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Yvonne

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Everything posted by Yvonne

  1. First of all, I'm not talking about confronting every conservative and every conversation - I'm talking picking the "battles" as it were. Joseph, I can't help but notice that conservations (both political and religious) are extremely vocal about absolutely everything. And, like my dad always said "the squeaky wheel gets the oil". I feel, in certain personal situations, that in order to be true to who I am and my own spirituality it is vital that I speak up. I think too many times we (liberals, progressive, etc) tend to not speak up. I had been searching the Web for anything and everything
  2. First of all Raven, your posts always make me chuckle a little - you have a way with words. Secondly, and I'm sorry if this appears to be off topic, but the turn-the-other-check with a smile attitude is great and commendable. However, for me, I think that this "shut and smile" and not letting something get to us is why liberals, especially religious liberals, get overlooked, outshouted, outvoted. If we don't stand up and SAY something, no matter how much we live like Christians ought to live, I think we're doing outselves a disservice. After all, Jesus didn't turn away with a smile on h
  3. Oh yes, I have relatives like this - a whole LOT of relatives like this - not only are they border-line fundy's but they are rabid conservatives. Not only do I get preached it, I get badgered politically. I get plenty tired of it. Its horribly rude, not matter if one believes s/he is right. I finally told one person to stop talking politics and religion because we were never going to agree. The next time I saw him, he started in again - so I told him politiely if he wanted to have a dialogue, where we both get equal time and actually listen to one another, I would be happy to discuss it.
  4. Norm, You are correct, I didn't mean politics as you defined it. What I mean is (in the US anyway) the jockeying for position and power, the lies and half-truths, and the fact people like me cannot hope to understand all the garbage that muddies the water during election year. I do not like the current system of delegates and electoral votes. I do not like the way candidates hijack religion to appeal to a certain demographic. So in this sense, I think there needs to be a trifle bit more separation between "church and state". When we have become a country in which a Muslim can swear on
  5. I'm a little iffy about the question of religion and/or politics. For me, personally, I utterly thoroughly completely (!!) dislike politics. I know I have to be informed enough to make an intelligent reasoned choice when it comes time to vote. Otherwise, I'm not so sure politics and religion make very good bedfollows. As far as churches having or not having tax-exempt status, I would ask, does that mean there should be no exemptions for nonprofits? If so, well and good; if not, how does nonprofit get defined? I think a lot of liberals would shout rather loudly if their pet projects were
  6. I would love to see something like this addressing liberal, progressive issues of faith. However, in my limited experience, progressives seem to take a much quiter approach. I don't really see a lot of outreach from religious liberals of any ilk (at least in the my corner of the U.S.) And, from the posts here, I think that holds true for many places in the U.S. I would dearly love to do something like this from a progressive POV, but I'm not too sure how successful it would be. Maybe I'm just cynical.
  7. I think these are excellent discussion pionts - could this start a new topic?
  8. Exactly, they cared for one another, acting the way Jesus taught them to act. In "The Underground Church", Robin Meyer accuses Constantine of hijacking the church, and claims Constantine's reign was the worst thing to happen to Christianity. I'm pretty sure I can agree with that. When Christianity went from being this tight-knit non-violent, egalitarian community to a state religion (more or less), and bishops obtained more and more power and wealth, and "right belief" was paramount, we lost something - a lot of somethings.
  9. Orthodoxy - right belief Orrthopraxy - right practice. I like it when people accuse me of being unorthodox. That means my Christianity isn't bound up in 2000 years of change from the original followers of Jesus. It means I'm open-minded and think for myself. I have to admit to being a little bit proud of that. On the other hand, orthopraxy (would i say I'm orthoprax?) seems to made sense. If I practiced what the early Christians practices, I would be for non-violence and practice it, I would be for radical inclusiveness and practice it, I would be egalitarian (or, I suppose, so
  10. I have to agree 100% with Steve. Sacrifice as atonement just doesn't make sense to me. Like George, I too am a bit agnostic when it comes to Jesus' divinity and the whole resurrection thing - clearly something happened or we wouldn't be talking about it more than 2000 years later. I can't remember it it was Borg or Michael Morwood who said it, but I can think of Jesus as savior. Jesus saved the "masses" (that is, the poor and marginalized) by letting them know they were loved, that they mattered. I think this same message rings true today. Just my 2 cents worth.
