flowperson

Lots and lots of ice cream, or better yet gelato, and hold it in your mouth a loooooooong time before swallowing. Heal up and be better soon. flow....

Hey dere. Any you guys make hot dish, eh? flow....

I see this as representing some different concepts than purely the spiritual aspect that you see soma. I believe that when you look at this "saying" of Jesus it seems that he is talking about the intentional crossing of sacred boundaries, and what may be the consequences of that action. He says,"...but it is you who makes sin when you do the things that are like the nature of adultery...." Note that the author of this passage is careful to separate the act of adultery from the act of making sin. The making of the sin is the "doing the things" part. And this is further clarified in that the making of sin is related to doing things that are "like" the nature of adultery. To me the nature of adultery is not the physical acts involved in sexual license, rather the violation of the societal mores that constitute the strictures of a society. To me that means making intentional choices that result in the violating of the sacred vows and accompanying boundaries in personal relations that denotes one's territory inside of a marriage The roots of these concepts reside in the Sumerian and Babylonian ciivilizations. Whenever a wall, boundary structure, or foundation of a structure was laid, there were usually votive images of the prevalent G-d placed under the stone, brickwork, or gateposts. This seems to indicate how highly the ancients valued the beginnings of the creation of sacred structures. Also, sexual prostitution was a fixture of the religious practices of many of the societies of the region. Once each year every wife was required to place herself in the courtyard of the temple and offer herself for sale in prostitution to the first person who made an offer to her. Usually the offer was only for a token amount by rule. After this exchange and ensuing activiies, the wife went back to her home and marriage without recrimination. There were also priests and priestesses resident in the temples to provide instruction and sexual relief to members of the society in return for an appropriate offering. James Micheners book, The Source, provides a description of this practice in ancient Palestine. So I guess my interpretation of all this, since like it or not, the OT has its cultural roots in the societies of the ancient Near East, it is not necessarily the physical act that creates sin, or the missing of the mark; it is the volitional entering into activities that take an individual across a boundary that represents a moral stricture of a society that makes it a sinful act. You could also surmise that in crossing forbidden boundaries, society and individuals automatically open themselves up to the malignant forces of the cosmos that are there to cause suffering and destruction, as Fred so accurately identified them elsewhere here. flow....

There was recently a conference concerning exorcism at the Vatican. Wouldn't we have liked to be flies on the wall for that? Several interesting things have been said here concerning a process that may be of central conceptual concern to those of the Judeo- Christian faiths. It is self-evident from what you all have said that this is one of the first-last occurrences that Jesus spoke so mystically about, That this phenomenon actually occurs is of no doubt to me for I am convinced that I have observed it on many occasions. I believe that many others have also, but usually it doesn't register to people in the normal flow of life because most of us have been conditioned to not acknowledge its reality when it occurs since it is of a "supernatural" nature; and, in a logically oriented and science-based world such things are forbidden. But yet there is so much first-hand evidence for its pervasive existence. Physicists are currently actively exploring concepts of multi-dimensionality (realities betond the four dimensions with which we are familiar). Developments in this enterprise may open-up avenues of knowledge that could expose theories regarding possible "hiding places" for the malignant forces in the universe. Jesus and his disciples are thought to be the first coherent group of individuals that possesed the abilities to "cast-out demons". This is one of the central themes of the NT. It is a significant portion of the "good news"that has been passed on from that time. It is one of the traits, if not the most significant one, that set these people apart from all those who had preceeded them in history, and that enabled, at least in part, the founding of a new religion. In another thread, it was observed that under dualistic systems of belief the world and cosmos naturally include malignant and evil forces, and that they may move from place to place at will to work their destructive magic. Demons would be a worldly version of the inclusion of such dualistic and malignant forces in the affairs of people. But eliminating them periodically does not insure stability in civilizations' structures. They have the ability to always return despite our best efforts to cast them out, for they have the mysterious ability to spring out of the darkness and devour humanity's spirit in new and unexpected ways. In the OT there are many laws and proscibed ritualistic practices that Hebrews were directed to follow lest they be led into or fall into practices that would enable uncleanliness to be attached to their lives. "Mikvah" or ritual baths were a feature of early Hebrew temples. And even today, bathing facilities are a feature of Mormon temples. Muslims are obliged to wash their feet before entering holy places. Christians baptize to symbolically wash uncleanliness from the soul. Unclean spirits are thought, in many cultures, to be spirits that dwell in the darkness under the earth and that most conveniently leap into innocent people through their feet. There are several instances in the NT where ritual foot bathing is featured. These have carried forward into present day practices among the hierarchy of the Roman Catholic Church. The ancient Chinese practice of binding and shrinking womens' feet may also be related to this concept. Smaller feet would logically promote a diminished opportunity for evil to enter female family members. This is all really just a more westernized and categorized compendium of practices to ward-off soulful malignancies, really not so much removed from more ancient tribal practices that we consider superstitious and heathen in today's cultures that mainly functioned in ways to appease these malignant influences and shield community members from their effects. This all goes to show that things never really can be changed forever in the realities that we have been introduced into. And it is evident that this situation has not appreciably changed from the beginnings of human existence. It has only changed in context. The dualistic nature of reality can never change and will always do damage to G-d's creation on earth. The role of human beliefs have, however allowed us to devise practices to ameliorate or even delay and limit the effects of natural destruction. But it is always there whether we wish it to be or not. flow....

