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Thoughts On Jesus


Realspiritik
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Hi Friends,

 

Jesus here again. I'm going to start a thread of my own. You're welcome to join in and ask as many questions as you want. I fact, I would love to field your inquiries. I'm sitting here "on the Other Side" twiddling my thumbs, so to speak. This is a paradigm shift. I'm one of the team members God has assigned to the paradigm shift. I'm the communications expert. I'm the angel assigned to this part of the world. The way I talk should (I hope) be easy to understand if you're a North American. The paradigm shift has other angels working in other parts of the world. Angels on the God Team want clarity.

 

Today, I talk about my time on the cross. Please bear in my mind, if you haven't read other things I've posted, I speak bluntly. It's who I am. Jen normally passes my thoughts through her brain and softens them. Today, you get pure me.

 

Don't freak, though. If you're a Progressive Christian, I think you'll like what I'm going to say.

 

First, the facts. Yes, I was a real, live human being. Yes, I was a teacher. Yes, I was a healer. Yes, I died on a cross, and lived to tell the tale. Yes, I taught the way to be a christ. Yes, I knew things about God that no one before me had taught. Yes, I'm still here to help. No, I am not the only son of God.

 

See? Not so bad after all. You get to keep the cross (sort of). You get to keep the message of what it means to be a christ yourself. You get to keep a God who loves you and believes in you. You get angels and miracles. You get divine intervention (very poorly understood, I'm sad to say). You get free will. You get individual identity as a human being. You get eternal life (well, that has nothing to do with being a Christian. Everybody on the planet gets eternal life.) You get equal rights for women and men. You get sensitive affirmation of your sexual orientation as a loving, monogamous adult. You get joy.

 

How's that? Anyone want to sign up for a partnership with God based on these few principles?

 

The biggest change I'll think you find is the loss of me, Jesus, as your personal saviour. Sorry, that just isn't going to wash with the God Team (or me) anymore. But you can keep me as your teacher and friend, if you want. I just can't be your saviour, because, in fact, you are your own personal saviour.

 

I understood, when I was pissed off as hell as I hung in agony on the cross, that the God Team had a bizarre purpose in mind for my suffering. Later, that wise choice became clear to me, not as a human, but as an angel. The past 2,000 years have shown me that wiser heads than mine on the angelic Team knew what they were doing when they asked me as a fully conscious christ-in-human-form if I would be willing to go through a trial of agony. They picked the cross. You know what happened -- I let myself be arrested and crucified. I could have walked away, but didn't. I put myself in angelic arms, and trusted with every shred of my heart and soul. God, I can't tell you how awful it was. But maybe you've been there yourself. Car accident? Chemo? A child dying before your eyes? The cross was punishing, but no more punishing than what many humans go through.

 

Okay -- so maybe the "living to tell the tale" part was a little off the beaten track of human experience. That's where my trust in God came in. I lived, not so that others would believe in me as their personal saviour, but so they would believe in the God I'd been teaching them about. You must remember (sorry if I offend anybody with what I'm about to say) that the religious traditions I was fighting against were deeply entrenched. Men ruled the theological roost. Patriarchal traditions dominated life in Mediterranean cultures. God didn't have a reputation as being either loving or forgiving. God looked damned grim to most people. There was Zeus. Mithras. Yahweh. A whole host of gods and goddesses ready to strike you dead in your boots. God as Dirty Harry: "Go ahead, make my day."

 

Enter me: God as tenderness. God as compassion. God as a Tough Love family of loving angels who help you if you're willing to help yourself (that's the free will part). God as a new entity called "Spirit" who's with you, and holding you, and loving you whether you accept this truth or not.

 

Everybody wanted to crucify me, literally and figuratively. I wasn't "special", however. I wasn't born a christ. I worked to become a christ-in-human-form. I tried to teach others how to be a christ-in-human-form, too. I didn't ask them to be like me. I asked them to be like themselves -- like their true angelic selves. I asked them to uncover their own Kingdom within, the Kingdom and power of their own perfect souls.

 

Are we cool? Can you deal with me, Jesus, as a teacher and mentor, but not a saviour? Can we be friends? I'm sick and tired of being on a pedestal. I just want to sing from the heart and laugh and play, like anybody else. Help me out here. Be your best self. Remember me as I really am, and I promise -- as you find the real me, you'll also be finding the real you.

