tariki

Brent, really, my "good grief" regarding the number of world systems was about the inability of most us to communicate effectively here and now with those we profess to love. My poor mind seems to make leaps like this, and poses enough questions without seeking "answers" in revelations from the administrative headquarters of a time-space superuniverse presided over by a triumvirate of Ancients of Days. The answers are far closer to home. All the best

Can we imagine the relative insignificance of present day distinctions between the “eastern” and “western” thought processes? Yes I can, that's the point.

Brent has said.....The authors of the UPapers have described this as “autorevelation”, which emerges from within due to the work of the indwelling spirits of our First Source and Center. They also point out the fact of a distinction in divine revelations based upon the mechanics of existential emergence, if you will. Brent, re the above, how do you understand such "distinction", particularly in relation to the five of epochal significance.? Given that these five would seem to relate only to ideas one would more often than not associate only with "western" thought processes? But anyway, glad we are not far apart in spirit.

“There have been many events of religious revelation but only five of epochal significance.” (underline mine) Brent, I have a more existential approach to "revelation". It seems to me that the Catholic Theologian Hans Kung spoke correctly when he suggested that there could be no world peace without peace between the religions. And one of the heart warming things - at least for me - has been the progress made in this by various human beings, who have sought to cross the boundaries, in what has been referred to as Inter-spirituality Revelation, at least to me, is found in individual hearts as they respond to words and deeds throughout the world. When a human being reads "Thou art formless, your only form is our knowledge of You" (Vedas) and grows in tolerance, and deepens their own reluctance to create idols of the mind, "revelation" is working.....(Called upaya - "skilful means" - in the Buddhist tradition, the way Reality-as-is manifests for the good/enlightenment of all) And again, "Those who in faith worship any other God, because of their love they worship me" (Bhagavad Gita) can only reveal what is good to any human heart open to a God who IS "Love". In fact, revelation to me is person to person, and if we seek to dictate exactly where it is to be found, and has been found, then we are likely to miss it when it hits us in the face. And all this corresponds to the words of Jesus Himself, who spoke of a true prophet as one who is known by their "fruits" Fruits spoken of by St Paul as love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control My own knowledge of history shows that such fruits have been manifest in countless lives, of people of all faiths and some of none. They have never been restricted to those who have "responded" to certain epoch making revelations of "significance". Frankly, such have been more the genesis of discord in our world, as each revelation vies with another. So, O Saichi, what is your joy? This world of delusion is my joy! It contains the seeds of relishing the Dharma. Namu -amida- butsu is blooming everywhere!

Sorry Brent, each to their own I suppose. Great leaps forward? Things hidden from most of us, now revealed? The "most important" series ever? Not for me mate, sorry. 7 trillion other worlds like ours? Good grief!

As I see it, until truth/righteousness is written on our hearts, rather than on tablets of stone, then all our choices as well as all our righteousness will be "as filthy rags". Love God and do what you will, or "effortlessness" and "no striving". Pertinent the words from "The Book of Hours" (Merton) which capture the paradox of all this..... In a Zen koan someone said that an enlightened person is not one who seeks Buddha or finds Buddha, but simply an ordinary person who has nothing left to do. Yet stopping is not arriving. To stop is to stay a million miles from it and to do nothing is to miss it by a whole width of the universe. As for arriving, when you arrive you are ruined. Yet how close the solution is: how simple it would be to have nothing more to do if only - one had really nothing more to do. The one who is unripe cannot get there, no matter what they do or do not do. But the ripe fruit falls out of the tree without even thinking about it. Why? The one who is ripe discovers that there was never anything to be done from the very beginning.