In my estimable opinion IHOP sucks in comparison to the Original Pancake Houses. If you have one nearby try their swedish and lingonberries. Crispy-thin and chewey, just like they're supposed to be. You won't be disappointed! Sausage links on the side accent the excellence of the sweets! Just kidding about IHOP. I've eaten worthwhile repasts there many times. flow....

I saw this while browsing news sites. What a horrible thing to have happen in front of a church congregation! But then it was in "Whacko". It definitely makes a case for battery operated mikes, but the article wasn't specific about what was used. There was also a "very" horrible tornado there in the 1930's if I'm not mistaken, not to mention the terrible David Koresh holocaust nearby. Some locations just don't seem to be conducive to peace and quiet. Isn't this also the home of Baylor University? flow....

des Your comments are right on. It is also known that the oldest language existent today, that of the bushmen people of the south of Africa, not only is made up of mostly consonant sounds, but includes seemingly wierd tongue clicks and whirring sounds that bring differing sorts of emphases to what is being communicated. Researchers in linguistics have determined that this language, among the Xhosha people, is likely closely related to a proto-language that arose in this part of the world about 100,000 years ago and then spread from there around the world in differing evolutionary versions over time. If you want to access a sample of what I'm talking about, rent the 80's movie, The Gods Must Be Crazy, a comedy that is very entertaining; and, if I'm not mistaken, won or at least was nominated for, awards in the foreign film category of the Academy Awards. flow....

Thinking like this you just might create some disorder in the universe. That's ok. Some are of the belief that truly creative acts and concepts are the ultimate form of symmetry breaking. It is definitely the road less traveled. Of course this is the essence of some of the great religions that were created before Christianity. Zoroastrianism (Persia) and Buddhism (India) would be prominent examples. Experts believe that they both had a profound influence upon the formative philosophies of the early Christian church. Pagels' book, Adam Eve and the Serpent also addresses some of the reasons that cosmic dualism was pretty much excluded from the Judeo-Christian systems. Spiritual philosophies expressed by the current Dalai Lama are also enlightening to a Buddhist viewpoint on suffering. My personal take is that Christianity mainly made dualism a more "abstract" subject of its philosophical foundations in order to facilitate trade and business activity. Remember, the cosmos is the light and the darkness together. The darkness is much more prevalent than the light. It could be that Star Wars is the best set of mythical materials to come along in about 3,000 years. Lucas knew what he was doing when he asked Joseph Campbell for advice on story lines. flow....