 

My favourite saying? "God don't make no junk."

 

Love Jesus/ Jan. 8, 2005

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Guest God's Grace

:lol: Dear Jesus,

Finally a God Team member I can relate to! You write in a very refreshing and down-to-earth manner. You don't use double talk nor do I feel you have a hidden agenda other than enlightening us with the truth. You just say it as it is! It's time we all took responsibility for our actions here on this planet and stop expecting "one glorious entity" to save us. I have always known deep down that we were "all one and all equal"! If we could just accept and believe that we are all equally glorious and that we have just forgotten it would truly be a step in the right direction! Of course that would mean allot of emotional work on our part. Working towards something is harder than just expecting you God Guys to do it all for us.

It is amazing to me how the truth got so twisted. I got the thought today that just perhaps certain passages of the bible could be compared to an article in the National Enquirer and you know how reliable a source that is. At least the Enquirer is entertaining! So what exactly would you have liked the written words about you to say? What would your 10 Commandments be?

I have always loved the idea of a parnership with God rather than one of servitude with rules and laws that tell me that I just don't measure-up. Society has too many ways already to tell us that we are less than perfect and we need to improve our looks and pocketbooks just to be OK with ourselves. Yes I am a middle-aged women..need I say more? So it is nice to hear that I am already perfect in God's eyes and that with allot of hard work I too can be a God of "tenderness compassion and Tough Love". Sign me up!!

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So what exactly would you have liked the written words about you to say? What would your 10 Commandments be?

Hi God's Grace,

 

Good talking to you.

 

You wrote: "So what exactly would you have liked the written words about you to say? What would your 10 Commandments be?"

This feels like I'm being asked to write my own epitaph. But I like the question. It's fair. So I'll give it a shot.

 

If I could rewrite the New Testament, I'd be more honest with people. I think the friends who felt they should "add in" extra tidbits of "Messiah bloodline" to spice things up did the message a disservice. The message in itself was a great one. The gospel writers didn't need to add the "virgin birth" thing. They gilded the lily, so to speak.

 

I think they meant well. They thought it would help women and men feel more comfortable with the message if they included all the usual Messiah trimmings they were used to. They thought they should make me more than human. They didn't trust how strongly other people would resonate with the simple truth. They didn't, ultimately, trust in God enough. To be honest, they thought the story, plain and honest as it was, wasn't very God-like. They thought God should be all about spectacle, gold and riches, and prostrate worship. So they cooked it. After I was dead, my buddies got together and made a plan. They thought it would be a fitting and necessary epitaph for me if they posthumously named me King, Messiah, and Lord.

 

But I was only teacher, friend, healer, mentor, family man, friend, bereaved father, lonely "prophet".

 

Thanks for asking about the 10 Commandments. I know a lot of people think the 10 Commandments of Moses are fine. But, come on, is it necessary to tell a person not to murder? If you're connected to your heart and soul, you know that instinctively. If you're not connected to your heart and soul because of biological damage to your physical brain, then knowing the Commandments won't stop you from murdering. I offer history as proof.

 

I would re-write the Commandments to make them about the "glass half full" rather than the "glass half empty". Instead of emphasizing sin, harm, wrongdoing, and ignorance, I would choose to emphasize the innate goodness of all souls. I would encourage people to remind themselves each day they're loving, courageous, forgiving, and charitable when they choose to be. I would use "tender, compassionate, Tough Love", as you put it. I would use the carrot, rather than the stick.

 

I invite others on this site to contribute their own version of what the 10 Commandments might look like based on what they've learned about love. Go deep into your gut. Look around for your own love, courage, forgiveness, and service. Share with us what you know. This should be a team effort.

 

Looking forward to hearing from you.

 

Love Jesus

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Guest God's Grace

:rolleyes: Dear Jesus,

When you ask for the "glass half full' commanments I want to say we should honor and respect : our Creators, each other, our children, every living thing on this planet and the planet itself. We are not doing a very good job on any of these issues. We give rote prayer and then expect favors from God. We climb that corporate ladder at work and backstab just about anybody that gets in our way. We teach our children through our actions that money is more important than they are. We polute our earth, our waters and the very air we breathe. We treat the animals as if we are their lord and master and we kill them cruelly and waste way too much of the gifts they give us. I guess my commandments would be all about honoring and truly respecting all that we have been given to learn and grow with on this planet. We are so busy working, making money, and keeping up with the Jone's that we have forgotten the true values of life. I really believe we are here to learn to love the way our Creators do. We should not be putting money, status or our egos before our soul's need. What we need more than anything is to remember God's true Unconditional Love and to start practising it now!!