  11. I believe that after death we retain some kind of awareness, anything else would (IMO) be complete annilation, Physicists claim that information can never be lost...so why can't we "exist" in a way that's a mystery? Paul, I think you said it very well indeed. Although I think God is "More" than the energy of the universe. I also think that the energy is a part of God.
  12. A great big giant huge "THANK YOU" to that who have registered and participated in the forum. Its kind of tough getting a forum off the ground without a ready-made member list!
  13. Today is day 2 of my umpteenth attempt to stop smoking. I am determined to succeed this time! Wish me luck, pray for me, hold me in your thoughts, or whatever works for you because I'm going to need all the support I can get!
  14. Dutch, I'm not sure if this is answering your question, but I think anytime I am confronted with someone who is represents something outside my experience, I try hard to understand, find common ground, and dialogue. Other than that, when I meet with someone who behaves in a way that is makes me uncomfortable I have to ask myself "Why?." What is it about this person that makes me uncomfortable? Can I learn something about myself? Does this person represent my anima or shadow? I agree completely with Armstrong's statement. I have tremendous respect for her.
  15. Good question! I think the one thing I learned that has been most helpful on my journey is that it is ok to question and doubt. Before, I always felt I had to believe everything the church taught (implicitly or explicitly) and was not allowed to question. Once I was free of that limiting belief in "The Church" and the church's authority, I began to grow. Sometimes the growth was painful, and sometimes I didn't like the answers to my questions, but rather that than stagnate.
  16. Well Norm, I don't think you're getting an answer, I like the ideas put forth in the original post, for the most part. But to address your question Norm, even though it wasn't directed toward me, I personally do not take every word ascribed to Jesus in the bible as fact. I think the earliest Christians had it right though - radically inclusive, egalitarian and a belief in Jesus as Lord (as opposed to Ceasar being Lord). I don't think the earliest Christians believed in Jesus' divinity.
  17. Friends, thank you so much for your touching comments. And, yes, I agree that it is in the way we live our lives that people come to understand what it means to be Christian. And yet...
  18. Joseph, Thanks so much for putting things in perspective. And you're absolutely right. My mother, who had a 6th grade education was my hero. She was the strongest person I knew, and gently cared for a huge family, foster children, and the elderly. I get that, I truly do. But here's what bothers me. The far right (ie fundamentalists) are extremely vocal about what they believe. I think it is appropriate for progressives to be a little more visible in what we do. Not to say we should go around bragging, absolutely not. Still, I never heard of Progressive Christianity until I stum
  19. Friends, As some of you are aware, I am working toward my MDiv and ordination in October. I have been reading and studying and learning 'til my heart and mind are full! Three books, especially, have touched me deeply: A Monk in the World, by Wayne Teasdale, The Underground Church by Robin Meyers, and The Heart of Christianity, by Marcus Borg. In these books, i have learned what makes a Christian. It isn't about doctrine, it isn't about us vs. them. It's about radical inclusiveness and taking only what we need so others have enough. It's about turning the other cheek and seeking
  20. George, you took the words right out of my mouth. It would be somewhat understandable if the post was made by a soldier - it wasn't. It was made by a woman whose spouse and children never wore a uniform. Yes, I am ashamed FOR the woman who posted it. She is, honestly, a nice Christian woman. What bugs me is, like George said, we are supposedly followers of Jesus, a man of non-violence in every form. I cannot accept such an aggressive - not to say violent - attitude from a fellow Christain. Period. You know, Joseph, sometimes I think you like to kind of twist words around. I se
  21. Here's the picture (profanity) http://zipmeme.com/meme/161710/
  22. Well, you are both far more generous than I am. I don't know, I still am ashamed of it. It's like "here we are, big bad Americans, and the rest of you can go to he--".
  23. I saw a picture posted on facebook today that offended me more than some soft porn pics I've seen. It was a picture of an American soldier in full gear kicking in a door. The caption read "Knock, Knock...Who's there?...America mother---!" I think this aggressive patriotism is nothing short of idolatry. When the country (dare I say empire?) becomes more important than anything else, it becomes our god. What's worse, the person who posted it constantly posts things about how Jesus loves us and angels and such. And she's certainly not alone. I don't understand that. I'm ashamed for the
  24. Thank you all for supporting me in my new endeavor. Hopefully this new forum will encourage interspiritual communication & etc.
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