From the OP:- Neither God nor anyone else has condemned them to this consequence they choose it freely, because they spent their lives choosing it freely here and now. Just as those who spend eternity with God in Joy chose to embrace Him here and now with the all the consequences that arise from that choice. I have many quibbles with this statement. First we have the "quibble" expressed by the poet R.S.Thomas... and one said speak to us of love and the preacher opened his mouth and the word God fell out so they tried again speak to us of God then but the preacher was silent reaching his arms out but the little children the ones with big bellies and bow legs that were like a razor shell were too weak to come So, there are many - far too many - who are "too weak to come", or to "choose" one way of the other. To involve ourselves in "rationality" here would be wrong - in my book. Fortunately the world is not "consistent" nor "rational" at its deepest ground. As has been said, the world can only be consistent without God. Mercy, grace., forgiveness have very little to do with "consistency"! Moving on to further "quibbles", there is the argument put forward by Thomas Talbot in his book "The Inescapable Love of God" in which he deals with the "free will" defence of hell.... Given that God wills the very best for us, and given that we would wish the very best for ourselves, the idea that any human being fully informed would choose anything else is inherently flawed and incoherent. And if not fully informed, then the free will defence is void. Again, we have the words of St Augustine....."You have made us for yourself, and we remain restless until we rest in you". So the only final resting place will be "in God". Until such time, we stay "on the move". "As swans that leave the lake, we leave home after home behind" (Dhammapada) P.S. In my haste ( ) I forgot to mention the simple point that we are chosen, we do not choose. Which opens another can of worms............

Paul, Wayne Teasdale says very early in his book that we are all mystics at heart, which for me explains just why, as Thomas Merton says, the problem of sanctity and salvation is in fact the problem of finding out who we are and of discovering our true selves.......... We can be whatever we like. We can be ourselves or not, as we please. We are at liberty to be real, or to be unreal. We may be true or false....(From "New Seeds of Contemplation") And it all seems to involve the paradox that though what we must be is what we are, again "how far have I to go to find You in Whom I haver already arrived!" Which all involves paradox and mystery, but also the very simple necessity of seeking to be totally honest with ourselves. As Shinran (one of the "founding fathers" of Shin - Pure Land - Buddhism) seems to have been, who saw and acknowledged, when close to death at the end of a long life, that he still did not know right from wrong, nor false from true, that he lacked even small love and small compassion, yet still enjoyed seeking to teach others out of pride......Yet, within such honesty, rather than getting out the sackcloth and ashes and whipping himself because of his "sin", simply recognised that just because such was so he was the supreme candidate for the boundless compassion of Reality-as-is, Amida. Such honesty, such a trust, turns rubble to gold!

I have been looking at a book by the Catholic Wayne Teasdale, called the "Mystic Heart". In it he speaks of various "guidelines" offered for consideration by those who would seek communion and co-operation ( as opposed to confrontation and assertion ) Guideline 1 :- The world religions bear witness of the Ultimate Reality to which they give various names: Brahman, Allah, (the) Absolute, God, Great Spirit." This guideline emphasises experience, not mere conception, for the basis of each Faith lies in the actual experience of these tradition's founders over the course of many centuries. Guideline 2 :- Ultimate Reality cannot be limited by any name or concept. Therefore our words, no matter how technical or precise, or specialized, are incapable of holding or conveying the Ultimate it its actual nature, yet our life and being are coordinated with it. Guideline 3:- Ultimate Reality is the ground of infinite potentiality and actualization. It is only by opening up to and integrating with the source that we awaken to who we actually are, which is hidden in the mystery of the source itself. Guideline 4:- Faith is opening, accepting, and responding to Ultimate Reality. Faith in this sense precedes every belief system. Therefore faith is a basic attitude of trust in the ultimate mystery behind existence; it is a gesture and stand of pure openess. Guideline 5:- The potential for human wholeness - or in other frames of reference, enlightenment, salvation, transformation, blessedness, nirvana - is present in every human person. We have - indeed we are - this potential for unlimited being because this mystical dimension is part of what makes us human. Guideline 6:- Ultimate Reality may be experienced not only through religious practices but also through nature, art, human relationships, and service to others. Therefore the Ultimate can be experienced in virtually anything. There is no place, no activity that restricts the divine. It is everywhere. Guideline 7:- As long as the human condition is experienced as separate from Ultimate Reality, it is subject to ignorance, illusion, weakness and suffering. When we live in separation and division, from ourselves and from others, we are out of touch with the way things really are. Guideline 8:- Disciplined practice is essential to the spiritual life; yet spiritual attainment is not the result of one's own efforts, but the result of the experience of oneness (unity) with Ultimate Reality. In other words, what transforms us is not what we do but our integration with what is. Prayer is communion with Reality. Just thought I would share.