Love God's Grace

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When you ask for the "glass half full' commanments I want to say we should honor and respect : our Creators, each other, our children, every living thing on this planet and the planet itself. We are not doing a very good job on any of these issues. We give rote prayer and then expect favors from God. We climb that corporate ladder at work and backstab just about anybody that gets in our way. We teach our children through our actions that money is more important than they are. We polute our earth, our waters and the very air we breathe. We treat the animals as if we are their lord and master and we kill them cruelly and waste way too much of the gifts they give us. I guess my commandments would be all about honoring and truly respecting all that we have been given to learn and grow with on this planet. We are so busy working, making money, and keeping up with the Jone's that we have forgotten the true values of life. I really believe we are here to learn to love the way our Creators do. We should not be putting money, status or our egos before our soul's need. What we need more than anything is to remember God's true Unconditional Love and to start practising it now!!

Love God's Grace

Hi, God'sGrace,

 

Thanks. Love your thoughts.

 

I wish people would spend more time keeping up with the angels, and less time keeping up with the Jones's.

 

You're absolutely, dead on right -- we are here to love the way our Creators do. The good news? You can do it. You can love with unconditional love the way God the Mother and God the Father do.

 

Now, friends. What's next? You know the goal -- loving unconditionally. How do you did it?

 

Let's hear your ideas. What experiences in your life have brought you closer to unconditional love? How do you experience that glorious, life-infusing emotion?

 

Thoughts?

 

Love Jesus

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Guest God's Grace

;) Dear Jesus,

One of the things that has helped me most to learn unconditional love is to accept the fact that everything in my life has happened for a reason.

As a child I was emotionally, physically and sexually abused and for the longest time I struggled with the feeling of not being worthy of love, not even God's love because I did not trust God. Through my years of deep spiritual and emotional work I came to realize the truth....not only was I worthy of love but I could go one step further and forgive and love all those that hurt me. No it was not easy and I said forgive not condone..nobody ever has the right to hurt a child in the name of love. What I needed to do was step back from those that hurt me knowing that they were not loving and at the same time love and embrace them for the beautiful souls that they truly were.

You see I trust and know that at the soul level all we do is guide and love those that are in our care. My parents and family had signed up for a very tough life. They had to beat and abuse their children when all their true hearts wanted to do was love us. Their lives were just as traumatized as mine.They too needed healing but it would not be until they died early deaths from disease that their hearts would be healed.

I was the lucky one, I learned this lesson while I was still alive. Many people could look at my life and see a glass that was empty but I see it full to overbrimming.

A wise man recently said "God don't make no junk."..Well neither does God waste a second of our lives...there is always something loving to learn from every situation. I can now see opportunities for forgiveness and gratitude around every corner!!

It's not easy being a great parent when you have had a life filled to the brim with abuse. Abusive dysfunctional parents beget abusive dysfunctional children which grow up to be....Yeah you know the story. Our children need a legacy of Love not a legacy of abuse passed on generation after generation. Young people considering parenting NEED to clear their emotional slate and be fully balanced before they take on the challenge of raising children. We pass the buck and blame the teachers, the schools, the violence on TV..... but it is truly up to us. No child would ever mistake abuse for love if they truly knew what being loved felt like.

 

That little voice in my head has always said "You can do it the easy way or the hard way. But Baby you are going to do it!!" I guess I took the hard way! Sometimes God hits us over the head with an anvil to get our attention!!

:rolleyes: Love Grace

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Hi Grace,

 

You're a brave woman. Thank you for sharing your difficult life story.

 

Your message describes the core of the Way, the Truth, and the Life. You don't say how old your child/children are, but they're fortunate to have a mom who's trying with her will and her heart to break the old cycles of abuse. Thank you.

