Yvonne

That's sounds great Paul - life's simple pleasures are still the best.

As part of my prepartion for (hopefully) being ordained, I'm reading Borg's & Crossan's book "The Last Week" In it, they use the phrase "transformative journey". I can't get the phrase and what it represents out of head. Mmm, could it be this journey toward ordination? [sardonic grin] BTW - its a really great book to use as a Holy Week meditation starter. I'm reading the day's happenings on the actual day, that is, Palm Sunday through Easter- and I can't wait for tomorrow's concluding chapter!

Tea - very well put. I'm beginning to agree. "Faith healing", I guess, need not be an either/or thing - either it's from a supernatural God who arbitrarily (sp?) decides to heal some and not others or its a fraud. Either it can be proved and repeated scientifically or its a fraud. As Hamlet tells Horatio: "There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio,Than are dreamt of in your philosophy."

Nice to hear from you again Wayseeker! And you took my words "right out of my mouth" so to speak. I just finished reading "The Last Week" by Crossan and Borg, and they, too, mention sacrifice as choosing to stand for something they believe in. Was Jesus' death foreseen as in "God ordained", or inevitable given his message and the political environment at the time? But that is for another thread.

That was my thought exactly.

I had very little sleep last night and my "silly gene" came out to play. Its so good to be able to laugh at myself!

Sorry Norm, I gave George your kudos. Sometimes I don't hit on all cylinders. and I love that episode of Seinfeld. Neon, true, but at the time of Jesus it seems faith healing was somewhat more common, or so I've read. I wish my "heart" wasn't so insistent that there "must" be something to all this, because my "head" says it just isn't so! Yet many, many Christians, and I'm not talking about just fundamentalists (or even just Christians, as far as that goes) study and use both Reiki and Chakra healing. Are they all frauds and taking advantage of others? I don't think so, I think some are very well meaning. The people present when my nephew was "healed" took no money and made no extraordinary claims.

George, excellent point. I have a theory that's sort of whacky and I won't share the details of it, but it has to do with the individual's mind, NOT another party acting as a conduit, nor God as a supernatural being intervening. My original question did not have so much to do with "faith healers" as it did faith healing. Anybody have any thoughts on Reiki healing or Chakras? They both seem (with a capital SEEM) to have some connection with faith healing.

Hello, I debated with myself over responding to this. I'm certainly no theologian, nor am I a mental health professional. But I've been there and bought the shirt, as the saying goes. When I read the accounts of Jesus in the gospels, what I feel is hope. Not a command to be what I'm unable to be, but the belief that God is right here, with me, IN me, in my failings, in my doubt, anger, and even in my smallness. God is also with that person I cannot love (no matter how hard I try). While I do try to increase my own love and compassion, I have let go of that self-loathing. I am what I am and I can only continue to try to improve.

That book was already on my read list, just moved it to the top! Thanks.

You raise some valid points, Paul. I would agree that the hope of - or the psychosomatic effects of - s-called faith healing can have detrimental effects, especially on the gullible. And, even for the not-so-gullible. In the past, I heart that my inabililty to "be healed" was because I didn't have enough faith and wasn't "claiming the healing with all my heart". (Obviously, I no longer belong to that particular congregation.) I have taken all your thoughtful comments to heart and thank you all for your contributions. I really have decided that it isn't important what happened, just that it happened. Unless of course it was related to what happens in spontaneous remission in cancer patients, and that the disease and/or its symptoms return. But only time will tell that. I just hope my nephew contines with his doctor visits. After all, healing or no healing, I still have faith in science and doctors (at least partially!)

Perhaps I ought to take my own advice and simply let a mystery be a mystery. I guess there are things that simply have no immediate explanation. On the other hand, maybe I'm jealous because I'm in desparate need of physical healing myself. *sigh*

Neon, Paul, George, normally I would have agreed 100%. Now I don't know what to think. My nephew's illness was anything but psychosomatic. I forget what its called, its rare, its genetic, but it begins manifesting in the skin and eventually leads to heart failure - his father had it, his brothers have it, and one brother died of it. He went hiking today for the first time since the disease manifested more than 10 years ago. His feet have been raw hunks of flesh with sheets of skin hanging off (sorry to be so graphic), and now they appear normal. I'm still skeptical, but I'm happy for him that (at least for now), he's free from the pain.