When a holy man has reached the summit of two paths (meditative concentration and insight), he knows the truth and all his fetters fall away. Thomas Cleary comments that as well as "meditative concentration and insight", the two paths can also be understood as "knowledge and action", referring to the integration of perceptive and active facets of enlightenment. He who in this world has transcended the ties of both merit and demerit. Cleary:- to transcend merit and demerit does not mean to be inactive, but to pass beyond the state of expecting and demanding to be rewarded for virtue. As has been said......"They have their reward"!! And Cleary's final words, for the very last verse......."this is not the end of the Dhammapada. The Dhammapada is a wheel, not a line, Now go back to the "beginning".

So, the final chapter. Good to emphasise once again that here the definitions given for exactly what constitutes "holiness" was revolutionary at the time, a time when "holiness" was often identified purely with hereditary caste, virtually a state one was born into.

The Holy Man Exert yourself, O holy man! Cut off the stream (of craving), and discard sense desires. Knowing the destruction of all the conditioned things, become, O holy man, the knower of the Uncreated (Nibbana)! When a holy man has reached the summit of two paths (meditative concentration and insight), he knows the truth and all his fetters fall away. He for whom there is neither this shore nor the other shore, nor yet both, he who is free of cares and is unfettered — him do I call a holy man. He who is meditative, stainless and settled, whose work is done and who is free from cankers, having reached the highest goal — him do I call a holy man. The sun shines by day, the moon shines by night. The warrior shines in armor, the holy man shines in meditation. But the Buddha shines resplendent all day and all night. Because he has discarded evil, he is called a holy man. Because he is serene in conduct, he is called a recluse. And because he has renounced his impurities, he is called a renunciate. One should not strike a holy man, nor should a holy man, when struck, give way to anger. Shame on him who strikes a holy man, and more shame on him who gives way to anger. Nothing is better for a holy man than when he holds his mind back from what is endearing. To the extent the intent to harm wears away, to that extent does suffering subside. He who does no evil in deed, word and thought, who is restrained in these three ways — him do I call a holy man. Just as a brahman priest reveres his sacrificial fire, even so should one devoutly revere the person from whom one has learned the Dhamma taught by the Buddha. Not by matted hair, nor by lineage, nor by birth does one become a holy man. But he in whom truth and righteousness exist — he is pure, he is a holy man. What is the use of your matted hair, O witless man? What of your garment of antelope's hide? Within you is the tangle (of passion); only outwardly do you cleanse yourself. The person who wears a robe made of rags, who is lean, with veins showing all over the body, and who meditates alone in the forest — him do I call a holy man. I do not call him a holy man because of his lineage or high-born mother. If he is full of impeding attachments, he is just a supercilious man. But who is free from impediments and clinging — him do I call a holy man. He who, having cut off all fetters, trembles no more, who has overcome all attachments and is emancipated — him do I call a holy man. He who has cut off the thong (of hatred), the band (of craving), and the rope (of false views), together with the appurtenances (latent evil tendencies), he who has removed the crossbar (of ignorance) and is enlightened — him do I call a holy man. He who without resentment endures abuse, beating and punishment; whose power, real might, is patience — him do I call a holy man. He who is free from anger, is devout, virtuous, without craving, self-subdued and bears his final body — him do I call a holy man. Like water on a lotus leaf, or a mustard seed on the point of a needle, he who does not cling to sensual pleasures — him do I call a holy man. He who in this very life realizes for himself the end of suffering, who has laid aside the burden and become emancipated — him do I call a holy man. He who has profound knowledge, who is wise, skilled in discerning the right or wrong path, and has reached the highest goal — him do I call a holy man. He who holds aloof from householders and ascetics alike, and wanders about with no fixed abode and but few wants — him do I call a holy man. He who has renounced violence towards all living beings, weak or strong, who neither kills nor causes others to kill — him do I call a holy man. He who is friendly amidst the hostile, peaceful amidst the violent, and unattached amidst the attached — him do I call a holy man. He whose lust and hatred, pride and hypocrisy have fallen off like a mustard seed from the point of a needle — him do I call a holy man. He who utters gentle, instructive and truthful words, who imprecates none — him do I call a holy man. He who in this world takes nothing that is not given to him, be it long or short, small or big, good or bad — him do I call a holy man. He who wants nothing of either this world or the next, who is desire-free and emancipated — him do I call a holy man. He who has no attachment, who through perfect knowledge is free from doubts and has plunged into the Deathless — him do I call a holy man. He who in this world has transcended the ties of both merit and demerit, who is sorrowless, stainless and pure — him do I call a holy man. He, who, like the moon, is spotless and pure, serene and clear, who has destroyed the delight in existence — him do I call a holy man. He who, having traversed this miry, perilous and delusive round of existence, has crossed over and reached the other shore; who is meditative, calm, free from doubt, and, clinging to nothing, has attained to Nibbana — him do I call a holy man. He who, having abandoned sensual pleasures, has renounced the household life and become a homeless one; has destroyed both sensual desire and continued existence — him do I call a holy man. He who, having abandoned craving, has renounced the household life and become a homeless one, has destroyed both craving and continued existence — him do I call a holy man. He who, casting off human bonds and transcending heavenly ties, is wholly delivered of all bondages — him do I call a holy man. He who, having cast off likes and dislikes, has become tranquil, is rid of the substrata of existence and like a hero has conquered all the worlds — him do I call a holy man. He who in every way knows the death and rebirth of all beings, and is totally detached, blessed and enlightened — him do I call a holy man. He whose track no gods, no angels, no humans trace, the arahant who has destroyed all cankers — him do I call a holy man. He who clings to nothing of the past, present and future, who has no attachment and holds on to nothing — him do I call a holy man. He, the Noble, the Excellent, the Heroic, the Great Sage, the Conqueror, the Passionless, the Pure, the Enlightened one — him do I call a holy man. He who knows his former births, who sees heaven and hell, who has reached the end of births and attained to the perfection of insight, the sage who has reached the summit of spiritual excellence — him do I call a holy man.

