fatherman

As a kid, I think my concept of Sacred was something touched by God. I guess Sacred is a human concept. Isn't it something we recognize as having been touched by God. What hasn't been touched by God, though? We love to separate...sort.

I don't believe in coincidence. But I have been know to dabble in revisionism. Alien, I promised myself I would be patient about this extraordinary statement, but I see a whole 2 hours has gone by... Perhaps another day? I look forward to the privilege.

Welcome, Niemiec. Tell us about the FreeReformed Church of Poland.

I'm so glad you're here, Alien. I've always said that we need an 65-year-old ex-pat Brit around here. Haven't I always said that, Aletheia? I'm reading Borg's book and doing the Sunday School curriculum at my UMC right now. It gives me hope for Christianity and for Christianity's relationship to the world. Welcome. You will be a blessing to us, Alien. Fatherman

Szymon, I will offer my prayers immediately after this post. God be with you and with Peter.

I sent Rev. Rigby an email inviting him to join us in discussing his article. Jim, if you're out there, we'd love to here from you!

YES!!! This one is very nice. I have a strong emotionally response when I read it. The thought that humanity's concept of God (which might require a warehouse full of paper to contain) is still just a mere symbol...WOW! I'm overwhelmed with joy and awe when I think of how immense (infinite really) God truly must be. It's humbling also to think that a human understanding of God and God behavior might be likened to a dog's understanding of Humans and Human behavior. <<Hey! Fatherman's calling us all dogs! >> No no no! Think about it. How can something with a dog's brain understand a creature with a human brain? How can we with our human brain understand something with a God brain? Mmm....maybe we have more hope than dogs here. Thoughts

Oooo! That sounds nasty! Here's the challenge (as I see it) with many of my atheist and agnostic Christian friends (I have a surprising number of these). They're willing to come to the table, yes, but their not will to eat or drink <<totally unfair remark, fatherman>>. They're either worried that the food is poisoned or they just come because they like complaining about what's being served <<ooh, pretty harsh>>. I'm glad you're here brothers and sisters, but I challenge you take a little sip! Allow for the possibility that there is something in the Universe that is beyond our great body of science. Even Science leaves room for God. - Max Planck (April 23, 1858 – October 4, 1947) was one of the most important German physicists of the late 19th and early 20th century, winning the Nobel Prize in Physics in 1918; he is considered to be the inventor of quantum theory.) (yes I'm being intentionally provocative here! I want discussion, and I want it NOW!)

When I linked Rev. Rigby's page about his new member, I have to admit that I kind of skimmed some of it. I went back, however, and read it more thoroughly. Wow! Rev. Rigby has more to say here. He makes some pretty remarkable and provocative statements that are worth examining. What will progressive Christians do with our swampy core? Do we try to pretend it doesn't exist? Pretend we are not animal, emotional, instinctual? <<WARNING: the following question contains an assumption>> Is this why progressive Christianity is not more compelling? (plenty more material in there to discuss, no hurry)

What makes something Sacred?

I wonder if a relationship with Christ can transcend belief and become transformative in spite of the limitations of the believer. It's a nice sounding idea, but does it really hold up?

I conceived this topic last week before the forums went down. It also just happened to come up in my Sunday School class this past Sunday where we're study Borg's "The Heart of Christianity". A metaphor that we seemed to come to consensus on is: God is like the electrical current that flows through the circuits in your house. Always present, waiting for a circuit to be closed. When we flip a switch, then we get the benefit of it. We get turned on. That's when we wake up to the reality of God (sacred, divine, sanctuary). With practice and attention, we can flip the switch. Some places or experiences, however, are so powerful that our switches just automatically flip. These are sanctuaries and sacraments. Worship spaces, ancient life (tree groves), altars, mountains, waterfalls...weddings, births, communion, baptisms... these are powerful places and events where the veil is thin and we just can't help getting spiritually aroused.

My dad is a Presby pastor. He thought I'd be interested to know that a long-time progressive presby USA church in Austin, TX is under fire for admitting an atheist into membership. My first question was, did he make a profession of faith? To which he replied, Yes, but he's not required to profess a belief in the divinity of Christ only that he accepts Jesus Christ as his Lord and Savior (which can be done even without a belief in God). Here's Pastor Rigby's words on the subject: Why we let an atheist join our church

Welcome, Gnosteric! Feel free to get as gnostalgic as you like! (tee hee hee hee hee) Fatherman

Wikipedia on Sancturary Is the notion of Sanctuary still relevant to you? Is the Earth sacred enough that we don't need a Sanctuary? Or do we still need a place to remind us of the Sacred? Secondarily, what do you like your worship experience to be like? What does it mean to you?

I'm a movie nut. I cannot resist this topic. These are movies that never fail to make me laugh, cry, think, bite nails, get freaked out, smile, or just get plain geeky. It's not exhaustive, but it's good enough. It's a Wonderful Life To Kill a Mockingbird Jesus Christ Superstar Raising Arizona Rear Window North by Northwest Vertigo Halloween 1 and 2 Stand by Me Mary Poppins Willy Wonka and the Chocolate Factory (Gene Wilder) Young Frankenstein Kung Fu Hustle Sound of Music On Golden Pond Any Harry Potter (especially Azkaban) Any Star Wars Any Lord of the Rings Monsieur Abrahim The Grapes of Wrath West Side Story E.T. Napoleon Dynamite Dumb and Dumber

More good tree stuff. Excerpted from Autobiography of a Yogi

I have missed you so much. Welcome back! <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Don't encourage me. This site will turn into Fatherman's personal theological playground before you can say Panentheist!

