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Intelligence And Christianity


fatherman
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Fatherman, I juggle the same way you do by getting in one mode and then shifting focus to another, but life keeps me in the middle of the road. It reminds me of a story where the teacher was giving advice to his students and he told the complete opposite to another student in the sitting. When called on it, he said if a person is driving too far to the right I tell them to move to the left and if they are too far to the left I tell them to move to the right.

 

From your post you seem natural, balance and skilled so enjoy the balls while they are in the air, you seem harmonious with the different forces being thrown at you.

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I guess it's contextual for me. But what I'm lacking is the steadfastness of keeping that conscious contact with God. God Consciousness. There are different ways of doing that. I've experienced a metaphysical contact where I can actually feel God's presence in my consciousness. Meditation usually gets me there.

 

Then there's that consciousness of God, guide me in my handling of this situation. Give me the words to say. Give me the kindness and acceptance to love this person. Perhaps these are the same things, but they feel different.

 

Then there's understanding. There's the reading and the writing and discussion and the introspection. This shapes my understanding of God. Understanding can pave a way or block a way to God Consciousness.

 

So, I acknowledge the importance of the intellect in faith. And I bear no pride over trying to be more rounded spiritually. It's a choice that I've made that works for me. What concerns me is the rejection by many progessives of the emotional, spiritual, Biblical, metaphysical approaches to God. I've been criticized or even sneered at for this, and I have to confess that I'm holding on to some resentment. I feel out of place in my progressive faith community. I know that not all of these approaches work for everyone. But I'm no less a progressive for that path.

Edited by fatherman
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(snip)

 

Then there's understanding. There's the reading and the writing and discussion and the introspection. This shapes my understanding of God. Understanding can pave a way or block a way to God Consciousness.

 

So, I acknowledge the importance of the intellect in faith. What concerns me is the rejection by many progessives of the emotional, spiritual, Biblical, metaphysical approaches to God. In my limited exposure to Borg, I believe that he preached this more holistic approach to faith. I've been criticized for this, and I have to confess that I'm holding on to some resentment. I feel out of place in my progressive faith community.

 

Fatherman,

 

Perhaps you are trying too hard to understand God? To me, it is enough to know that that presence is inseparable from me . It runs through and animates me and all that is. That is all that i know. My intellect is limited and in awe and fails to grasp in words what i am experiencing. But to me, that is enough. As far as out of place goes, it seems to me, while we are moving, it is to be expected because we are all on a journey that returns to the same point but the paths are of a multitude beyond number.

 

Joseph

 

PS. I think Romansh said it well HERE.

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Fatherman you said earlier that the mind gets in you way. I also feel this as the mind is linear, we think we are doing many things at once, but in duality we are really doing them in a sequence one thing after another very quickly as the synapses fire very quickly. I think science helps us with the mind as it is an intellectual activity carried out to better understand the world and how nature works by direct observation of natural phenomena. It experiments with the natural world to gain information that we can organize in order to make better use of our resources and have a deeper familiarity with our existence. I feel our consciousness, which is beyond the mind helps us make up our own mind, to mold our will, in order to master our self and expand our perspective in the halographic universe or the supernatural by being happy and loving. The most genuine thing I fee being human can do on the physical plane is to feel this contentment, be calm and grateful because we have to be honest with ourself. For me to be greater than my pain I need to be able to discriminate between what is eternal and temporary in order to change the outcome of my life. We influence the world, our experience of life, and our perceptions with our thoughts in the same way that a quarrelsome person lives in a confrontational world and a loving person lives in a tender affectionate world. Spirituality, which as a Christian I would call Christian mysticism helps us to gain a new perspective on life where we experience spiritual bliss and draw it into our lives as we cherish our revelations, dreams and soul experiences. Other people get these experiences in other ways, it could be music, sports, philosophy, science or a combination and it doesn't matter if they can observe beyond the mind and if they can't because their dharma is to observe through the mind. Most people Christian, progressive or atheist don't understand my abstract, spiritual experiences and that is cool, I respect their position and hope they respect mine.

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Beautifully said, soma. Mystical experience and way of life is difficult to relate to others. I do not try. It is like dreams, it may only have meaning for the person experiencing them.

 

The mind works like a single processor computer as you've described: one instruction at a time in rapid succession. A computer processor works with a queue. The instructions in the queue is prioritized by importance and chronology, just as we do. We deal with the immediate needs first.

 

We are made to want to understand. That is something that makes us human, but there are plenty of things I know or experience which I do not understand; this phone that I am typing this post on, for example! Some do understand it, but I do need to understand how it is made to make use of it.

 

God is such. The difference is that no one designed God. God designed us! Which means that he understands us intimately.

 

The best we can do is have AN understanding of God. We will not likely have THE understanding of God.

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Fatherman I agree with you. My mind sees the halograph and can understand the science that every part of the halograph has the code for the whole halograph similar to our DNA, but to get a taste of the unity I need to go beyond the thinking mind. People watch movies, take drugs, drink, fall in love, and children spin around getting dizzy to alter their consciosness, we are fortunate if it happens naturally watching a sunset, meditating, playing sports, music or lost in contemplation taking us beyond the senses and observation.

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I guess it's contextual for me. But what I'm lacking is the steadfastness of keeping that conscious contact with God. God Consciousness. There are different ways of doing that. I've experienced a metaphysical contact where I can actually feel God's presence in my consciousness. Meditation usually gets me there.

 

Then there's that consciousness of God, guide me in my handling of this situation. Give me the words to say. Give me the kindness and acceptance to love this person. Perhaps these are the same things, but they feel different.