Apparently, by the lifetime of the Buddha, the "monk" (Bhikkhu) and the life lived by such had become more of a career choice, and a "worldly" career at that. So here, the Buddha seeks to redefine the life lived in terms of character and spiritual qualities rather than ritual usage and social status. He who has no attachment whatsoever for the mind and body, who does not grieve for what he has not — he is truly called a monk. Cleary comments that attachment to mind and body - or as other translations say, "possessiveness towards names and forms" - means greed for status, title, reputation, power over others, etc. Empty this boat, O monk! Emptied, it will sail lightly The image of the "empty boat" has a long history.................in many Faiths and teachings.

The Monk Good is restraint over the eye; good is restraint over the ear; good is restraint over the nose; good is restraint over the tongue. Good is restraint in the body; good is restraint in speech; good is restraint in thought. Restraint everywhere is good. The monk restrained in every way is freed from all suffering. He who has control over his hands, feet and tongue; who is fully controlled, delights in inward development, is absorbed in meditation, keeps to himself and is contented — him do people call a monk. That monk who has control over his tongue, is moderate in speech, unassuming and who explains the Teaching in both letter and spirit — whatever he says is pleasing. The monk who abides in the Dhamma, delights in the Dhamma, meditates on the Dhamma, and bears the Dhamma well in mind — he does not fall away from the sublime Dhamma. One should not despise what one has received, nor envy the gains of others. The monk who envies the gains of others does not attain to meditative absorption. A monk who does not despise what he has received, even though it be little, who is pure in livelihood and unremitting in effort — him even the gods praise. He who has no attachment whatsoever for the mind and body, who does not grieve for what he has not — he is truly called a monk. The monk who abides in universal love and is deeply devoted to the Teaching of the Buddha attains the peace of Nibbana, the bliss of the cessation of all conditioned things. Empty this boat, O monk! Emptied, it will sail lightly. Rid of lust and hatred, you shall reach Nibbana. Cut off the five, abandon the five, and cultivate the five. The monk who has overcome the five bonds is called one who has crossed the flood. Meditate, O monk! Do not be heedless. Let not your mind whirl on sensual pleasures. Heedless, do not swallow a red-hot iron ball, lest you cry when burning, "O this is painful!" There is no meditative concentration for him who lacks insight, and no insight for him who lacks meditative concentration. He in whom are found both meditative concentration and insight, indeed, is close to Nibbana. The monk who has retired to a solitary abode and calmed his mind, who comprehends the Dhamma with insight, in him there arises a delight that transcends all human delights. Whenever he sees with insight the rise and fall of the aggregates, he is full of joy and happiness. To the discerning one this reflects the Deathless. Control of the senses, contentment, restraint according to the code of monastic discipline — these form the basis of holy life here for the wise monk. Let him associate with friends who are noble, energetic, and pure in life, let him be cordial and refined in conduct. Thus, full of joy, he will make an end of suffering. Just as the jasmine creeper sheds its withered flowers, even so, O monks, should you totally shed lust and hatred! The monk who is calm in body, calm in speech, calm in thought, well-composed and who has spewn out worldliness — he, truly, is called serene. By oneself one must censure oneself and scrutinize oneself. The self-guarded and mindful monk will always live in happiness. One is one's own protector, one is one's own refuge. Therefore, one should control oneself, even as a trader controls a noble steed. Full of joy, full of faith in the Teaching of the Buddha, the monk attains the Peaceful State, the bliss of cessation of conditioned things. That monk who while young devotes himself to the Teaching of the Buddha illumines this world like the moon freed from clouds.