 

It saddens me to see people struggling to find the Way in words, philosophy, logic. The Way is about the heart. The Way is about taking the pain and finding meaning in it. The Way is about taking the lemons and finding your own perfect recipe to make the lemons into lemonade. The Way is about emotions -- uplifting, inspiring emotions. The Way is about relationships. If you look for the Way in your logical mind, you'll never find it. It's a feeling of wisdom -- emotional wisdom. If you can't deal honestly with your own emotions, you haven't found the Way. Thinking pure thoughts is the road to disconnection from the soul. Feeling pure feelings is the Way.

 

I deeply empathize with the ###### you went through. I had my own abuse issues to deal with before I could master my anger, my violent feelings towards my abuser, and my inability to forgive myself. I like the anvil you mention. My anvil rolled over the top of me like a Sherman tank.

 

You wrote:

it was not easy and I said forgive not condone..nobody ever has the right to hurt a child in the name of love. What I needed to do was step back from those that hurt me knowing that they were not loving and at the same time love and embrace them for the beautiful souls that they truly were.

 

I'm smiling. You've described what it feels like to be a christ. As a christ, you don't condone harm, or make excuses for it. You feel pain when you're harmed, yet as you draw in breath to say to the other, "No -- that's not good enough, you must make amends," you also draw in a healing breath of pure love for the other. Unconditional love. God's love. Your love. You accuse the ego while fully loving the soul.

 

Keep writing. I want to hear your story.

 

Love Jesus

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Guest God's Grace

:) Hey Guys Thanks for the loving words .

I am sure you do not need to hear more about my abuse...pick up any magazine or newspaper and you will easily find stories similar to mine. I am not special just one in a million or so souls that has chosen to learn about God's love in a difficult and violent manner.

Honestly I did not realize that I had any residual emotional problems until I was in my fourties..I realized that I had no true joy in my life and when I did have some it was very fleeting. Yeah I contemplated suicide almost yearly and used alcohol and food to keep my emotions buried down deep so that I could not feel them. I had a normal looking marriage. We had $$ in the bank and an early retirement planned. We were the Jone's that everybody else wanted to keep up to!!

I thought I had dealt with my childhood abuses...honesly I could rhyme off the words of love and forgiveness but I just did not feel them. I started reading many self help books about abuse and the brain and low and behold I had basically ever single symptom of Post Traumatic Stess and dissociation in the books. No wonder I felt nothing of any depth...as a child it was just too dangerous emotionally for me to feel my feelings...suffice it to say I tried to commit suicide at the early age of 10 and spent my early teens actually contemplating how to kill my father. Yup!!! So at some very eary point in my life I shut my feelings down ..distanced myself from my very strong feelings and just went through the motions of living. And I went through the motions of living for 40 odd years.

I decided that if I chose to put my feelings in deep freeze then I could choose to take them out.

Did I pray my way through this...NOPE. I talked to God expecting answers and day by day I got them. Books were pointed out to me as I perused the shelves in Chapters..messages came to me in dreams...I learned to trust that inner voice and eventually not only did I have a voice but a vision of some goodlooking invisible God Guy that was available any time of the day to help.

I knew I was not special...Heck I couldn't even get my Mother to tell me she loved me never mind expect the Big G to show up at my request.

Did I spend hours talking to this God Guy trying to find out the makings of the universe NOPE..I had emotional problems and I needed them fixed and that has always been my philosophy...I let the big stuff to the big thinkers!! Eventually I figured out that this Guy was my own personal Guide and that not only was he there on a 24/7 basis to help me but everybody on this planet has this same help available to them. Yup, I told you I am not special but I am very special to this God Guy because I am his work in progress. Also I knew this Guy was not Jesus...he was just to cute and endearing to be the Big J....and he did not talk in parables or hidden messages he just talked to me daily in layman's terms. Nobody every said in the bible the Jesus had great looks or even a great personality. Sorry Jesus.

So this I know for sure: We are all one, all part of the same God Team. No one of us is more loved then another And we are all deeply loved! We, each and every one of us can have a personal relationship with God all you need to do is ask. God is not on a pedestal, as a matter of fact God when you put God way above you as we have been doing it's very hard to look him/her squarely in the eyes and have a one-on-one conversation with them. If you expect parables and double talk or messages with hidden meanings you will get them..yes it took me years to learn to accept this fact. I had to let go of some magor beliefs about God and I had to reframe my thinking.