I'm a John D. MacDonald fan. I will ALWAYS reread a book of his when I find them in thrift stores. I've probably reread some of his Travis McGhee mysteries several times over. He's a former pro tight end and Vietnam vet-hero who lives in an ocean-going houseboat in Ft. Lauderdale that he won in a poker game. Travis earns his way, between periods of total slothfulness, by taking on salvage assignments. These usually involve undoing a wrong that the forces of darkness have imposed upon those who in Travis' opinion deserved better. He gets to keep a share of the assets he recovers in the process, which always seem to be substantial. He's always assisted by his friend Meyer who lives in the same marina. Meyer is a retired world-class economist who adds intellectual substance to the stories. All of MacDonald's McGhee book titles have a color name in the title,eg, A Tan and Sandy Silence. MacDonald's remaining family members, he passed in the late 80's, have steadfastly refused to sell the movie rights to the books (hooray for them!!!) When you go out to eat what kinds of foods do you usually seek out (excluding fast food)? flow....

The Hebrew language is of this nature. It only is written with consonants, with inflection marks included to denote vowel sounds. Also, the Sumerian-Babylonian-Chaldean unerstanding of the G-d word was Jah, pronounced Yawww. Interestingly this appelation is still used by our Rastafarian (mostly from Ethiopian culture) brothers and sisters in their religious services and practices, but they pronounce it in the english understanding, Ja. The word is used extensively in Reggae music of the old school. The Sumerian-Babylonian-Chaldean word usage is also that which is included in the Hebrew language dictionary that appears at the back of The Strong's Exhaustive Concordance of the Bible. OT reading becomes magically more understandable when you look up the words and trace their meanings in the ancient understandings. I believe the prohibition on the use of the name of G-d stems from early Hebrew rituals and practices since they believed that naming G-d was an impossibility because of his/her infinite nature. Ancient cultures believed that when you named something you established a degree of control over its destiny, even people. In S. American cultures this concept was very prevalent. Since G-d was/is all powerful and omnipotent, there was just no way to name him/her since mortals cannot control supernatural forces/ beings. The ancient Hebrews also believed that the male version of G-d had a female consort, and there are even ancient pottery fragments from about 1000 bce that show depictions of Jahweh and his consort in masks and headresses. By the way Jahweh was considered to be the G-d of the south of the holy land (nearest to Africa), and El was considered to be the deity of the north of the holy land (nearest to Europe and Asia). flow.....

Not having ever been a part of a fundamentalist group, I guess that I can't accurately identify with your situation, however, I was raised in an Italian environment, and the guilt thing was always hanging above our heads. I joke that this came about because the Italians are probably the most creative culture that we are familiar with since the classical period, and the Catholic Church and then the Mafia were created by those who wished to harness this creativity so that the culture could be controlled by fear and guilt. A balanced system in the society was then struck that sparked things like the Enlightenment, the Renaissance, and modern higher education. But I believe there is a lesson in the joke. On life's pathways, we are forced to navigate our own ways, alone. Sometimes after we are separated from our parents we get lucky and find companions who can share a part of the burdens with us and that love us for who and what we are. But when it comes to a relationship with God, we are on our own. I agree with Fred and Aletheia that the answers for each of us are in the biblical literature, and that they are not the same for everybody because we all carry different sorts of baggage with us from our pasts. But I believe that if you can approach the seeking of answers with an open mind and soul, you will find that gradually your burdens will lighten and God will willingly help you carry your load so that your life might attain a new balance. God go with you on your journey and adventure! flow.....

