October's Autumn

Then what is the point? You claim you want a discussion but when your point, taken to its logical conclusion falls apart, you simply refuse to discuss it? You can't blame God. It sounds like you are putting blinders on to reality. You can't have it both ways. God either killed her child or didn't save MOW's life. BTW, It is actually not uncommon at all for a car to be totaled and a person walk away unscratched. Modern cars are designed to protect their passengers.

Because then you have to explain the pregnant woman who was seriously injured in a car accident this week and her unborn child was killed... her fiance was also in the car, I'm not sure what his injuries were or what the drivers injuries were but where was God there? Why should one person be killed and another not? Pragmatics doesn't play a part in it. God doesn't kill some and maim others and protect others. What kind of god would that be? We don't "all know" it was God. It was not God it was physics. It is about where your body is and where the components of your car are and what protects you and what doesn't and how the car spins, how healthy your body is and how it is able to heal and/or protect itself.

No one complained about the first study where the heart patients were supposedly helped by the prayers... hmmm... seems the problem is with the end result itself. I personally don't believe God allows some people to live and others to die or be maimed in automobile accidents or other accidents or even by birth. It happens because of physics or disease or genetics. Miracles do happen but they are simply a label for when things don't go as planned in a good way versus a bad way. I don't believe God causes them to happen. It was Gideon who tested God with the cloth and the dew. Probably in the prophets of the Hebrew Bible.

I don't like McCain either. Now I know why

Thanks

Just to update: I signed a contract with San Bernardino City Unified School District starting in July. Don't know what grade or school yet but I'm thrilled and can hardly wait to get started!

yup. it was certainly a big chunk. Although the process started to really take form as an undergraduate it was Seminary which really separated me from those around me!

I think become progressives or liberals versus inherit it. Not to say that education of the children we do have/adopt is not important but it is really something one comes to through process not something that is as much passed on.

Depends on the topic. John and Luke more strongly illustrate Jesus' message of equality for women.

I wish I could watch the skating w/o the commentary. One guy in particular was very annoying and I wanted to introduce him to a ball-gag! Can I mute the speaker and not the music?

awww... you stole mine! Life of Brian (my husband corrected me!) I was thinking Last Temptation but it starts out by basically saying it has really nothing to do with the Bible (can't remember the actual disclaimer but do remember wondering what all the hoopla was about when it started out that way). hmmm... I don't think there is a a movie out that would be a Progressive view of Jesus.

Have you seen the UCC commercial? www.ucc.org

It is part of the grieving process. It is also part of separating oneself from a former identity. I could be wrong, but I don't think too many people who were "born" progressive do that. It primarily comes from those of us who have been there, done that, didn't care for and walked a very difficult and painful path to get out (a path that is still not finished).

not to derail the conversation but this is part of the reason I'm a Unitarian

http://www.uscj.org/index1.html http://rj.org/ http://www.jrf.org/ These are three websites where you should be able to find congregations. I went to a liberal Conservative congregation. Don't let the "conservative" fool you, they can be very progressive! However, you might find the reform and reconstructionist congregations more comfortable as a non-Jew. For the UCC the web address is www.ucc.org and you should be able to find a congregation or two for things like Ash Wednesday, etc. You already have some awesome ideas for what to do during the holiday. Thankfully, I live far away from my family so it isn't an issue for me, plus I'm involved in a UCC church. I've already volunteered to work in the nursery for the Easter Sunday service since Easter really isn't my holiday! You can also get together with friends and have your own Passover celebration!

Funny on the comment about the slave trader being a wretch Well, not funny because it is a horrible, nasty, evil activity... anyhow... I just spent the weekend with High Schools students cabin camping in the mountains and we share the experience with the DOC who are more conservative. Anyhow, they sang the amazing grace song in the old way and I still think the wretch part ruins the song. I did notice in the UCC camp program it changes it I can't remember what to, but not derogatory. There was another one that would have been awesome had it not been for the "I don't know why" of why God loves us. Well, duh! God created us (or so Christian theology goes -even if not taken literally) so of course God loves us! *sigh* SOme great songs made messy!

Like I said it is my experience. And the most common response to why not believe in God/Jesus/Church when is usually the "you'll go to hell if you don't!" You may have a different experience, but this is my experience.

My experience is most of them are quite comfortable with the simple answers and aren't willing to seek or have in interest in seeking truth. Try and tell them the truth? They just respond by telling you that you are going to hell

In the theological circles I've been in the contrast between orthopraxy and orthdoxy is the contrast between having to believe the "right things" vs. doing the "right things." Again, in the circles I've been in it is a contrast between reading the bible every day, praying before meals, having the right set of beliefs (anti-gay, anti-abortion, pro- death penalty, etc.) vs. advocating for the poor -- in all of its various forms, walking along side someone who is in emotional or physical pain (like hospice or helping people who are stricken with AIDS) or taking in a pregnant teen who has decided to have her baby but has been kicked out of her home. The emphasis is on being God or Jesus to those who are in need in just about any way you can think of. Cythia's definition is a more broad (and technically correct) definition. My use is more narrow as defined by above. For me it is the difference between the church I grew up in and the church I go to now.

Because the truth has to sought.

You originally said "there is truth in all religions and there are lies in all religions." When I inquired about how we distinguish between the two, you said "We can't. Nor are we meant to." It seems that you are asking us to be agnostic when it comes to others' religious claims, but not your own. No, I'm suggesting we all be humble and realize we could be wrong and others could be right and vice versa. I don't believe God is caught up in the orthodoxy but more concerned with the orthopraxy. But, isn't an objective knowledge indicated in your statements above? How else could one claim to know that "there is truth in all religions and there are lies in all religions"? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> It is a reasonable and logical conclusion.

My husband is big on logical fallacies. I explained to him the discussion, he said that the term (I knew there had to be one, but didn't know what it was) is called "straw man." Basically shooting down a psuedu-related point to say that the other point is wrong.

I wish it were true. Unfortunately attitude and prejudice (unlike wealth) do actually trickle down. People take there cues from The President and seem to think that behaving the way he behaves is acceptable.

I like that quote.

YES!