So now I can have a conversation with my own personal God Guy any time I choose. He guides me daily to make the most loving choices possible for everyone involved. When he says "No" to something then I just need to dig deeper and ask why. He has taught me that Tough Love is God's Unconditional Love. AND "Baby you can do it the easy way or the hard way. But you are going to do it!"

You see we each, everyone of us has our own personal God plan, no two are the same. No we can't all be Jesus but with a little help from a friend on high we can be like him. You know that old saying:If it looks like One, walks like One and talks like One then it is One.

Yup, and the God team has a sense of humor..Go Figure!!!

Love, God's Grace

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God's Grace, you wrote:

Yup, I told you I am not special but I am very special to this God Guy because I am his work in progress.

 

Hey Grace -- I sure know how you feel. You're awesome. Thanks so much for sharing. There's nothing like the feeling of acceptance and love that comes from an angelic guide who really "gets" you as a person, and wants to help you remember how to be your best self.

 

You wrote:

So now I can have a conversation with my own personal God Guy any time I choose. He guides me daily to make the most loving choices possible for everyone involved. When he says "No" to something then I just need to dig deeper and ask why. He has taught me that Tough Love is God's Unconditional Love. AND "Baby you can do it the easy way or the hard way. But you are going to do it!"

 

I almost fell off my chair when I read what you wrote. Maybe your God Guy and mine went to the same tough ass school for guardian angels. Sheesh. They just don't ever give up. Nag, nag, nag. Sometimes I think I'm living with Judge Judy. Of course, contrary to your comments about Jesus, my guy is actually pretty good looking.

 

Love Jen

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Guest God's Grace

:huh: Dear Big J,

How did I do it...?

Painfully, reluctantly, stubbornly!!

Yes I had honestly asked for help. I was willing to accept a miracle please!!! I did not know that the process involved years of hard work retraining my brain and feeling my feelings. I expected God to do all the hard work...wasn't that what we payed homage to God for???

It turned out that part of my 'healing package' or deal with God was that I was to learn about Who/What/Where God is.

Yeah I know I signed up for this but..all I really wanted was a biblical miracle!! Yes I wanted to be saved!! Actually God spent more time saving me from myself than anything else!

Sometimes it's hard for us to hear God's voice so my Guide suggested that we journal. He would pose a question and I would answer it to the best of my ability and then I would argue with him for days on end that "he was wrong' and "I was right"...sometimes it would take a whole journal..I'm not talking about a little diary sized book..we eventually started using huge wire-backed notebooks the kind that highschool kids buy that hold 3 subjects..we were going through 2-3 of these a month..yup!! My Guide would find them for me 1/2 price,on sale, which was great But I knew if we were buying them in bulk then we still had lots more work to do!!

Let it be said: I was a willing student(from time to time) because I wanted to be healed But I was not an easy student!!

Gradually, over months I actually started getting my feelings back. Feelings that had been too dangerous for me as a child to express. Anger came first. You see I had previously surmised that God did not "feel"...how could he/she feel and allow all this human suffering. So I took my anger out on God..I ranted, raved, swore...I did anything I could to get back at God for putting me through this emotional pain. I was not much good at begging or pleading, as a matter of fact I was called General Grace at the hospital where I worked. I could level any doctor in 10 minutes flat. I always hit below the belt emotionally. I actually took great pride in this ability...my parents had left me with one thing "I had no fear"!!

Yes I used this war tactic on God too. Eventually I realized that God did and always would outlast me. He never gave up And he always got the last word in! My guide took the habit of waking me in the middle of the night when I was half asleep and my defenses were down to "Talk at Me". He had to disengage by brain somehow so that I could actually hear him and rather then give me some dream I had to then later figure out he would just tell it to me staight. Sometimes I would still stubbornly argue with him when I got my faculties back in the morning othertimes I would just accept that he knew what he was saying.

Eventually, over time I started to feel shame, guilt, sadness as we worked through my emotional issues. You see I hadn't been a truly loving wife, mother or friend to anybody my whole life. It was physically impossible for me with a damaged brain and a busted heart. So as I retraced my life and actually "felt" the feelings that were missing I relived it all emotionally!! I felt the pain of the abuse I and my siblings had incurred and I cried. I cried for a childhood lost. I cried for my brothers' and sisters' physical and emotional pain and I cried for my parents.