MOW I always enjoy the viewpoints expressed in your posts. I was especially intrigued by your descriptions above about the variability of the images and natures of Jesus. I am currently thinking alot about the things that evidently create fear and loathing in the eyes, brains and hearts of fundamentalists. This lack of tolerance is very un-christian on its face. It's almost as if it is painful to them to accept even the idea of homosexuality and its accompanying activities amid their memberships and certainly not in their ministerial positions, even though it is all around them in the real world. And, of course, they are not alone in this. Just the other day we had a brief series of comments regarding the variability among UMC congregations. There is also a case in the news regarding the defrocking of a UMC minister for being a partner in a lesbian relationship. The UMC regional council ruled in her favor for retaining her position, but that ruling was overturned by the UMC national governing council, again just the other day. Now this sort of thing is getting very serious in a lot of Christian sects that have always been considered middle-of-the-road and accepting. The schism in the Episcopal Church regarding the new Bishop in New Hampshire (?) last year is another example. The Catholic hierarchy has been consistently rigid lately in its rejection of any homosexual participation in its clergy, and recently announced a program to interview those who are studying to enter the priesthood on this issue. On the other hand the UCC national meeting last year affirmed the welcomed participation of homosexuals in the church's activities and clergy. The earliest descriptions and images of the supreme being in the roots of belief around the world point to the fact that the deity was more of an androgyne than anything else, neither male nor female, but portraying the traits and appearance of both genders. Another set of early beliefs point to the concept of the deity being able to magically shift his/her appearance and shape at will and instantaneously. There are references to this phenomenon in the Gospels. The name "shape shifter" was the term used in some discussions I witnessed and participated in among leading theologians (some of them conservatives) in the 80's. So I guess I'm saying (again) that the first page of the TCPC website is about asking questions and about searching together, not about finding consensus right away. There is little we can agree upon right now other than something's wrong and it needs to be addressed before any real progress into the future may be made. At the risk of repeating a suggestion I made on another thread some time ago, ( you know how much I dislike repetition!) I strongly suggest that some of you read Morton Smith's book, Jesus the Magician. It explores this aspect of Jesus' nature by focusing upon some obscure textual discoveries that Smith found regarding Jesus' encounter with the young man in the garden before he was betrayed and sacrificed. flow....

I hear what you're saying, but I just don't think that governmental intervention into the information web has created the problem we're facing. If We The People would actually take some responsibility for our minds, there is no government in the world that could stop us from creating a world worth living in. Where the government is at fault is in granting corporations practically unlimited freedom to opiate the minds of Americans to satisfy its own greed. (I guess I just imported this from another thread, but hey it fits!) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I thoroughly agree with you on this Fred. But there aren't many niches left for rugged individualists left in this interconnected world. The words of promise may still ring true in the documents drawn up by the founders of this great country, but I think that anyone who participates actively in today's world would agree that they can seldom apply in a full measure unless one possesses a reasonable amount of assets. What I contend is that the institutions that have traditionally encouraged the development of critical thinking individuals are slowly morphing into service sectors for corporate and governmental interests. The governmental intervention I'm talking about is currently being proposed for implementation, and it is this set of regulations that carry the potential to deliver critical impedences of the development and implementation of new knowledge by American research institutions. You are right about the slow poisioning of the well of freedom by corporate interests, and it all traces back to a 19th century supreme court decision granting corporations the same rights as individuals under the constitution. Corporations will always have more assets than individuals. This action only worsened the ability of indivuals to make a difference in the future, and it all seems to be coming to a head today. After reading the content on the web reference you provided, I also agree that both views are equivalently insidious, but they were fiction, although very prescient. I certainly see my share of the pleasure effects while participating as a small cog in the service-industrial complex that is sin city. But then when you consider all the crap that people have to put up with in their everyday lives elsewhere, I believe that it is a good thing that there is a place where they can go and do whatever as long as they have the time and money, and don't hurt anyone. This is also a large part of what it means to be human, enjoyment and pleasure, as long as it does not contol one's life. I'm really sorry to be so cynical and dark side about all this, but it is what I see developing before my eyes, and to see is to believe. What we really need are some new Jesus stories that ring true for us in the middle of the belief dilemma. I read the other day that Anne Rice is taking a stab at that, and no, it's not going to be a vampire story. flow....

At the risk of beating the proverbial dead horse for not taking us where we really wish to go , I would recommend this article as a further example of how the higher education edifice is being seriously distorted by big business. Amen, so be it. Nuff said. flow.... http://www.nytimes.com/2005/10/31/education/31college.html