Anyway, a further quote from Thomas Cleary's commentary on the current chapter, said in relation to the final few verses...... When the inner qualities developed in the course of the Lesser Journey develop to the point where they are inwardly registered by others, wherever they are to be found, then the Lesser Journey has subtly merged into the Greater Journey, in the most harmonious possible way. As has been said elsewhere....."by their fruits shall you know them."

Well, the Dhammapada was written from the perspective of what Cleary calls the "Lesser Journey", which relates to the purification of the "self", to "strength and sobriety of character". Speaking of the "greater journey" and the final destination, Cleary says that the soundness of the spiritual state of the traveller depend on the insight, serenity and forbearance acquired in the course of the lesser journey. I'm not really one for "stages" myself, or the constant introspection that it would seem to require. For me, it is more a world of trust and faith and mercy, towards reality-as-is and ourselves...............and others. "Lesser" and "greater" can take care of themselves, as well as any "cravings" I may or may not have. Of relevance though - or at least, so it seems to me - are the words the Ch'an master Pai-chang........ The words of the teachings all have three successive steps: the elementary, the intermediate, and the final good. At first, it is just necessary to teach people to develop a good mind. In the intermediate stage, they break through the good mind. The last stage is finally called really good. This is what is meant by the sayings, "An enlightening being is not an enlightening being, but is called an enlightening being; the truth is not truth, yet is not other than truth." Everything is like this. If, however, you teach only one stage, you will cause people to go to hell. If all three stages are taught at once, they'll go to hell on their own. This is not the work of a real teacher.

Cleary:- This current chapter contrasts the destructive effects of craving, infatuation, and rumination over things, contrasting their undesirable effects with the freedom that comes from insight, dispassion, and inner completeness. Regarding..... Everywhere these currents flow, and the creeper (of craving) sprouts and grows. Seeing that the creeper has sprung up, cut off its root with wisdom. The creeper, as Cleary says, is insidious suggestion, rooted in ignorance and craving, developing into bondage, aggression, and folly. "To sever it the moment it sprouts is what the Tao Te Ching refers to as doing what is difficult when it is still easy. This is the purpose of vigilance, so highly recommended by Buddha." There is more from Cleary, but others may have something to say?