Eventually I noticed that I could hear and then feel that someone else was crying too. He cried longer and harder than I did!! From that point on I "knew" God had feelings too. Yes it made me rethink the old theory of God sitting on his throne "weighing and judging souls" or God "sending plagues" or that there was a "firey hell and damnation" waiting for anybody!! God's heart just won't allow this!!!

God taught me about respect. He treated me as an equal. He never talked down to me. Yes he was persistent but he never got mad, angry or even. He used what he called the "tough love" model. If I balked at something he asked me to do, and I did continually, things just wouldn't go right in my life. I toyed with his methods for a while and actually tested my limits as a child would but he was uncanningly consistent. Good behaviour got me rewards and bad behaviour got me unpleasant experiences. He was trying to get me to comply!! On some days there was a "slim to none" chance of that!!

Over time I realized that I was going through the "surrendering to God" 101 course. I had to accept with all my heart that he knew more than I did And he was going to lead this process. He actually used the phrase "You can take a horse to water but you can't make her drink"!! Yes this was a very long process of trial and error for both of us. You see God knew all my possible choices in a matter But was always my choice to accept and move forward or refuse and stand still. Yup "Freewill" 101.

He also asked me to Trust in his abilities. He would give me tidbits of information about something that would be happening in my life, with an exact timeline and then just let it unfold. He never failed when he set up the parameters. But when I wanted something 'real bad' he would give me information that was always 'real wrong'. Yup, he proved to me that He set the pace in my life and that me having expectations of the outcome was just asking for failure. Yes God leads us!!

This was the "Surrendering your will to God" 101 course !!!

You can see by now that I am a kinda "hands on experience" type of woman. Just reading about God was not enough for me. I had to "Feel my way back to God"! But first and foremost God and I had to teamwork together to heal my brain and reopen my heart.

"Equality" 101 course. On a team we are all equal players But somebody has to lead or be in charge and I let him lead! I accepted the fact that just perhaps he knew where we were going with this experience and how best to get there. Ta Da!! I am presently a willing student!!

So now that my brain is fixed and my heart is open I am a fully functioning human being. I know I am deeply loved by God. I know I am an equal member of the God Team. I know I have Freewill and it is my choice to include God in my life or not. God can't intervene where God is not wanted.

I have learned many things from this experience... Trust, Faith, Patience, Equality, Non-judgement, Acceptance, Gratitude, Forgiveness....But mostly I have learned about LOVE!!!!

I hope this helps others. :lol:

Love Grace

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Hi Grace,

 

This is from Jen.

 

There's no emoticon for a "Hi 5" (High 5?), so I hope you can feel this one coming from me where you are. Jesus is so right. You totally rock. You blew me away with what you wrote. You're brave and funny and kind and honest. Really, really honest.

 

You and I started from opposite directions. You started out angry, fearless, and willing to "dish it back" to God. I started out unworthy, grovelling, and submissive -- a frequent by-product of being raised as a Christian.

 

Sadly, I recognize my original sense of grovelling in almost everybody else on this site.

 

It looks as if, while you were growing up, Grace, you somehow missed the part about original sin -- being less worthy than God. I was confirmed in the Anglican church (Episcopalean) when I was an adult, and at the time, the church I attended was still using the Book of Common Prayer. (A few years ago, the Anglican church in Canada brought in a new, more inclusive guide to service that's called the Book of Alternate Services). In the Communion service of the old BCP, there's a part that's engraved in my brain. It goes: "We are not worthy so much as to gather up the crumbs under thy table, O Lord."

 

Well . . . I believed this statement. I believed that God wanted me to get down on my knees and beg for forgiveness. That's what the Church and the Bible told me, after all. I thought I was supposed to believe them. Although I wasn't a regular attendee at church, and even though I didn't read the Bible at home, this core statement about my subservient relationship with God was almost unshakeable.

 

My spiritual journey began with questions to God like, "God, I know I'm unworthy, and I know I've made terrible, unforgiveable mistakes, but if you can spare a few minutes, do you think it might be possible for you to show me a way to make it up to you -- if it wouldn't be too much trouble?"

 

Humble was my middle name.