C'mon Flow, your local bookstore is overflowing with "novel information." Nobody cares about censoring it because most of it is crap; but even the worthwhile stuff, most people would rather numb their brains on pulp anyway. We censor ourselves by our own laziness and apathy. There's no grand conspiracy to keep us from learning new things, we just don't feel like doing it. Have you read Postman's comparison of Orwell's 1984 to Huxley's Brave New World in Amusing Ourselves To Death? Very appropriate to this line of discussion. Perhaps the coolest observation in the whole thing is: "In 1984, Huxley added, people are controlled by inflicting pain. In Brave New World, they are controlled by inflicting pleasure." http://www.howhist.com/jfraser/foreword_fr..._ourselves_.htm <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I agree that we do censor ourselves with our laziness and apathy, however that is not the phenomenon that I'm talking about here. In this instance I'm talking about a purposeful governmental intervention in a process that has served civilization brilliantly for at least a century and a half, and that has engendered all sorts of "progress" for the collective good, and to an extent, bad. That we are discussing this in positive terms on an entirely novel medium of person-to-person understanding that can be simultaneously shared with potentially countless others in a timely manner, talks volumes about the good of the current status of things. But my point is that this open sharing of information model is being, in my opinion, critically threatened by a potential set of regulatory interventions that can only stifle our collective scientific progress and understanding in the long run. The end point of my argument is that this will also cut off new avenues of valid and new beliefs since the potential for the discovery of novel information about the world and universe around us and its history will be significantly limited in the process. I agree that the bookstores are filled with novel information. What I'm talking about is the choking-off of novel information WAY BEFORE the point that it even has the chance to appear in bookstores. Hmmmm, while I have observed many times in my life the slowing of progress through the infliction of pain from the outside, it would be a novel switch to experience the slowing of progress through the infliction of pleasure (from the inside?). While it might be said that we humans are basically pleasure-seeking meat machines, that tends to deny the purity that exists at the core of most of us that cries out in its longing to find some sort of unification as a meaningful portion of the eternal. Just maybe that's what sexual experiences are all about? flow....

I rise around 1:00 a.m. most days to go to work. While eating my cereal I watch whatever, which is, of course, the American way anymore. "Elimidate" would be my hands down choice for the most useless show on the "vast wasteland". I believe that it would definitely make Newton Minnow (JFK's chair of the FCC who originated the term) spin counterclockwise in his grave and come up with a new slogan just to address this genre. flow....

I liked Jimmy Swaggert. Very talented musically, and I understand that he was a contemporary and sometimes associate of Jerry Lee Lewis. His ability to cry during his sermons were a wonder to behold, But You didn't mention Jim Bakker. He and Tammy Faye were the dupesters of all dupesters. But then one shouldn't judge. Given enough time, the Lord seems to take care of public problems like that wthout our judgements. flow....

I believe that you have uncovered a kernel of truth at the center of all this. We do not know and are unable to determine if paths into the future of belief are valid because so much information about the beginnings of our faith have been obscured in the past, and in my opinion, repeatedly and purposefully so throughout the past 2,ooo years. But to throw aside 2,000 years of belief and just accept the proposal that all paths are valid would amount to religious anarchy, and we all know where that would lead, chaos. That's what evil has always been aiming to do to believers over time, divide and conquer. Any serious scholarly investigations into these hidden things, like the Jesus Seminar, are almost doomed from the get go because of orthodoxy's historical role of always steering the faithful to the familiar stories accepted in 325 a.d. That is the keystone of the dilemma because the gathering of the "wise" at Nicea "officially" determined through political and democratic consensus the "true" nature of the divine in the persona of the man Jesus. Constantine picked up that agreement and, with the help of his wife who officially designated the holy sites from the life of Jesus as known from the accepted stories, began to dilligently construct the world that has resulted in what we see and openly know today. The rest IS history. As I've said elsewhere here, whichever "white guy" wins the augument writes the history and runs the show. That's western culture and it is not going to change anytime soon. I have directed attention on this site to the continuing efforts of officialdom to limit the scope and dissemination of science research and its results for a reason. It is important that the average person understand how important science is to activities that might uncover enough information to officially alter the assumptions that have supported past history and lead us to the construction of possible new "validities". There are also plans cooking to allow federal agencies to have access to virtually all knowledge creation activities at American universities in order to determine who is sending what information to whom. It's going to cost an already financially strapped higher education system $20 billion plus to alter their information infrastructures to accomodate these unilateral regulations. They have been published by the government and are in the comment period at present before their adoption and implementation. Of course the primary reason being given for this move is to further bolster the protection of critical knowledge from being accessed by "terrorists". The real results of all this will be to further monitor and limit the sharing of novel information in order to determine if it represents some sort of "possible threat" to the status quo. The current approach is to annoy researchers who happen upon new things that fall into these categories of novelty such that they tend to engage in self-censorship in order to preserve their established positions and status.This approach, of course, is nothing new as there has been peer review of research publications for a long time now, but this would take the "big brothering" of the research enterprise to a whole new and more threatening level. The creation of new ideas and concepts is really a pretty lonely and tedious process, especially in the academic arena. When a "breakthrough" is obtained it is not usually generally known about until the creator(s) feel sure enough of its viability through replication of results by colleagues and repetetive verifications of the processes to obtain said results. A constantly "on" observational plug-in to this critical cycle of work would work to "chill" critical inputs into the final results of any novel discovery. I guess the bottom line is that we should probably adhere to traditiional belief forms to the extent that they apply to the circumstances we are led to deal with in life's ups and downs on a day-to-day basis. But as has been noted several times on this site, they just do not seem to apply very often these days. But to intervene too much and too often in the critical processes that may lead to new vistas of belief is simply too dangerous to the viable progress of humanity into the future. It's all about moving forward in time together and that will take a "magical" balancing act by officials who are too blinded by lots of comparatively trivial things to even begin to understand just how much is at stake here. flow....