Craving The craving of one given to heedless living grows like a creeper. Like the monkey seeking fruits in the forest, he leaps from life to life (tasting the fruit of his kamma). Whoever is overcome by this wretched and sticky craving, his sorrows grow like grass after the rains. But whoever overcomes this wretched craving, so difficult to overcome, from him sorrows fall away like water from a lotus leaf. This I say to you: Good luck to all assembled here! Dig up the root of craving, like one in search of the fragrant root of the birana grass. Let not Mara crush you again and again, as a flood crushes a reed. Just as a tree, though cut down, sprouts up again if its roots remain uncut and firm, even so, until the craving that lies dormant is rooted out, suffering springs up again and again. The misguided man in whom the thirty-six currents of craving strongly rush toward pleasurable objects, is swept away by the flood of his passionate thoughts. Everywhere these currents flow, and the creeper (of craving) sprouts and grows. Seeing that the creeper has sprung up, cut off its root with wisdom. Flowing in (from all objects) and watered by craving, feelings of pleasure arise in beings. Bent on pleasures and seeking enjoyment, these men fall prey to birth and decay. Beset by craving, people run about like an entrapped hare. Held fast by mental fetters, they come to suffering again and again for a long time. Beset by craving, people run about like an entrapped hare. Therefore, one who yearns to be passion-free should destroy his own craving. There is one who, turning away from desire (for household life) takes to the life of the forest (of a monk). But after being freed from the household, he runs back to it. Behold that man! Though freed, he runs back to that very bondage! That is not a strong fetter, the wise say, which is made of iron, wood or hemp. But the infatuation and longing for jewels and ornaments, children and wives — that, they say, is a far stronger fetter, which pulls one downward and, though seemingly loose, is hard to remove. This, too, the wise cut off. Giving up sensual pleasure, and without any longing, they renounce the world. Those who are lust-infatuated fall back into the swirling current (of samsara) like a spider on its self-spun web. This, too, the wise cut off. Without any longing, they abandon all suffering and renounce the world. Let go of the past, let go of the future, let go of the present, and cross over to the farther shore of existence. With mind wholly liberated, you shall come no more to birth and death. For a person tormented by evil thoughts, who is passion-dominated and given to the pursuit of pleasure, his craving steadily grows. He makes the fetter strong, indeed. He who delights in subduing evil thoughts, who meditates on the impurities and is ever mindful — it is he who will make an end of craving and rend asunder Mara's fetter. He who has reached the goal, is fearless, free from craving, passionless, and has plucked out the thorns of existence — for him this is the last body. He who is free from craving and attachment, is perfect in uncovering the true meaning of the Teaching, and knows the arrangement of the sacred texts in correct sequence — he, indeed, is the bearer of his final body. He is truly called the profoundly wise one, the great man. A victor am I over all, all have I known. Yet unattached am I to all that is conquered and known. Abandoning all, I am freed through the destruction of craving. Having thus directly comprehended all by myself, whom shall I call my teacher? The gift of Dhamma excels all gifts; the taste of the Dhamma excels all tastes; the delight in Dhamma excels all delights. The Craving-Freed vanquishes all suffering. Riches ruin only the foolish, not those in quest of the Beyond. By craving for riches the witless man ruins himself as well as others. Weeds are the bane of fields, lust is the bane of mankind. Therefore, what is offered to those free of lust yields abundant fruit. Weeds are the bane of fields, hatred is the bane of mankind. Therefore, what is offered to those free of hatred yields abundant fruit. Weeds are the bane of fields, delusion is the bane of mankind. Therefore, what is offered to those free of delusion yields abundant fruit. Weeds are the bane of fields, desire is the bane of mankind. Therefore, what is offered to those free of desire yields abundant fruit.

Thomas Cleary explains that the elephant is here being used as a symbol for the self.....which explains a lot.... Re........that sluggard undergoes rebirth again and again.....Cleary, avoiding any dogmatic assertion of the truth - or not - of rebirth/reincarnation, comments that this line means "to enter into a matrix of dependency again and again by the inertia of subconscious habits."

The Elephant As an elephant in the battlefield withstands arrows shot from bows all around, even so shall I endure abuse. There are many, indeed, who lack virtue. A tamed elephant is led into a crowd, and the king mounts a tamed elephant. Best among men is the subdued one who endures abuse. Excellent are well-trained mules, thoroughbred Sindhu horses and noble tusker elephants. But better still is the man who has subdued himself. Not by these mounts, however, would one go to the Untrodden Land (Nibbana), as one who is self-tamed goes by his own tamed and well-controlled mind. Musty during rut, the tusker named Dhanapalaka is uncontrollable. Held in captivity, the tusker does not touch a morsel, but only longingly calls to mind the elephant forest. When a man is sluggish and gluttonous, sleeping and rolling around in bed like a fat domestic pig, that sluggard undergoes rebirth again and again. Formerly this mind wandered about as it liked, where it wished and according to its pleasure, but now I shall thoroughly master it with wisdom as a mahout controls with his ankus an elephant in rut. Delight in heedfulness! Guard well your thoughts! Draw yourself out of this bog of evil, even as an elephant draws himself out of the mud. If for company you find a wise and prudent friend who leads a good life, you should, overcoming all impediments, keep his company joyously and mindfully. If for company you cannot find a wise and prudent friend who leads a good life, then, like a king who leaves behind a conquered kingdom, or like a lone elephant in the elephant forest, you should go your way alone. Better it is to live alone; there is no fellowship with a fool. Live alone and do no evil; be carefree like an elephant in the elephant forest. Good are friends when need arises; good is contentment with just what one has; good is merit when life is at an end, and good is the abandoning of all suffering (through Arahantship). In this world, good it is to serve one's mother, good it is to serve one's father, good it is to serve the monks, and good it is to serve the holy men. Good is virtue until life's end, good is faith that is steadfast, good is the acquisition of wisdom, and good is the avoidance of evil.