 

As I've mentioned elsewhere, I didn't know at the beginning of my journey what God had in store for me, anymore than you knew what your God Guide had in store for you.

 

For two years after I learned to channel my guardian angel, Tom (you know him as Jesus), I couldn't ditch this sense of unworthiness. I tried to dissolve my self identify. I gave away money, possessions, things that I imagined God wouldn't approve of. I made a total mess of my life. Meanwhile, Tom stood back and allowed me to experience the consequences of my choices. He didn't intervene with a miracle to help my financial situation. He didn't stop me from giving away possessions that had tremendous sentimental value to me. He didn't stop me when I got the ultra-ascetic notion that I should eat the humblest of plain food (unadorned rice, tofu, nuts, etc.) (see above -- "we are not worthy so much as to gather up the crumbs under thy table.") He let me hang myself with my own beliefs so I could see how awful I felt.

 

After two years, I woke up one day and realized there was something seriously wrong with this picture. I was doing everything I thought Jesus would have done (note -- Tom hadn't identified himself as Jesus yet). But my life sucked. Not only that, but I had to confess to myself that I absolutely loathed tofu and never wanted to consume another soya product again.

 

A short while later, Tom dropped the Jesus bombshell on me. That began my real journey -- my journey into the heart of God. I was taught by Jesus (through a series of painful but pretty indispensable experiences) that the last thing God wants us to do is get down on our knees and worship. God wants us to understand what partnership, teamwork, mutual respect, and unconditional love really mean.

 

As Kenny Rogers sang in The Gambler, "know when to hold, know when to fold." The church had taught me that the path to God meant "folding" -- giving in to a false belief that I wasn't worthy. Jesus taught me a different path -- the path of learning how to tell the difference between a hand that's a winner and a hand that's a loser. These days, I keep only the winning cards.

 

Love Jen

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This is a message to everyone who's been reading these posts.

 

You know, person to person, I don't get your reaction. I can understand your reluctance to believe me. I get that. Some weird chick from Canada pops up out of nowhere and starts posting messages channelled from Jesus. So when no one replied to the posts Jesus and I wrote, I thought, okay, it's just me. They're not ready for this. I have to prove myself. I'll be patient.

 

But then God's Grace showed up. She wrote with heartrending candour and humour. But her messages aligned with mine -- her ingenuous words are infused with her belief that our relationship with God is based on equality, not subservience. You stonewalled her, too.

 

So maybe it's not me.

 

I've extended myself as far as I can while still being able to respect myself.

 

Adios.

 

Jen and Jesus

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But her messages aligned with mine -- her ingenuous words are infused with her belief that our relationship with God is based on equality, not subservience. You stonewalled her, too.

I am a bit confused by your post. You seem to be saying that we have "stonewalled" the two of you because of your belief that "our relationship with God is based on equality, not subservience."

 

I want to say that people tend to respond to those things they resonate with or feel drawn to respond to. The two of you seemed to have formed a sense of connection on this thread. Not everyone will have that same sense of connection. Therefore, not everyone will respond to all posts. This does not equate to the act of "stonewalling." It's unfortunate that you feel stonewalled, but I don't see any external basis for that as I review this thread.

 

Therefore, I invite you to say more about why you feel stonewalled. I need some clarification to make more sense of your last post.

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Guest God's Grace

Dear XianAnarchist,

I think Jen was trying to find others that have experienced God in their lives just as I have. I practise daily coming from my heart and being the God Team member I know Jesus was. God is about the HEART..not debating memorized scriptures written 2000 years or so ago. Why live in the past. The last time they hung him on the cross...do you think he wants seconds?? If Jesus came back he would talk in our lingo and it's not unlikely to think that he would return as a woman. EQUALITY was his message!

If quoting scriptures has brought you real live "nearer to God" experiences then you should share them..enrich people with what you have learned...this is all I was trying to do. Jen was the only other person that had truly experienced God in her own way and it was great chatting with somebody who had been personally touched and was willing to share it.

Think outside the Book!!

God's Grace

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Thank you for your reply. It's certainly an important thing for people to speak up for others. But Jen had mentioned that she felt stonewalled, and I think that it is important for her to be allowed to speak to that personally. So, while I appreciate your comments, I still invite her offer her voice in this. Since only she can speak for her own emotions, I don't want her to feel silenced in any way.