Crabfest sounds like it should be my personal favorite festival! Me? Today I'm studying and getting my thoughts together for the first of many scholarly papers (??) for my MDiv. The only problem is, when I read, I mentally glom onto a detail and pursue it until I'm far off track. Then I have to pull up my mental reins and get back to the original topic. I'm learning a lot, but not really achieving a specific goal: i.e. finishing the book and completing the paper.

What is your opinion on faith healing? The reason I ask is because my niece's husband claims to have had one. He has a genetic disease that causes all kinds of health problems, the most obvious (though not the worst) concerns his feet - the skin is literally peeling off all the time. He went to a faith healing and claims he was healed. I personally have not witnessed it, but two people, my sister (who tends to blow thing out or proportion) and my other niece (who is extremely practical) claim to have seen his feet and claim they are completely healed. I cannot believe that God heals some people and not others. On the other hand, it would be really great if my nephew-by-marriage were healed. I just really don't know what to think. There are a lot of unexplained things in the world, and I'm open-minded enough to wonder at mystery. What do you think?

I was having a quiet moment for prayer - and ended up in a marathon nap! Aaaah. Don't know how much good it did my for my spiritual life, but I feel great!

Here's hoping it works out Jennell!

Just got word that one of my favorite cousins just died suddenly of a heart attack. That makes 6 family deaths in the last year and a half, inclulding my mom. I think that's enough for a very long while.

A link to a little light humorL http://www.strangecosmos.com/content/item/106133.html

"For those who believe, no proof is necessary. For those who don't believe, no proof is possible" - Stuart Chase I am willing to dialogue with anyone, When in respectful dialogue it is possible to make my point of view understood, even if it is not accepted. I am not, however, willing to debate with everyone. For those who are close-minded, debate is a waste of time because they will never ever cede a point and seldom even try to understand another POV.

I'm thinking you're glad THAT'S over!

Joseph - beautfully said - wish I had said it! But then, that's my ego-centeredness speaking...

I went away and thought about this question all day today. Several thoughts... I think the problem of poverty is so very overwhelming that most people think their donation won't make a difference, so why bother. That's what I THINK, whether that's completely true or not, well...The other thing is, no matter how many "children" are financially "adopted" through charitable organizations, the problem never seems to go away - again, IMO some people might think their donations won't make a difference. I also think that as a culture (in the US anyway, I can't speak for other cultures), we've become desensitized by the pictures of poor children on ads. And, which charity gets the money? Does it go to a charity that will help end AIDS in Africa, or go build better water systems, or to educate, or to feed, or any other myriad worthy charities? As I said, I give what I can, but there's only so much to give, and so many desparate causes to which to give the money. Lastly, how are to know how much who gives to whom?

Yes, one answer is education, I definitely agree. But not all. And I am NOT saying that the extreme poor have done anything to deserve it. However, I do think that some people make poor choices, some out of ignorance and some out of sheer willfulness. I am not being hard-hearted. I, too, do what I can to help. I do not think money is always the answer, either. Do we act like Jesus when we write a check for the poor but ignore our elderly neighbor who may need his lawn cut or the lady down the street who just wants somebody to visit? I think too many times we focus on the "big" things (like extreme poverty) and forget about the little things we can do right in our own neighborhoods. Again, I'm not saying we shoudn't write the check, just that money is not always answer. Growing up Catholic, I learned the "corporal works of mercy", and the "spiritual works of mercy. Included in these are visiting the sick and giving comfort and instruction. (here are the links if you're interested: http://catholicmessage.blogspot.com/2007/03/corporal-works-of-mercy-and-crowds.html, http://www.secondexodus.com/html/catholicdefinitions/spiritualworksofmercy.htm) Since I have seldom had a lot of surplus, I used to feel wretched and guilty whenever I saw an ad of starving children. I have always given from what little surplus I had, but i always felt I should do more. At some point in the last year or so, I finally stopped feeling guilty. I believe that what Jesus asked others to do is to "embody God" to one another - no matter what that means. He forgave sinners, do we? He ate and drank with outcasts, do we? He spread the good news of our connectedness to God and one another, do we? I can't sell what I have and give it to the poor because I am sick disabled and live disability check to disability check. What I can do, however, is to show people -right here where I am - that God is present and active in all our lives. I like to think of this part of the prayer "St. Patrick's Breastplate" : "Christ in every ear that hears me, Christ in every eye that sees me, Christ in every mouth that speaks of me, Christ in every heart that thinks of me" I think if we keep this in mine, we will act as Jesus did.

At the tender age of 50-something, I am applying for seminary. I still cannot believe I'm doing this!