Yvonne

I can't speak specifically about the Pauli Principal, but I am a big fan of quantum mechanics. I'm no expert for sure, but it fascinates me. The more I learn about the quantum world, the deeper my faith becomes. I, too, believe wholeheartedly that everything is connected to everything else. I don't think religion and science necessarily converge, but I do think science deepens that sense of awe and wonder. Thanks for sharing this!

My former fundy friends used to say that there would be a huge divide just before the "second coming". That good and evil would be much more pronounced and that there would be no middle ground - you were one or other. But never that the world would be at peace.

FWIW, I don't believe in heaven/hell or any variation thereof. Instead, I think our spirits or souls or what have you return to the Source (which I choose to name God). Because I cannot believe in total anniliation, we must, in some way retain some sort of self-awareness. If we lived our lives oblivious to the suffering ot others, if we chose NOT to love, or made "evil" (for lack of a better word) choices, I would think that we would be pretty darn uncomfortable exisiting in something that is defined by humans as "perfect love". As an inadequote example, most of us have done something we are not proud of at some point in our lives. What if that become known to everyone? The word "uncomfortable" doesn't begin to express how I would feel. Whether that makes sense or not is not the point, however. My point is, I cannot, will not, believe in a God that condemns, not give Jesus' messages.

I'm still not 100% convinced that empathy is on the rise. Yes, I agree in part with what Dutch and Joseph said, but I think some of it can be attributed to mass media, instant communication, and globlization. We are far more aware of what's going on around the planet than we have ever been. It seems there are more opportunities to be empathetic. I have to say Dutch, that I went away and reflected on this last night. Then, as I do quite often, watched "Into the Worm Hole" on the Science channel last night. My brain must have been lit up like a Christman tree because it really was a "religious experience". Science and religion, huh, who knew?

I have to agree with PaulS. I do not think in terms of atonement, but rather of "good news". I think Jesus' purpose was to spread the good news of our connectedness with God and with one another. In doing so, imo, he threatened that domination system PaulS mentioned and he got himself in big trouble with the local domination, i.e. the ruling temple authorities. It may have been Roman soldiers there at the cross, but it was the temple authorities (NOT "the Jews") who condemned Jesus.

I don't think anyone said anything about thinking of God as only feminine. What I'm saying is that, in using imagery or even metaphorical language, that it is acceptable and even, sometimes, even preferable, to use feminine language and imagery.

Dutch, That was wonderful! As someone who is has a religious experience watching "Nova", this really touched me and I will probably be using it in my preparation for meditation! I have to agree with Phil, however. I'm not too sure that humanity as a whole is evolving to empathy.

At one point in my past I was associated with a group of very progressive, liberal nuns (yes, there are such!). One of them had a beautiful plague with a woman holding a child. The way the paiinting was done, it gave a sense of being brought into the world, being nurtured. The writing said "And Woman said "This is my body". That has always touched me. I'm not one to associate a gender with God, but I think, in using imagery and symbols, it is important to keep ideas like this in mind. God brings us to life and nurtures us. Since I believe we literally "live in God", it's like a foetus lives in its mother. I love the imagery in the sacred feminine. And not just because I'm a woman! I think the imagery can be very beautiful and moving for anyone. Even in the RC church, so male dominated, Mary has very nearly become a sign of the sacred feminine. In the movie "Mists of Avalon", at the end, the priestess of the goddess temple, wihch is losing its identity in the wake of Christianity, points out that the goddess will never be forgotten as the scene depicts the nuns at the nearby abbey paying homage to Mary. I think it is vital that those who choose sacred imagery and symbols incorporate the feminine. The book of Wisdom often describes Wisdom as "she". Dutch, that poem/prayer really touched me. The discussion isn't quite what I expected it would be! I'm quite surprised that as yet no other women have offered any comments.

