The Reality of Hell

[romansh]

1 hour ago, John Hunt said:

but I still have loads of cousins etc who are fundamentalist/charismatic

Interesting ... I get the sense the UK is increasingly secular. As the CofE goes into decline are would be church goers splitting between Evangelism and the secular? Growing up there Evangelism was not a major thing one would come across.

My wife and I had 45 years this year.

Sorry about your sister. 

[John Hunt]

10 hours ago, romansh said:

are would be church goers splitting between Evangelism and the secular?

England is one of the most secular countries in the west today, with around 30% saying they're "religious" in some form. Church going is around 5%. The mainstream churches have had very steep declines over the last few decades, evangelicals/charismatics etc have increased, though starting from a small base. 

[romansh]

I was trying to be suggestively diplomatic in noting a good many are in your family.  

[John Hunt]

14 hours ago, romansh said:

I was trying to be suggestively diplomatic in noting a good many are in your famil

Thanks Romansh. I seem to have had more than my fair share of them. Various uncles and aunts were evangelical ministers, deaconesses etc. My mother was Norwegian, and though her generation and above were v. Christian, all my cousins over there are entirely secular.

I think the Scandinavian countries have actually absorbed some of the best principles of the Old and New Testaments, in terms of a measure of social equality, support networks and safety nets, empathy, free health care etc...whilst abandoning the more noxious ones and the supernatural and creeds etc. 

[romansh]

6 hours ago, John Hunt said:

I think the Scandinavian countries have actually absorbed some of the best principles of the Old and New Testaments

Well I am not sure Scandinavians went and looked at the Bible and said these bits should work and those didn't. Probably looked at what wasn't working in their society and and tried something different. More based on desired outcomes rather than just desserts. 

We'll see how the experiment works out.

The problem with going to old religious doctrines for direction is that these doctrines are subject to interpretation. I think the secret is to try something and if it does not work understand the underlying structures to the failure and adjust your strategy. And if the strategy looks more like a dogma then there is a likely problem. It's also likely worth taking a look at the underlying structures if the strategy works.

[John Hunt]

13 minutes ago, romansh said:

Well I am not sure Scandinavians went and looked at the Bible and said these bits should work and those didn'

I didn't really mean that - just that they used to be overwhelmingly Christian countries; they didn't necessarily analyse what was going on, they didn't go to old doctrines for direction, they just said "there's too much ###### here we can't believe in any more."

And they haven't slipped (too far) into other ideologies, whether based on race, or gender, or caste, or nationalism, or means of production etc.

[PaulS]

On 12/11/2021 at 4:39 AM, John Hunt said:

I didn't really mean that - just that they used to be overwhelmingly Christian countries; they didn't necessarily analyse what was going on, they didn't go to old doctrines for direction, they just said "there's too much ###### here we can't believe in any more."

Interesting too that those countries frequently score the highest for the happiest countries in the world too! 

[Bill McNary]

If hell existed, it would break God’s heart. Hell is the antithesis of a loving God.

A loving God is there for every one of us, not just people that were able to pass the test. We are the ones who force others to pass a test, not God.

If you spend any amount of time trying to comprehend infinity and then think about how infinitesimal a human lifespan is in comparison, why is it reasonable to think that what happens in that blink of an eye determines our fate for eternity? How can God possibly hold people accountable for what they do in a lifetime that is cosmically insignificant?

Would God really set us up like that? Would a loving God place her children into a morass like our lives and hold us accountable? It is not logical. It’s not loving, and therefore, contradictory to God’s nature.

[PaulS]

On 6/12/2022 at 3:56 AM, Bill McNary said:

If hell existed, it would break God’s heart. Hell is the antithesis of a loving God.

A loving God is there for every one of us, not just people that were able to pass the test. We are the ones who force others to pass a test, not God.

If you spend any amount of time trying to comprehend infinity and then think about how infinitesimal a human lifespan is in comparison, why is it reasonable to think that what happens in that blink of an eye determines our fate for eternity? How can God possibly hold people accountable for what they do in a lifetime that is cosmically insignificant?

Would God really set us up like that? Would a loving God place her children into a morass like our lives and hold us accountable? It is not logical. It’s not loving, and therefore, contradictory to God’s nature.

But how would so many Christians be 'proved right' otherwise!   What I mean is, there seems to be a lot of Christians that want there to be a Hell to justify/legitimize their beliefs.  So sad really.