As I see it - or not - the visible world, complete with time, is how the eternal reality is made known to us as "selves". To be honest, to dip into any Philosophical work concerning the "nature of time" is to find myself well out of my depth. I know from personal experience just how elastic time is, how the duration of time during sex (for instance... ) seems far different than the duration of time when sitting in the dentists chair. And of how time itself seems to be so often non-existent when we are "lost" to ourselves in the love of others, or the love of things.

Yes Joseph, we see eye to eye! There seems much confusion between "eternal" understood as an endless duration of time, and what could be called the mystical understanding, where "eternal" is the deeper dimension of reality. "The present has no extension but intensity"....(Lama Anagarika Govinda) As I see it, there cannot help be confusion when the Word is taken to be "text" and not Person. When that Person, within time, spoke in Aramaic, words then recorded in Greek, than translated into Latin, then into English.

Given the current chapter title, "Hell", perhaps a few words are in order. The main difference between the various Buddhist hells and the hell of certain Christian teachings, is that for Buddhism hell is never eternal. Like all things, it falls under the teaching that all things are impermanent. For Buddhism, the suffering of hell is educative/redemptive, and never vengeful, nor the supposed imposition of "justice" by a wrathful deity. For Buddhism, it is inevitable that certain ways of living and thinking will bring suffering in their wake.... ...for someone who understands that a life prompted by selfish conditioning has to involve duhkha (suffering), such is inherent in any experience conditioned by karma......(Easwaran, "Dhammapada") Easwaran also mentions an ancient Indian story, of a kind ruler who upon death reaches his destination. After a while he remarks to one of his companions, "heaven is a far happier place than ever I anticipated", whereupon he was informed that he was actually in hell! He was told "people here are miserable, but in your presence their suffering turns to joy." Our mental state is paramount. Milton, from "Paradise Lost"... The mind is its own place, and in itself Can make a heaven hell or hell of heaven.

Cleary states that many of the verses in this chapter are "specifically presented as warnings to those inclined to zealotry in the name of spirituality."

Hell The liar goes to the state of woe; also he who, having done (wrong), says, "I did not do it." Men of base actions both, on departing they share the same destiny in the other world. There are many evil characters and uncontrolled men wearing the saffron robe. These wicked men will be born in states of woe because of their evil deeds. It would be better to swallow a red-hot iron ball, blazing like fire, than as an immoral and uncontrolled monk to eat the alms of the people. Four misfortunes befall the reckless man who consorts with another's wife: acquisition of demerit, disturbed sleep, ill-repute, and (rebirth in) states of woe. Such a man acquires demerit and an unhappy birth in the future. Brief is the pleasure of the frightened man and woman, and the king imposes heavy punishment. Hence, let no man consort with another's wife. Just as kusa grass wrongly handled cuts the hand, even so, a recluse's life wrongly lived drags one to states of woe. Any loose act, any corrupt observance, any life of questionable celibacy — none of these bear much fruit. If anything is to be done, let one do it with sustained vigor. A lax monastic life stirs up the dust of passions all the more. An evil deed is better left undone, for such a deed torments one afterwards. But a good deed is better done, doing which one repents not later. Just as a border city is closely guarded both within and without, even so, guard yourself. Do not let slip this opportunity (for spiritual growth). For those who let slip this opportunity grieve indeed when consigned to hell. Those who are ashamed of what they should not be ashamed of, and are not ashamed of what they should be ashamed of — upholding false views, they go to states of woe. Those who see something to fear where there is nothing to fear, and see nothing to fear where there is something to fear — upholding false views, they go to states of woe. Those who imagine evil where there is none, and do not see evil where it is — upholding false views, they go to states of woe. Those who discern the wrong as wrong and the right as right — upholding right views, they go to realms of bliss.