(I tried and failed to find a forum thread for links and resources so here goes.) Here is a relatively short, progressive, interspiritual Sunday morning teaching from Christ Enlight. I think most forum members will enjoy it as much as I do. Its on Sunday mornings at 10:00 http://www.blogtalkradio.com/cbergland

I recently started reading a book on feminism and the bible, though the content is much broader than some of the “feminist bible study” I've encountered before. The author (whose name I can't recall) makes some excellent points about educating women in the historical role of women in ancient religions and about some of the feminine symbols that the patriarchy of the traditional church has overlooked, downplayed, twisted, or simply ignored. There have been, and I believe still are, goddess cults (not using cult in the modern derogatory meaning). The book talks about the Shekinah or Sophia as the Wisdom of God being feminine. I have, since my 20's, always accepted Wisdom (as in God's Wisdom) begin feminine. What are your thoughts on the Divine Feminine?

I have been silent on this thus far, but I thougth I would share this video: http://now.msn.com/now/0428-savage-bible-speech.aspx I don't know how long the link will be viable.

Raven, This is a virtual hug [ ] for you. My thoughts and prayers are with you and your family.

Thanks for sharing that - I'm at a point in my journey where I do a lot of "pondering"...I have to really sit with a thought or a poem or a book for a good while before I can begin to process it. Maybe its a way for me to let my heart take it in, or maybe its just the slower way way my brain is working these days. Either way, I'm going to have to sit with that poem a while!

I made no claims of either its veracity or my own belief in it. However, these cures did not involve allergies, depression, or "minor" diseases and were examined carefully by doctors. As my niece would say "Just saying'" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lourdes_Medical_Bureau

I wanted to respond with something profound because your post profoundly touched me. Let me just say "wow!". I think its wonderful that you have found a "home" as Borg calls it.

I'll start by saying it was one scene in a movie. The scene in "Titanic" where the ship is sinking, people are dying, and the musicians set up on deck and start playing. Being a musician myself, that scene, in a way, epitomizes what it feels like when I play for funerals or Good Friday.

As a mental exercise, I think they were (are?) friends. I think Jesus is a friend to anyone who opposes violence and, to use Borg's phrase, "the dominace system".

Exactly what I was thinking. Raven, my thoughts and prayers are with you and your family. I know how difficult and challenging to our faith things like this can be. I believe, sometimes, its perfectly okay to "tell God" exactly how you feel about the situation. I have done that a few times, just said "God, I'm hurt (angry, scared...), and I don't understand why this is happening". I find it to be cathartic if nothing else.

Brian, First of all, welcome. I had a similar disaffection with the Roman Catholic church. I know how you feel. I'm glad you're here.

I like to use different translations as they allow me to look at texts in different ways I'm curious about this and might have to download. I can see some traditional & fundy churches having a field day with it!

Yeah, well, I "spoke" too soon. Its raining again. Still, its warmed up, and I'm glad about that! (sort of a silver lining person, aren't I?)

Today I'm glad about sunshine - we got desparately needed rain, now its nice to see sunshine.

Occasionally on BBC America we actually get the good shows! I'm definitely going to watch for this. It is my understanding that the very earliest Christian meetings took place in wealthy women's homes - they had homes large enough to accommodate groups of people and had the financial means to help feed them. Also, at least two of Paul's disciples were women who traveled and spoke in Paul's name. I would certainly like to know about women's roles in the early church. Thanks for posting this.

I think there are some important things to remember in answering the question: First of all, many of the Jesus' words as reported in the gospels were "put back in" so to speak - the gospels were written decades after the first Easter. I think the gospels writers, particularly the synoptic gospel writers, were hoping for and maybe anticipating a "new kind of Kingdom", the Kingdom of God as opposed to the kingdom of the Caesars, a kingdom of social justice perhaps. The other thing, I think the kingdom refers to both a governing system that was just and a metaphorical kingdom. In the book "Jesus Before Christianity" Albert Nolan, a South African priest (I think) does a beautiful job describing both "kingdoms, as does Borg in "Meeting Jesus Again for the First Time"

I'm re-reading Borg's 'Heart of Christianity' and he has some wonderful things about taking the bible as literal fact. He gives the example of a preacher who said he "walks with Jesus" and Borg asked: "So if I were to take a video of you walking down the street some day, i was would see Jesus, too?" He wasn't being unkind, he was just pointing out the difference between literal-factual "truth"' and metaphorical "truth". He has a nice chapter on this.