"What being a Progressive Christian Means to Me" by Fatherman P-R-O-G-R-E-S-S-I-V-E P is for the Peace that ... (tee hee hee! ) Ok! OK! It means that I get to decide what I want to believe and on my own terms and in my own good time. If I want to weep and shout Amen at a Billy Graham sermon, I will! If I want watch Joel Osteen's message every week and accept Jesus as my Lord and Savior at the close of every broadcast, I can! If I want to attend a church that welcomes men that dress like women, women that dress like men, and pompous agnostic academics who would prefer to debate Christianity more than practice it, I WILL! If I want to be a pompous agnostic academic who would prefer to debate Christianity more than practice it, you bet I will! I'll pray in a lotus position, tip my hat to Buddha, use the same words and phrases as fundamentalists and mean the same thing but see it totally different. It means being Saved one day and being Lost the next and valuing both. Seriously, though. P is for the Peace.

Nice! Very professional!

Read it. Loved it. I'm not a Rice vampire fan, but I loved Cry to Heaven. This was very different, but in some ways not. The language is simple and childlike (in a prodigious Son of God sort of way!) probably to match the first-person narrative of little Jeshua himself. Other than some scenes of graphic violence, it is a book that could be appreciated and comprehended by older children (my eight-year-old daughter will probably read or listen to it). In these respects it's a far cry from Cry to Heaven. However, the same meticulous (even obsessive) attention to historical detail is present, although it is not overbearing. It is seamlessly woven into the narrative into a remarkably cohesive story, especially considering its diverse sources (and yes, to be sure, there is not an event, character, or description in this novel that does not seem to have a carefully researched source). It is also, like Cry to Heaven, full of emotion. The 7-8-year-old Jesus is both a child and a budding Christ and experiences his life in terms of powerful (even overwhelming) emotions and revelations. Don't let the simple narrative style fool you into thinking this is a simple, emotionally tame story. For me, this book was a truly unique experience the way Jesus Christ Superstar was for me in that it brings Jesus to us in flesh and blood (minus funky 70's rock riffs). However, it is truly unique in the level of intimacy it creates between the reader and the character of Jesus. If you're expecting a liberal or strictly historical approach to Christ and Divinity, however, you may be disappointed. Rice tells in her Author's Note of her journey from atheism back to Catholicism and Christian belief (worth reading). She fully asserts the unique divinity of Christ complete with virgin birth, heavenly hosts, healings, and other miraculous events. You will, however, enjoy Rice's focus on the Jewishness of Jesus. He is both every Rabbi's dream (and nightmare, given the much publicized nature of his birth). Ok, I'm gushing...enough. I'm with Aletheia....can't wait for the next installment!

An interesting note on "Eye for an Eye". My pastor presented that principle as progressive for its time. Hammurabi's Code (in which eye for an eye is reflected) was not meant to establish vengefulness , it was intended to establish balanced justice regardless of social standing, sex, or age. Crimes were being punished without regard to the nature of the crime and with partiality toward power structures. Jesus came to establish the Kingdom of God in which a man who is wronged should forgive 7 times 70, turn the other cheek, offer not just the coat but the shirt as well (pretty topsy turvy stuff!). So Eye for an Eye made retribution just and fair and Turn the Other Check rejects retribution altogether, making peace and forgiveness the premium. (I'm not sure I buy all this). Hmm....Jesus certainly also cared about justice. So how do we balance Justice with Forgive to achieve Peace. I'm thinking of the Reconcialation process in South Africa when a woman whose son was taken from her and murdered got to face the murderer and prescribe justice. She sentenced him to a year of (I'm probably getting the details wrong here) visiting her and helping her in the garden as her son would have done and then she embraced him. Is this how Justice meets Forgiveness? Radical, Christ-like, and dangerous as hell! No easy answers from this Jesus Christ guy.

Soma, I'm a big fan of the idea of Christ Consciousness. It may not necessarily be a Christian phrase (not really sure), but it certainly has a strong parallel in Christ's own proclamation that he is "The Way, the Truth, the Light" or the scriptural notice of "putting on Christ". To me, taking Christ's Way or putting on Christ is just another way of allowing the mind or consiousness of Christ grow in you. It's the mystic's way. You may even relate it to the process of being born again. Lee, I think the term Supernatural to refer to the miraculous nature of God and God-filled people is really kind of a misnomer. From the perspective of God being the living force flowing through and comprising all things, their is nothing that can or need be Super Natural. God is sufficient for all things, all occurences. Think about some of the things we take for granted as ordinary. Before its human conception, simple broadcoast radio would have been considered supernatural or miraculous. We'll never unlock all the secrets of the Universe. Semantics aside, saying their is nothing supernatural (miraculous) is like saying we (as a civilization) understand the Universe in its entirety and nothing else can possibly happen outside that understanding.

Just bought it a few weeks ago. I've only read a few chapters. Very interesting reading. I little fragmented, but not too bad. Reflects a Gnostic perspective for sure. Regardless of who wrote it, it is very old (perhaps 2nd century). Certainly has some unique perspectives.

Hey guys! Meek, your story really struck me. Emotion is energy that we create. Emotion strongly felt or expressed has the power to effect the world around us, especially other people. High frequency emotions like love, compassion, and joy can raise the energy in a room to the point that other folks become influenced by it. Strongly felt low frequency states can have the opposite effect on folks who's own level of positive energy is not strong enough to resist it's sway. Jesus was known to have caused miraculous events in the world around him by his mere presence, just as surely Hitler's presence must have caused destructive events. Test it out. Watch what happens the next to bummer-man or super-joy girl walks in the room!