Man, that would suck if God got a virus.... <{POST_SNAPBACK}> [/quote ] The last time I checked the literature, scientific opinion was that viruses are not officially life forms, either in real life or in cyberpace. They can certainlly mess up life and/or computing activities though. And besides, when one is talking about quantum computing, uncertainty and paradox reign supreme. This all goes back to the historical demonstrative example of Schrodinger's cat. A closed box is presented for observation. One is to determine whether the cat inside the box is alive or dead through direct observation. In the quantum world reality is always determined by what is observed in the moment. If you open the box and find that the cat is dead, you really cannot be entirely sure if it was dead before you opened the box, or if your act of opening the box and observing it was the cause of death. Or even if it was EVER alive before the experiment began. Time is infinitely divisible and exact timing of an event can never really be determined with total accuracy. There are the quick and there are the dead. So I guess my conclusion is that even God's quantum computer must navigate these uncertainties and pitfalls in it's neverending signalling to us from the future; and, even if a virus of some sort affected it, is the virus really there at all if God refuses to observe and acknowledge it? flow....

Think of it this way, and please, this is just my metaphysical attempt to blend knowledge about science and religion into something that makes sense to me. Complex systemic entities exist all around us, in fact our realities could be defined as the entirety of what we can observe and eventually understand. This includes cells, human beings, cities, social groups, animals, plants, weather systems, planetary systems, galaxies, etc., etc, These and much, much more are what make up our definition of nature. They have commonalities, or patterns that are shared over time. They deepen their inner complexity and continue through time to an extent. They begin by hidden processes we do not fully understand, but that is coming. They have physical boundaries. They have periods of growth and flowering. Then comes a period of waning and diminishment. Then the entity ceases to exist, and because of the principles of conservation of energy and the transformation of material substances, the new is mysteriously created again to begin new cycles of existence. In a human sense these observations of the activities of nature by some seers gave birth, forinstance, to the notions of reincarnation among those of the Bhuddist belief. And of course we Christians have beliefs centered around birth, death and rebirth. There are both positive and negative natural forces that impinge upon the entities throughout their journeys through time. In a primitive sense we could identify them generally as light and darkness. The former encourages growth and flowering, the latter retards growth, slowing it down and eventually causing the end of the entities' histories in time. We don't know much about light and darkness yet other than to say that light usually is emitted from the insides of entities, and that all entities are immersed in darkness wherever they are in the universe that we have knowledge of. Somehow the darkness smothers light. Light is the exception and darkness is the rule ( the ratio is about 5% to 95%) But somehow the forces are kept in dynamic balance throughout time. The Dead Sea Scrolls illuminate an ancient argument among the wise concerning the continual war between the sons of darkness and the sons of light. I suppose that you could generally associate God with the sons (I prefer children) of light and the devil with the children of darkness. As an example The Star Wars stories are incarnations of this most basic of patterns. It takes both basic elements to make up our realities, and we cannot escape either. We can only observe and surmise through the ages what this is all for and about. flow....

des The next time you visit our little valley of sin in S. Nevada (and I know you do), try Metro Pizza on E. Topicana. E. of Maryland Parkway on the S.side of the street. BURP!!! flow.....