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For what it's worth, I was following the thread with interest. I didn't have anything that seemed worth adding, but I appreciate and benefited from the ideas expressed. Sometimes people aren't stonewalling in reaction to a deep understanding/experience of God - - - sometimes it's awe or taking time to understand and appreciate. Sorry you felt stonewalled ...

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I'm new to the site, and have enjoyed many of the posts. I finally felt compelled to join in. In full disclosure, let me identify myself (which will be clear soon) as a "fundie" with regards to Jesus.

 

While I'm ok with being progressive with regard to methods, etc., being progressive with scripture is dangerous and warned against clearly in the Bible. In love, I must say there are several untruths about Jesus in this thread. Jesus was not/is not an angel, nor is he "equal" with us. Angels, and we, should fall down and worship Him. And He deserves all the worship he is given. He never turned away or dismissed those who worshipped Him as He walked the earth. If He didn't want it, he clearly would have told them to stop.

 

 

We also can not become "christs", and we cannot save ourselves. Our sin separates us from a Holy God. Jesus would never say He is not saviour--read John 3:16-18. He was SENT to save. Only the sacrifice of a perfect Lamb can pay the wages of that sin, which is death.

 

As we all search out ways to "progress" in our faith, we need to base it on something more than our feelings. Otherwise, you have your Jesus, I have mine, and another guy calls a piece of baloney "Jesus." Don't create a new "Jesus," fall down and worship Jesus as He is. He is definitely worthy!!

 

Love in Him

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Darby, I agree with you. I have come out of fundamentalism also and believe that there are too many scriptures pertaining to Jesus as savior to ignore or change the message. Now, I do believe that there are some inconsistancies in the Bible, but I haven't really come across anything that undermines Jesus' role in history.

 

OTOH, I do want to read some "new" (to me) authors that are able to shake the fundie shackles and really shed a different take on the Bible. Mostly curious now. I seem to need a new mindset in order to really enjoy the love of God as I need to. I think part of this goes way back for me tho and may need some other type of sorting thru!

 

But I am seeking and will continue to do so.

 

I do appreciate the fact that Jen could tell her story and has been able to forgive her past. I don't know if I could do that even tho we are instructed to!

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Seeking

 

I agree, forgiveness is probably the biggest challenge we have. Sometimes it's only because I remember how much He has forgiven me that I am able to forgive others.

 

Curious--what, or whom do you seek? I think it is very healthy to explore the Bible, wrestle with tough doctrine, etc. Basically, behave as the Bereans, who listened to Paul speak, and then went home every day and checked out what he said with the scriptures. And I also say challenge "fundies" or anyone with a distorted view of Jesus or the Bible. I would stop short, however, of looking for a "different take" on the Bible. Ask the Holy Spirit to reveal the truth as you are reading--that is one of His jobs! Take Jesus as you find Him in the Bible--including both the things you like about Him (love, service, compassion, etc.) as well as the things that might make you uncomfortable (his role as judge, the only way to the Father, etc.) I maintain it's not really our job to figure it out in a way that makes us comfortable, as much as accept Him as He is. He is God, we are not.

 

Hope you have a great weekend.

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darby, maybe I just didn't phrase that well. I would just like to hear how others interpret certain things in the Bible that I don't really understand. Some things are symbolic while others are not and some I am not so sure about. :blink:

 

I have been a Christian for many years, but need more depth than the same old tired phrases, ideas, etc.

 

Seeking

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This is meant very gently, so please take it as such.

 

The bible, in my mind, was inspired by God and gives us many truths. It has, however, had 2000 years and countless translations by people with less than Godly intentions and motives. Reading different translations can give you a sense of this and the difference it can make. For example, if you read "fear God" literally as we think of "fear" these days, you would understand something very different from the way most people read that (perhaps as respect, place first, love with all your heart, mind and strength).

 

I have found it very interesting to read some of the Nag Hamadi (sp?) documents, uncanonized gospels, and history of christianity. For me, it heightens my experience of and desire for a close personal connection with God, believing that that is the way to understanding. For others it is very threatening and can cause a crisis of faith. You have to take your own path.

 

I do enjoy this board. While we all ultimately walk this path alone, it is wonderful to find like-minded people to share the journey with. Thanks all.

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