 

Building on what you and Soma have already said, David, there's diversity in our approaches to God (which is good) and diversity in our experiences (which is good) and many languages to use in connecting with God (which is good), yet the thing we most often need to help us better understand our own experience is mentorship. We need mentors, not to tell us what to do or how to do it, but to act as the safe haven where we can be honest with ourselves about our own questions and answers. It seems hard for us, as human beings, to be honest with ourselves. But conversation in a safe context can trigger the insights we've been struggling to accept (giving us that precious "aha -- now I get it" feeling).

 

Because the church has often been lacking in mentors, I think we sometimes turn to creative avenues such as film, fiction, poetry, sacred texts, mythology, pop psychology, and music to serve as a substitute for the personal relationship offered by a mentor. I'm not saying that film, fiction, and other creative avenues don't help. In fact, I know they do help us on the spiritual journey. But sometimes the imaginings of "God consciousness" are so . . . perfect . . . that they muddy the waters and create false, unrealistic expectations about what's actually possible for us as human beings.

 

For us as human beings, there are no limits to our ability to love fully and wholly, to forgive fully and wholly, to trust fully and wholly. But there are definitely limits to our ability to feel love and trust in the same way we feel it while in a mystical or contemplative state. Our brains aren't designed to allow us to live constantly in the quantum realm. Yes, many of us long to do it, because we sense it's our natural soul state, but it's not why we're here. We're here on Planet Earth because, as souls, we have questions -- big, big questions -- about the 3D universe of matter-with-mass, which is something we don't normally experience as persons-of-soul.

 

I have a wonderful connection with God the Mother and God the Father, a connection that's safe and trusting and whole, a connection I can open up at any time. But I can tell you for sure that my brain cannot maintain this state 24 hours per day. Nor is my brain supposed to be able to maintain this high energy state on an continuous basis. I touch base with God many times during the day, but most of the time, I have to use all my brain power to do a good job of loving and forgiving and trusting in ordinary 3D ways with family and work and letter-writing and housecleaning and cooking and going to the bank and being a normal human being.

 

It doesn't feel exactly the same as being in a quantum state, but it's a good way to feel. And it's okay with God, because God knows I'm trying as hard as I can to balance many competing needs to the best of my ability.

 

I know you already know this, but I'm affirming that your need to juggle and shift priorities -- and your inability to do "everything" at once -- is perfectly normal and natural as far as God is concerned.

 

Even Jesus came down from the Mount of Transfiguration and said "Okay, that was fun -- now back to being human and doing the best I can to help others."

 

Blessings,

Jen

 

 

Edited for typos and clarity.

Edited by Realspiritik
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Fatherman, you know the spaghetti and meatball test you mentioned for Italian restaurant authenticity? Souls who incarnate here as human beings come because they want to check out the famous 3D spaghetti and meatballs that aren't served in the "quantum buffet" at Home.

 

When in Rome, do as the Romans do!

Edited by Realspiritik
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Thanks, Jen. I may know these things, but it is so helpful to read your perspective on them. I write a blog called mywifesaysimcomplicated, because it's true. I've simply accepted it and owned it. That is the way God made me. We all have our wonderful complexities!

 

I'm blessed to have a two wonderful mentors: my sponsor and the pastor at the church I'm currently working. It's made a huge difference in my life. You are so right when you underscored the importance of that.

 

What's perplexing is that I know how to reach a quantum state, but I rarely do it. It's like the blind thirsty man who cannot see the water in front of him, and when he is given the water he drinks it down and no longer thirsts. And then his eyes are opened! And yet when he becomes thirsty again, he does not drink from the very cup he was given when he was blind.

 

It seems like a simple conundrum to solve, and yet I have not solved it. Perhaps I'm just too lazy and busy to drink it. That just doesn't make any sense, though!

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IMO, Jesus said that his followers would be known by their love. To me, this is compassion, a love that feels with another and works and acts to help where one can. Again IMO, not much intelligence is required to be compassionate. But empathy is.

 

I admit that I am ill-equipped to speak much about intelligence, having only a high school education. But I think there is a big difference between intelligence and wisdom. Intelligence is (put crudely and only in my understanding) how many facts you can learn and hold in your head. Wisdom is the ability to take whatever knowledge and experiences you have and weave them together into an attitude or life-style that benefits not only one's life, but the lives of others. I will pick learning from the wise over learning from the intelligent any day. Besides, I have a lot of trouble understanding the intelligent.

 

I doubt that intelligence always leads to compassion. It can often lead to pride. But wisdom, at its best, leads to life and love. That's what I think Christianity, at its best, also does.

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Hello featherman spiritik soma bill + + Hello & Nice to 'meet' you through the discussion.

It has prompted me to examine the nuances in meaning of the following words and how our understandings and use of them affects life.

 

know

understand

 

think

believe

decide

judge

 

opinion

idea

 

intelligent

wise

smart

 

As an intelligent species, we process, experience and are conditioned much through language. I look forward to communicating further!

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Letgo I like your name because it says it all. I agree with you about language. I lived in many countries and have noticed some languages do not have words that are present in other languages and they have a different takes on different concepts. Therefore, language express culture well, but can be limiting compared to direct experience.

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Intelligence, wisdom and compassion were never meant to be mutually exclusive, either in Christianity, or any other tradition, including secular

humanism. If you have all three, count your blessings, because it is rare. Intelligence gets you to the "ground" which is the door. Wisdom and compassion are learned through the path of love or suffering.

 

Steve

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