I believe you've caught "scratch" by the neck, and, based upon your free will choices, have the ability to look at it and study it at your leisure. But do not be too slothful in your study. Elsewhere here the phenomenon has been described as "annoying Christians". This has gotten so bad inside of my head that when I read news articles about the culture wars, I cringe when the word "Christian(s)" is used in a generic sense when describing the conservative/evangelical brand. I have to restrain myself from screaming at the news medium I'm accessing " there are other, better kinds of people in the faith !". In another informative post here someone observed that if you choose to eat with the devil, you'd better have a very long spoon. A Canadian general who has lived many years in Uganda, including the times leading up to the genocide there, wrote a book recently called "Shaking Hands With the Devil". You may remember that churches were involved in the horrors there. The hesitancy of world authorities to take steps to deal with those events, like the events in Sierra Leone and in the Balkans until after the fact trials, shows that temporal power defers to supernatural power when it is evidently operating. I was always taught that if you choose to dance with the devil, he changes you, you don't change him. Little things in the course of your life can tip you off that he is near to you. Ever since I heard the feature about the Canadian general on NPR, some of my customers have insisted upon shaking hands with me at the end of our short transactions. It doesn't scare me and I've been shaking hands with lots of people for over sixty year, so I still do. But still, it all makes me wonder. Is the devil a mind reader? Does he listen to NPR also? What I do know is that he wants to alter my behaviors in and perceptions of the world towards fear and loathing. I actively choose EACH DAY not to do that for that would bring him one step closer to destroying all of the good things in the world that we, with God's assistance, have created. I choose to be a believer each day that I am allowed to walk around this earth and breath its air. As I described on another thread my approach to it all these days, I choose to believe that the devil probably has the second best quantum computer in the future, and he can use it to look back on peoples' live in the times we live in and then set out to screw them up in a vast number and variety of ways. East European Jews had a term for him "Malchimoovis". God's up there in the future also with a better quantum computer, and while He/She cannot prevent what the Malchimoovis programs and executes on his device (Time and space do not allow it. It's known as causality.), God has the ability to show us things that can save us if we have the presence of will and mind to see them and follow that way, after the bruisings, safely into the future. If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, it's probably THE duck. flow.....

WHOOOOOOOOOOOOOOEEEEEEEEEEEEAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHH indeed MOW. In case you're wondering, that was the Howard Dean Cheer. Even as a FORMER Cubs and baseball fan, my heart swells with joy at this wonderful championship for the SOX. Congratulations!!!!! flow....

I am of the belief that the TCPC experience is better delineated on the first page of the website than anywhere else. As I pointed out on another thread here, I believe that it is "very" important that the "creators" of this concept and discussion forum chose the number "eight" as the predominant symbolic element of the TCPC experience. Yes there are the eight points, but as we all know words are imprecise and scream out for interpretation even when they are used in any sort of context. But there are also eight corresponding symbols on the page some with ancient roots and some not. And then there is the eight-pointed blue star. It might not be widely known, but stars of this sort were predominant symbols designating "the Gods or God" in ancient Sumer (Shinar in the Bible, Iraq in modern times). Is this significant? What IS the significance of all that? Do they correspond to the "worded eight points" in some symbolic ways, or do they open up another avenue of cultural pursuit to lead us into our individual addressing of ultimate questions and transitory answers.? And what of the questions that lead us into the experience? The first question is very enticing and informative. It invites us to explore the experience extensively, and it implies that the "exploration" is the important thing, that we may well derive more "grace" merely by asking questions. It is not implied that we may find more "grace" in the finding of answers or "certainties". It is very important to study the first iteration of any novel process. In the study of the establishment and operation of complex systems and processes, it is always true that the final outcomes of the systems or processes are critically dependent upon the "initial conditions" of the complex being established. This all may seem to be some sort of analytical semantic exercise on my part and I apologize for that, but I believe that this sort of studying of the conceptual aspects of the TCPC experience is necessary before we as a group may hope to benefit from its outcomes. flow....