself as the highest wisdom and the most radiant beauty which our dull faculties can comprehend only in their primitive forms - this knowledge, this feeling is at the center of true religiousness.” (Einstein) I feel we can use reason and mystical experience together to understand our existence and understand or expand our knowledge beyond our circle of influence where knowledge transforms into wisdom.

Modern physics is approaching the subject of the unified field objectively. The unified level of nature contains the potential and expressed values of natural form. The objective proof is expressed in the language of mathematical relationships between fundamental laws of nature while the subjective experience, which could be an interpretation, opinion or presentation on the subject, is valid for the individual if they have the experience. The unified field is studied objectively in science and referred to in Christianity subjectively as the Father, God, pure consciousness, love, Absolute, Supreme, First Cause ect,which is beyond our mental comprehension just like the unified field that is being studied objectively. It would have to contain and unite the observer, the observed and the act of observing. Christianity without science refers one to introspection to discover it, the problem is they dictate the truth instead of pointing to it and let people discover or not discover it. Roger you said, “I think that there is convincing evidence that Jesus called his listeners to be aware of and cherish their own blessing of spirituality, adding that part of respecting their own gift was recognizing the same gift in all others, which requires everyone to be actively responsive to the needs of others.” This is what I was referring to with phrases and quotes about the Divinity Within. The image of the Buddha on a mountain top meditating is a good image which also symbolizes the introspection that Jesus was pointing to, but in Asia the Buddhist do large amounts of social service selflessly so the image is not complete. “Love you neighbor as yourself” seems to start with loving the inner self and expressing it externally with your neighbor. “How can we know what anyone's "inner life" is like?” (Roger) We know the fruit that the tree produces. The roots reach deep within while the branches reach for the sky, but the proof is in the action or fruit that is produced. No one can prove God exist, but no one can prove that God does not exist. God is only a word, a sign, a symbol to use to talk about what is beyond the mind. Many people use the word to trick others especially when they pray externally for others to hear, but the proof is in the fruit, the actions that are produced. If people gain strength from meditation, prayer, silence or contemplation internally to serve and help others externally great, it doesn’t matter if there is a God or not. If they use the word God to incite violence, fear, hate and destruction than people need to speak out if they believe in God or not. There are atheists who serve more people and do more good with their humanism than Christians who stand on their soap boxes with tight fist screaming at the top of their lungs. I like the image of the Buddhist meditating on the mountain because it reminds me of the peace inside without this peace I would only be reacting and not serving the needs of others.

Yes, and the benefit of living the beatitudes is the peace that lies at the center, eye of the hurricane. The center that is inside everyone so we can access the peace within our self or seeing it in others.

I think we are all basically saying the same thing, but are getting lost in the narrow meanings of words. Rodge I like referring to individuals as unit consciousness, which can also be termed soul or Divinity within, and none of these words have a definite definition, but the meanings vary depending on the individual or time of day. I use the term Father, God, but also use the ocean of pure consciousness depending on what I am trying to express and which is easier for the subject being addressed . Bill for me, the historical Jesus does not hold that much importance so I don't really take part in those discussions what is important are the lessons that he communicated in his life style, sayings and inner life. I watched Christians tell the stories over and over as selling points expecting good things to happen, but they never or seldom applied the teachings so their consciousness, their awareness did not expand that much. What I like about the parables are the different mental intensities, heights and depths from which they can be viewed in our existence and it seems our inner source of fulfillment and serenity is discovered within them, hidden under the mundane energies of our everyday activities. Our thoughts being an inner undertaking that is influenced by our involvement in life and our reactions to it where the grosser levels of mental activity are stronger on the physical plane than the subtle layers underneath and refuse to let the subtle thoughts enter our consciousness. It is like being at a bar with blaring music, loud talking and a lot of background commotion where we have to raise our voices to be heard. The average levels of thinking have to become loud and unpleasant in order to be experienced; therefore, the inner source of our enjoyment, our subtle thoughts continue to be concealed and avoided as being mysterious. It is underneath the outer layer of our existence where I find the reality of life, the eternal truth and absolute freedom that I am searching for and even if we are not aware of it, it somehow radiates out through the confusion. I feel Jesus is a great guide for my inner exploration beyond the mind, but I acknowledge that their are so many guides on so many levels that one can learn from and many find their way without Jesus. The world rotates every 24 hours and revolves around the sun every year and stories about Jesus continue to draw our attention, but it is all external going around and around. The circumference seems to be constantly moving with activity, but deep within the center it all stops and relaxes in the peace and love that is everywhere. To me that is the proof, the core to what life is all about. Societies, cultures and communities raise great monuments, the grandest symbols to what their cultures value most highly and I respect and enjoy them as do others and this goes for the stories about Jesus. In religion it seems the symbols of God and Truth have become institutionalized which is good for a few, but for most of us it has only fossilized Truth and God so they don't live on their own; consequently, followers think they have to defend religion beating a dead horse into the ground. I feel as a Christian we are lucky to have a scripture that is not so much acting on facts, but as a record directing us inward to an experience with Christ that is beyond the mind. It starts out as a hypothesis that needs to be substantiated in the laboratory of our mind and if peace comes around, our intuition illuminates the path to new wisdom and understanding in the soul. We are not able to control everything that goes on outside so that is not where misery begins because it is an inside job where we control what goes on; consequently, the misfortune of life is not what happens to us, but what we let happen inside while we are living. No one can teach us to be spiritual because it grows from the inside similar to a towering tree where we can’t see the roots underground, underneath the surface where we are inspired to stand up and reach for happiness.

" I think the existence or non-existence of divinity is a matter of personal faith which can be testified to but cannot be offered as a universal truth for others. Traditional Christian churches, and you, seem to limit the discussion with an affirmation regarding the existence of divinity, and I think that's a false claim and a strategic mistake for the Christian church (and those who seek to preserve and strengthen it).Rodge The declining church attendance is declining more day by day and it is sad Christianity through the churches has become soulless and can no longer feed the Divinity within as Christ taught. If we are divorced from the spirit within then all we have are religious leaders who manipulate and abuse their authority, having been caught not following basic morality. The people accepting the Church as an infallible guide believe whatever the Church teaches and do what the church authorities tell them to do even when religious-based bad behavior is increasing. It is pitiful when those who claim to be religious fail to speak out against child abuse, women and minority discrimination supporting bullying tactics to humiliate people in hating others and different religions. Attacks on women’s rights, war, pushing for dogma in science classrooms and withholding medical care and food from the elderly, and poor in favor of tax breaks for the wealthy is not the Christianity that Jesus taught. A soulless church can't teach people how to get in touch with the Divinity within so it is no wonder that people are straying away from the church with nothing to offer and going back to God.

I think Jesus and the Beatitudes talk about the tree in our soul and it bears its fruit in our actions on the physical plane.“Judge a tree from its fruit, not from its leaves” (Euripides) The leaves take in energy to produce the fruit; therefore, in the winter there are no leaves, no blossoms and no fruit. Love is the energy that waters the seed within so it can become a tree and produce leaves that can accumulate the energy from the source to create blossoms and fruit to give to others. Education, religion, communities and belief help us to gather the fruit, but they are not the fruit. They are only a ladder so we don't have to throw rocks at the fruit, but today we see religion, communities and beliefs throwing the ladder at the fruit.